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01-13-2013, 07:44 PM
  #901
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no question he will get signed

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01-13-2013, 07:46 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
I think you're standards are a bit warped a bit by the Habs' recent history of top PP point shots.

Subban was so horrible at it he was tied for 8th-15th in PP goals by defensemen. Not great, but above average for a team's first unit shot from the point.
Possibly, the guys who are around him though also put up more ES goals. 5 PP goals does not make you a #1 dman and his defensive game isn't off the charts. We could have MAB at a fraction of the price with similar PP results.

I don't like this situation one bit.

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01-13-2013, 07:50 PM
  #903
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Possibly, the guys who are around him though also put up more ES goals. 5 PP goals does not make you a #1 dman and his defensive game isn't off the charts. We could have MAB at a fraction of the price with similar PP results.

I don't like this situation one bit.
Sorry, I have to ask....are you serious?!?

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01-13-2013, 07:51 PM
  #904
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no, but he'll deserve his paycheck or not after 5 years. Hot commodity for a trade, or possible resign. 5 years is a long time, in 2 years time I could see him making 6 based on his play. I would take this deal solely for the price/years. heck, I would try 6 at 4.25 if possible.
The point is that Bergevin wants to sign him to a contract that will expire before he's UFA. This way he avoids loosing him for nothing, overpaying if Subban tests the marked (which always happen) and has a couple more years to evaluate his real worth and fit with the team. I aree with you its not about the money. More the term and the chance to properly evaluate him and his maturity. He behaves like an idiot sometimes, and now is an example of that. He's behaving like a uber superstar.

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01-13-2013, 07:54 PM
  #905
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PK is worth 4 Mil a year. I would give him the 5 year deal, or try for 4 year. He's young and very tradeable if things don't work out. He's shown he can play. Not a great year last year. Would have liked to see him contribute more offensively, but I good one prior to that.

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01-13-2013, 07:56 PM
  #906
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5 years/20 million? I'd give him that without hesitation.
Everyone would jump at that. So it can't be true.

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01-13-2013, 07:57 PM
  #907
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Same here. Not sure why the hesitation on the Habs part about the length. My problem with Subban would be the money, not the length...And 4 M$ per....that's great.
Brings him right to UFA though.

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01-13-2013, 08:06 PM
  #908
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Possibly, the guys who are around him though also put up more ES goals. 5 PP goals does not make you a #1 dman and his defensive game isn't off the charts. We could have MAB at a fraction of the price with similar PP results.

I don't like this situation one bit.
Sure MAB could get you that on the PP. He's a top level PP defenseman. Which is the only reason he's even in the NHL.

He was a clear number one on ES in both role and results and was a leader of one of the top PK in the league in addition to being pretty good on the powerplay. That's what makes him a number 1 D.

And the "only on a 15th place team argument" is a dud too. He played exactly the same role on half a 6th place team he was on the year before in the 2nd half.

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01-13-2013, 08:30 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Sure MAB could get you that on the PP. He's a top level PP defenseman. Which is the only reason he's even in the NHL.

He was a clear number one on ES in both role and results and was a leader of one of the top PK in the league in addition to being pretty good on the powerplay. That's what makes him a number 1 D.

And the "only on a 15th place team argument" is a dud too. He played exactly the same role on half a 6th place team he was on the year before in the 2nd half.
Yes, you are right. And this was in a "sophomore slump ' type of year. Subbais not being paid for what he did in the past. He's already been paid for that. Subban will
be paid for what the market thinks he can do in the future. My personnel guess, is
that PK makes it all worth while.

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01-13-2013, 08:34 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Sure MAB could get you that on the PP. He's a top level PP defenseman. Which is the only reason he's even in the NHL.

He was a clear number one on ES in both role and results and was a leader of one of the top PK in the league in addition to being pretty good on the powerplay. That's what makes him a number 1 D.

And the "only on a 15th place team argument" is a dud too. He played exactly the same role on half a 6th place team he was on the year before in the 2nd half.
The point with MAB is if people are pointing to Subbans PP work as why he is a #1 then they are wrong, his shot last year was nothing special.

Gorges had more to do with that PK than Subban yet no one calls him a #1.

Maybe it was a slump but right now Subban is a great 2nd pairing guy and an decent top pairing guy, he is not a #1. If he is making demands of managment all of this hype is going right to his head.

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01-13-2013, 09:20 PM
  #911
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If Subban gets a long-term deal on his contract, that would be a failure by Bergevin. Subban is an awesome defensemen but he has not reached his full potentiel, he deserves the same contract as Del Zotto. Don Meehan always makes GMs overpay tough.


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01-13-2013, 09:28 PM
  #912
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If Subban gets a long-term deal on his contract, that would be a failure by Bergevin. Subban is an awesome defensemen but he has not reached his full potentiel, he deserves the same contract as Del Zotto. Don Meehan always makes GMs overpay tough.
2M and change for Subban? Sure buddy..

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01-13-2013, 09:33 PM
  #913
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The point with MAB is if people are pointing to Subbans PP work as why he is a #1 then they are wrong, his shot last year was nothing special.

Gorges had more to do with that PK than Subban yet no one calls him a #1.

Maybe it was a slump but right now Subban is a great 2nd pairing guy and an decent top pairing guy, he is not a #1. If he is making demands of managment all of this hype is going right to his head.
The penalty kill last year suffered more from Subban's absence than Gorges. And he was fantastic there the year before when Gorges wasn't even in the lineup. Subban's presence turned the results of solid PK defenders in Gill to Gorges into a pairing that was amoungst the league's best.


They are pointing to his work in all three game states, his PP work was probably the weakest of the three. He's a difference maker on both special teams and the leader of a quality 1st pairing (which both Gill-Subban and Gorges-Subban have been). That's what makes him a number one defender, there are only about 15 defenseman in the league that meet that description. He's that rare beast, what ever he's doing he makes the team perform significantly better, and he's done it on both a good and a bad team.

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01-13-2013, 09:39 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
The point with MAB is if people are pointing to Subbans PP work as why he is a #1 then they are wrong, his shot last year was nothing special.

Gorges had more to do with that PK than Subban yet no one calls him a #1.

Maybe it was a slump but right now Subban is a great 2nd pairing guy and an decent top pairing guy, he is not a #1. If he is making demands of managment all of this hype is going right to his head.
The problem is he's the #1 guy on the team. You can blame our coaching staff and previous GMs for that. Some are trying to treat PK as if he's this unproven player..which is fine. But the last 2 years he has been our #1 dman. He's been the top point getter, most ice time, etc. He should be paid like a #1 dman. Team was assembled so poorly that Subban had to become the guy and IMO, that warrants a better salary than most are saying. The whole "He's coming off his ELC, pay him 2.5M" talk is irrelevant. His spot on the team is #1 dman...doesn't matter how young or unproven he is. He should be paid as a #1 D.

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01-14-2013, 12:43 AM
  #915
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The people saying Markov is better than Subban have no appreciation for the importance of defensive play.
Yes, scoring points is important... but so is preventing points scored by the other team.

what!? ... if one thing annoys me here, its the belief that PK subban is a great top 2 dman . You tell me how many of his dumb turnovers turned into goals against - you don't have enough fingers - .

Markov finds ''DA'' tape. ''DA'' tape. could be plekanec's tape, could be streit's tape, could be sourray's tape (good times) , could be kovalev's tape ... (also...great PP times) .... and that's just WITH the puck... because without it .... they don't even belong in the same cathegory. Markov owns him every day of the week. top players said countless times how hard it is to play against markov. All I hear ppl say is how subban should zip it.

I love subban, but I consider him a top 4 guy on an average team, so when people talk about how he's worth 6m per ... i get shivers down my spine. get 3.5m per or GTFO. Unless you are willing to EARN your salary, stay home. its a cap world people.

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01-14-2013, 06:00 AM
  #916
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what!? ... if one thing annoys me here, its the belief that PK subban is a great top 2 dman . You tell me how many of his dumb turnovers turned into goals against - you don't have enough fingers - .

Markov finds ''DA'' tape. ''DA'' tape. could be plekanec's tape, could be streit's tape, could be sourray's tape (good times) , could be kovalev's tape ... (also...great PP times) .... and that's just WITH the puck... because without it .... they don't even belong in the same cathegory. Markov owns him every day of the week. top players said countless times how hard it is to play against markov. All I hear ppl say is how subban should zip it.

I love subban, but I consider him a top 4 guy on an average team, so when people talk about how he's worth 6m per ... i get shivers down my spine. get 3.5m per or GTFO. Unless you are willing to EARN your salary, stay home. its a cap world people.
I think both guys are/were above average. Subban didn`t get to +9 with tough defensive matchups because he is poor defensively(on a team that was bad last year). Plus he was a key part of the PK. Sure has the occasional bad giveaway but so does every offensive/PM defenseman.

Markov used to get tough defensive matchups before he got hurt, he was also above average defensively. Hopefully he hasn't slipped in that area.

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01-14-2013, 06:32 AM
  #917
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
The problem is he's the #1 guy on the team. You can blame our coaching staff and previous GMs for that. Some are trying to treat PK as if he's this unproven player..which is fine. But the last 2 years he has been our #1 dman. He's been the top point getter, most ice time, etc. He should be paid like a #1 dman. Team was assembled so poorly that Subban had to become the guy and IMO, that warrants a better salary than most are saying. The whole "He's coming off his ELC, pay him 2.5M" talk is irrelevant. His spot on the team is #1 dman...doesn't matter how young or unproven he is. He should be paid as a #1 D.
Add Markov's injuries and that's why we're at this point.
When he becomes UFA eligible he'll be gone, I have no doubt about that.

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01-14-2013, 06:33 AM
  #918
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I think both guys are/were above average. Subban didn`t get to +9 with tough defensive matchups because he is poor defensively(on a team that was bad last year). Plus he was a key part of the PK. Sure has the occasional bad giveaway but so does every offensive/PM defenseman.

Markov used to get tough defensive matchups before he got hurt, he was also above average defensively. Hopefully he hasn't slipped in that area.
Yeah people are acting like PK and Markov are wildly overrated or something. If Markov can stay healthy and can skate anywhere near as good as he used to we have two elite D men back there.

And did people forget how great Gorges was too? He led the league in blocked shots by over 50 shots blocked! He was a plus 14 on a top pairing while playing for the 3rd worst team in the league for crying out loud. He rarely loses one on one battles. He played on one knee for years!!! He's a pure warrior. I can't believe some on here acting like he's the Darche of D men or something.

Our D is small but the way some are going on you'd think Traverse and Dykhuis were our top pairing or something. It's really not that bad.

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01-14-2013, 06:40 AM
  #919
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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post

I love subban, but I consider him a top 4 guy on an average team, so when people talk about how he's worth 6m per ... i get shivers down my spine. get 3.5m per or GTFO. Unless you are willing to EARN your salary, stay home. its a cap world people.
He was a number 2 dman, a hair behind Hamrlik, the year before when we were an above average 6th place team.

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01-14-2013, 06:59 AM
  #920
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Yeah people are acting like PK and Markov are wildly overrated or something. If Markov can stay healthy and can skate anywhere near as good as he used to we have two elite D men back there.

And did people forget how great Gorges was too? He led the league in blocked shots by over 50 shots blocked! He was a plus 14 on a top pairing while playing for the 3rd worst team in the league for crying out loud. He rarely loses one on one battles. He played on one knee for years!!! He's a pure warrior. I can't believe some on here acting like he's the Darche of D men or something.

Our D is small but the way some are going on you'd think Traverse and Dykhuis were our top pairing or something. It's really not that bad.
No it's not especially if Markov stays healthy and people seem to forget to factor in the forward lines impact. No one is going to look good when you're always bottled up in your own end.

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01-14-2013, 07:04 AM
  #921
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what!? ... if one thing annoys me here, its the belief that PK subban is a great top 2 dman . You tell me how many of his dumb turnovers turned into goals against - you don't have enough fingers - .

Markov finds ''DA'' tape. ''DA'' tape. could be plekanec's tape, could be streit's tape, could be sourray's tape (good times) , could be kovalev's tape ... (also...great PP times) .... and that's just WITH the puck... because without it .... they don't even belong in the same cathegory. Markov owns him every day of the week. top players said countless times how hard it is to play against markov. All I hear ppl say is how subban should zip it.

I love subban, but I consider him a top 4 guy on an average team, so when people talk about how he's worth 6m per ... i get shivers down my spine. get 3.5m per or GTFO. Unless you are willing to EARN your salary, stay home. its a cap world people.
He shouldn't get 6M but 3.5 or GTFO? Luckily you're not the GM. You're willing to lose PK for anything over 3.5?

Let me tell you something. Most contracts are not earned. PK should get more than 3.5 but less than 6.

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01-14-2013, 07:16 AM
  #922
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Bergevin clearly wants Subban to follow Price and MaxPac foot step. EL + 2 year contract and if after the 2y contract he shows the management he deserves a big contract, then sign him long time.

I'd like to see a 2 year contract worth 6M (3M per year) and if he does well afterwards, sign him long term.

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01-14-2013, 07:23 AM
  #923
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Add Markov's injuries and that's why we're at this point.
When he becomes UFA eligible he'll be gone, I have no doubt about that.

I have no doubt, when Subban is eligible for UFA, he will return and sign with the habs...

see how dumb that sounds. That is literally years away, and if that's the best we can do to get Subban playing, well so be it. He's more useful in the line-up than at home eating leftover turkey sandwiches.

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01-14-2013, 07:42 AM
  #924
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Pay DA man fast

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01-14-2013, 07:52 AM
  #925
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Who are these posters coming out of the woodworks and saying Subban isn't a #1 D? Subban = MAB?

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