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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals) ‎

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Old
01-13-2013, 06:08 PM
  #976
LPH
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Any chance the mods would consider requiring all posts in the Trade board's Luongo thread to be news only, with accompanying links, and assigning opinion posts to the individual team's boards? There's too much stuff here to scan through.
twitter would be the best way to do that

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Old
01-13-2013, 06:09 PM
  #977
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Unless of course, it's not, you know, an albatross contract, and GMs can appreciate that they are getting a goaltender worth north of 6 million for just a 5.3 mil cap hit.
...For 9 more years.

Gillis is a used car salesman who is trying to sell a used BMW for 10K above bluebook and claims it's such a good deal because look! The monthly payments are kinda low! What they don't tell you, or choose not to mention, is that you're paying it off 3 times longer then you want to.

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01-13-2013, 06:09 PM
  #978
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Wasn't he signed as an assistant GM? so he technically wouldn't be making the same he would as a GM I would assume.
He signed on as full GM to a multi year deal.

If Nonis still had the interim title without the multi year deal I would agree with results being a factor. Unfortunately that isn't the case.

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01-13-2013, 06:11 PM
  #979
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Guessing this was mentioned upthread:

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/h...#ixzz2Htuz22vs

There's been a lot more interest in Roberto than people wanted to recognize because the contract was onerous or difficult,” Gillis said. “That has never been mentioned to me by one team. I know some people like to make a big deal of that but it's a very friendly contract for a lot of reasons. That's one of the reasons why in the new collective agreement there are penalties and you can't sign these types of contracts because they are favourable. So contract is not an issue.”

amazing- Gillis now claims the long-term contracts are pro-team and it was the players association that wanted to cap the length of these deals. Gillis apparently feels he can poop out of his mouth and not be called out on it.
The better you understand that contract, the less you'd focus on this aspect of the trade as a drawback. If people figure he's worth 5.3 million because that's what his cap hit is and then being hit with a penalty is outrageous, they're not understanding the contract.

There's two big things wrong with that kind of thinking. First is that 5.3 million for a player like Lu is actually low. He's proven and he's expected to put up great numbers going forward. For the caliber of goalie he is, his paid salary of 6.7 million more accurately puts him where he should be in terms of how his value stacks up with other elite goalies. This means that right off the bat, the team who has Lu is getting a discount on the cap hit. This discount on his cap was the product of his contract and while Vancouver initially benefited from cap-circumvention, so too can the team who acquires him. It's the whole reason they took out these contracts - they were getting by with having an unreasonably low cap hit. But now you can't make these kinds of deals, so if it weren't for the penalty, grandfathered in contracts like this would be in high demand.

Alright, so then there's the talk of the penalty. The penalty (which really, isn't a penalty so much as a repayment of the cap discount) would be a problem in that the team that acquired him would then be on the hook for cap hits after he retires, but then there's two advantages here. The first is that the penalty isn't effective now, but around 10 years from now when the cap is higher and more manageable. Right away, dealing with a cap penalty in a season with a larger cap means it's a smaller percentage of the overall cap.

The other benefit to it is that if he's first placed on LTIR and retires that way, there is no penalty. In this case, the cap discount received is never repaid in cap space and the team with Lu is off scott free. You can be sure that this is how it will play out with whichever team has Lu - if for no other reason than he has a good deal of respect for management that treats him honestly and fairly. He's a team first guy and there's no better example of that than how he's handling this current situation.

Considering that not only is it a discount, but that it's a discount that may not have to be repaid in cap, now you're seeing the benefit of the deal.

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01-13-2013, 06:12 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
...For 9 more years.

Gillis is a used car salesman who is trying to sell a used BMW for 10K above bluebook and claims it's such a good deal because look! The monthly payments are kinda low! What they don't tell you, or choose not to mention, is that you're paying it off 3 times longer then you want to.
No bias here folks, nope.

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01-13-2013, 06:12 PM
  #981
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He signed on as full GM to a multi year deal.

If Nonis still had the interim title without the multi year deal I would agree with results being a factor. Unfortunately that isn't the case.
So um....why was he shocked when burke was fired?

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01-13-2013, 06:13 PM
  #982
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No bias here folks, nope.
And the worst part is Goaltenders depreciate much faster then their skater counterpart.

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01-13-2013, 06:14 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
...For 9 more years.

Gillis is a used car salesman who is trying to sell a used BMW for 10K above bluebook and claims it's such a good deal because look! The monthly payments are kinda low! What they don't tell you, or choose not to mention, is that you're paying it off 3 times longer then you want to.

You forgot the part where the BMW will only accept a sale to 2-3 potential owners.

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01-13-2013, 06:14 PM
  #984
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He signed on as full GM to a multi year deal.

If Nonis still had the interim title without the multi year deal I would agree with results being a factor. Unfortunately that isn't the case.
Results are always a factor. Do a google search. Lots of GM's with long term deals get canned if they don't yield results. Eating Nonis' salary is chump change to MLSE. If he fails to perform he'll see the pressure mount. Especially if the team's biggest weakness again this year is goaltending. We'll see but I heard the exact same thing from TO fans about Burke.

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01-13-2013, 06:14 PM
  #985
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And the worst part is Goaltenders depreciate much faster then their skater counterpart.
? What are you basing that on?

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01-13-2013, 06:14 PM
  #986
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So um....why was he shocked when burke was fired?
Timing. Again, if results were the case he would have been fired in August.

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01-13-2013, 06:15 PM
  #987
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var-

i appreciate the time and thought that went into your reply. thank you.

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Old
01-13-2013, 06:15 PM
  #988
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And the worst part is Goaltenders depreciate much faster then their skater counterpart.
0.o

Brodeur(40), Thomas(39), Vokoun(36), Kiprusoff(36), Nabokov(37), all have something to say about that.

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01-13-2013, 06:15 PM
  #989
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The devil's in the details.

Sure, no one called up Gillis and says, "Listen, broski, that contract is total ass and I'm pretty upset about it. So with that said I'm officially lodging a concern with you about it."

But it affects the value perceived by those GMs. In Gillis' mind it's a non-issue, or he has done some mental gymnastics to convince himself it's actually a (lol) good contract. That is why we haven't seen any substantial leaks about offers or any interest besides Florida and the media-driven Toronto rumours. Because while Gillis believes the contract is awesome and the bees knees, other GMs who are inquiring about Luongo are immediately turned off from his demands because they have factored in his contract and they have determined it to be a significantly negative part of the package enough to stall and stagnate all negotiations between them. The mere fact no one has caved into Gillis' demands should be proof enough that his contract sucks. But there's a sucker born every minute so who knows.

It will be Gillis who will need to realize that his contract is an albatross.
Hmmmm, whose assessment of Luongo's contract should go with . . .
  1. Lawyer/hockey executive with decades of experience and back to back president's trophies, or
  2. rival internet fanboy named smackdaddy?

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01-13-2013, 06:15 PM
  #990
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Results are always a factor. Do a google search. Lots of GM's with long term deals get canned if they don't yiled results. Eatin Nonis' salary is chump change to MLSE. If he fails to perform he'll see the pressure mount. Especially if the team's biggest weakness again this year is goaltending. We'll see but I heard the exact same thing from TO fans about Burke.
So why not mention it during the conference? To avoid hurting Burkes feelings?

Not suggesting that I wouldn't have fired him for his performance.

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Old
01-13-2013, 06:16 PM
  #991
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Timing. Again, if results were the case he would have been fired in August.
And if personality was the reason he would have been canned last May.
Clearly results were the biggest factor as acknowledged by Burke.

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01-13-2013, 06:17 PM
  #992
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In any Edmonton deal I'd expect it to be based around Hemsky+.

.
Hemsky + a 1st does seem about right.

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Old
01-13-2013, 06:17 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
0.o

Brodeur(40), Thomas(39), Vokoun(36), Kiprusoff(36), Nabokov(37), all have something to say about that.
Or even a guy like Dwayne Roloson who was traded to the Oilers at age 37 for a 1st + a 3rd round pick... at the time with a .910 save % and a 3.00 GAA...

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01-13-2013, 06:18 PM
  #994
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So why not mention it during the conference? To avoid hurting Burkes feelings?
Burke specifically mentioned it. More than once. It's also the most logical reason. How many years do you think he should ahve got to show results?

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01-13-2013, 06:18 PM
  #995
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Hmmmm, whose assessment of Luongo's contract should go with . . .
  1. Lawyer/hockey executive with decades of experience and back to back president's trophies, or
  2. rival internet fanboy named smackdaddy?
Or..

3. Whoever tells you what you want to hear.

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01-13-2013, 06:18 PM
  #996
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And if personality was the reason he would have been canned last May.
Clearly results were the biggest factor as acknowledged by Burke.
Ownership deal was finalized in August. Any other bogus facts?

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Old
01-13-2013, 06:19 PM
  #997
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Unless of course, it's not, you know, an albatross contract, and GMs can appreciate that they are getting a goaltender worth north of 6 million for just a 5.3 mil cap hit.
I don't know about north of 6 million. For the past 12-18 months I have found Luongo to be brutal. I really think a team would be foolish\insane to give up assets to attain him and that contract.

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01-13-2013, 06:20 PM
  #998
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Teachers pension and Tanenbaum have no issue with Burke, Rogers and Bell do.

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Old
01-13-2013, 06:20 PM
  #999
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So when Luongo is 39 and still has 3 years remaining at a $5.2M cap hit, that's A-OK for Vancouver fans?

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01-13-2013, 06:21 PM
  #1000
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Still like an explanation on how goalies depreciate faster than players... if anything deals over the last 10 years are the opposite of that 'fact'...

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