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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-14-2013, 01:55 AM
  #326
A1LeafNation
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Smith won't make it to FA. None of the better goalies will. Is this like the plan to wait for Vokoun?


But the Leafs are free to take the chance. The only place Gillis is going to try to push Luongo to is FLA. The maple leafs are secondary destination and everyone knows this.
Please tell me what the lottery numbers are since you can read into the future.

Florida wants Luongo when they have Markstrom? If Florida wanted Luongo he would have been a Panther by now.

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01-14-2013, 01:55 AM
  #327
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I'll take the aging team that has their window to win a cup dwindling; to appease a franchise that has never won a cup; as being more desperate than a team looking to rebuild with youth, not giving a **** if they finish in a lottery spot.




Then why did Anselmi list performance as a factor in his interview with McCowan and Cox, directly following Burke's firing? If winning wasn't important in TOR, Burke would still have a job. His dismissal culminated from poor personality, poor record, and poor direction. One of those factors definitely involved the win/loss record.


It would be a lot more difficult for Anselmi to justify Burke's firing had he been backed by a winning record.


Here's the key fact here: Luongo is still in a Canucks uniform. That is undeniable proof that Gillis is not pressured by his circumstance. Meanwhile, Nonis just watched his boss get fired... you think he's not feeling pressure to win? Guess again. The hockey world knows he's got the bullseye on his back now. Welcome to the position of GM in TOR.

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01-14-2013, 01:55 AM
  #328
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Selling low isn't really anyone's "style". Selling high certainly hasn't been Gillis style either.
Low for low seems about right.

Samuelsson for Booth as an example.

Or buying low from others, Higgins, Lapierre and Pahlsson all being examples.

Most Canucks fans were screaming for Raymonds head last year, but instead of getting some marginal return, he held on to him, even though none of us expected his value to soar.

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01-14-2013, 01:57 AM
  #329
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Please tell me what the lottery numbers are since you can read into the future.
Why would anyone share winning numbers with a random stranger?

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01-14-2013, 01:57 AM
  #330
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Not by way of free agency. I'm thinking trade deadline activities. It's a bit late tonight for me to look at all of the rentals out there this year that will probably be available, but I can see Vancouver making a splash or two if they have room.

Gaunce, Schroeder, 1st round pick, Lack....lots of nice pieces there you guys can parlay into a couple veterans I'm sure.
So were makin cap space by trading luongo, so we can trade prospects (from arguably the weakest pool in the league) in the hopes of overpaying for a deadline rental?

Why not just move lu for pieces that make us a better team?

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01-14-2013, 01:58 AM
  #331
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Then why did Anselmi list performance as a factor in his interview with McCowan and Cox, directly following Burke's firing? If winning wasn't important in TOR, Burke would still have a job. His dismissal culminated from poor personality, poor record, and poor direction. One of those factors definitely involved the win/loss record.


It would be a lot more difficult for Anselmi to justify Burke's firing had he been backed by a winning record.


Here's the key fact here: Luongo is still in a Canucks uniform. That is undeniable proof that Gillis is not pressured by his circumstance. Meanwhile, Nonis just watched his boss get fired... you think he's not feeling pressure to win? Guess again. The hockey world knows he's got the bullseye on his back now. Welcome to the position of GM in TOR.
Nonis didn't have a draft, a trade deadline, or a July 1st as GM to call this team his own. There is no way Nonis is gonna be fired based on the roster Burke is responsible for.

This season is on Burke's watch not Nonis, he gets a free pass, so he is in no way under any pressure to make the playoffs.

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01-14-2013, 01:58 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Please tell me what the lottery numbers are since you can read into the future.

Florida wants Luongo when they have Markstrom? If Florida wanted Luongo he would have been a Panther by now.


FLA waited a _year_ to consummate the Booth trade with VAN. 1 full year. These two are patient trading partners, and they have a history of doing deals together. Tallon and Gillis will work something out eventually. Luongo being the much more important piece, it's no wonder it's taking more time.



Lottery numbers? To suggest Smith and Howard will sign with their _winning_ organizations than to test FA? Hardly a stretch. Like I said, weren't TOR fans predicting Vokoun would sign with them? Where did that go?

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01-14-2013, 01:59 AM
  #333
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Low for low seems about right.

Samuelsson for Booth as an example.

Or buying low from others, Higgins, Lapierre and Pahlsson all being examples.

Most Canucks fans were screaming for Raymonds head last year, but instead of getting some marginal return, he held on to him, even though none of us expected his value to soar.
Im betting gillis understands buying and selling all the time doesnt improve the value of your transactions overall.

Kinda like the stock market.

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01-14-2013, 02:00 AM
  #334
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So we surrender Luongo, who isn't worth spit because of his age and contract, then give up what little youth/depth we have for vets, who according to posts on this very page, aren't worth as much because they're not...youth...I'm sorry, I feel I've missed a step.
I understand how you feel, as a Leaf fan I wish I had these kinds of problems.

Luongo under normal circumstances would be worth a tremendous amount. The lack of a market for him due to his contract and the new CBA rules really sours that well.

Back to the meat of your post though, you have a team that is a Cup contender, youth is only there to serve one purpose for you, to allow you to win a cup. You guys should use those guys to keep the party going until the eventual rebuild is needed.

Gaunce for example is probably never going to make a difference for the Canucks. He's a great example of a player who can get an Eric Cole or something like that come deadline day.

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01-14-2013, 02:01 AM
  #335
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So were makin cap space by trading luongo, so we can trade prospects (from arguably the weakest pool in the league) in the hopes of overpaying for a deadline rental?

Why not just move lu for pieces that make us a better team?
Why not? How about because Luongo isn't what most of the teams want? If yu can't get what you want for Lu, move him for moveable assets.

Our deadline trades don't need to rentals.

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01-14-2013, 02:02 AM
  #336
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Do you think Luongo gets more valuable next summer? Next September?
Depends on this year now doesn't it?

Say Gardiner comes back from his concussion and gets another one this year

Is Toronto more open to trading him then? would Vancouver even want him now?

Say Schneider goes down with an injury and the Canucks ride Luongo to a cup,

I mean it's all hypothetical without knowing the facts or the situation.

For right now, the Canucks do not NEED to trade Luongo. there is no pressing need. Gillis can be as patient as he wants

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01-14-2013, 02:02 AM
  #337
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FLA waited a _year_ to consummate the Booth trade with VAN. 1 full year. These two are patient trading partners, and they have a history of doing deals together. Tallon and Gillis will work something out eventually. Luongo being the much more important piece, it's no wonder it's taking more time.
For Lu's sake, and to keep HNIC's early game enjoyable, I hope he goes to FLA.

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01-14-2013, 02:03 AM
  #338
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Im betting gillis understands buying and selling all the time doesnt improve the value of your transactions overall.

Kinda like the stock market.
Well, he has been rather reserved as a wheelin' and dealin' GM since he got here, and he seems to like free agency more then moving players (Naslund, Ohlund, Morrison, Salo, Mitchell vs. Sundin, Demitra, Samuelsson, Hamhuis, Garrison). Most of those guys had NTC's that he could have asked to waive, and his thing is to honour them if its possible. I don't think that it is possible long term, but I don't see him making a move rashly either.

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01-14-2013, 02:04 AM
  #339
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Depends on this year now doesn't it?

Say Gardiner comes back from his concussion and gets another one this year

Is Toronto more open to trading him then? would Vancouver even want him now?

Say Schneider goes down with an injury and the Canucks ride Luongo to a cup,

I mean it's all hypothetical without knowing the facts or the situation.

For right now, the Canucks do not NEED to trade Luongo. there is no pressing need. Gillis can be as patient as he wants
In realisticland do you think waiting a year sitting on the bench improves his value?

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01-14-2013, 02:05 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Or Gillis is having trouble selling Luongo to other teams.



You don't need to "sell" Luongo to anyone. He is a known, all-star level asset around the league. Every GM knows what Luongo brings. No, he's just waiting for the right deal, as is reasonable to assert.





Quote:
Nonis didn't have a draft, a trade deadline, or a July 1st as GM to call this team his own. There is no way Nonis is gonna be fired based on the roster Burke is responsible for.

This season is on Burke's watch not Nonis, he gets a free pass, so he is in no way under any pressure to make the playoffs.



Nonis isn't going to be fired, no. I never implied otherwise. But there is _NO_ free pass in hockey. He is under pressure to make the playoffs. Do you think that with the optics of firing his predecessor, and him subsequently following in his footsteps, that management isn't going to start looking in Nonis's direction should he miss the playoffs? Think again. He is on the clock starting now. Everything he does will be scrutinized, and if he misses the playoffs, that's his first black mark.



Don't forget, we here in VAN have seen this movie before. To have Burke exit, Nonis step in and continue to fail, and then get first a few years after. Let's see if he is able to change the script this time.

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01-14-2013, 02:06 AM
  #341
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To make it even worse, Quick and Lehtonen have already re-signed and Tim Thomas will owe the Bruins this year on his contract if he wishes to play next season. So really their is Backstrom, Howard and Smith and I'd say it's safe to assume that at least two of those guys will re-sign before July 1st.
How can Detroit let Howard walk? They had no one ready behind him. He walks new destination for Luongo.
Harding was just diagnosed with MS. That's a pretty serious disease. Think a team who just dropped 200 million on two contract allow their best and most proven goaltender walk? He'll I see Backstrom signing a short term lower cap hit deal to stay in Minny over moving to perennial bottom 5 team the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Smith? Really you're gonna put your eggs in the Tippet goalie basket? Sure to ahead and buy Smth for probably close if not more per year than Luongo's is signed for. Than there is still the fact he may be a Turco/Bryz Tippet influenced goaltender. You know. A trap team pumping his stats with lots of shots against but most from the side walls.


So please. Tell us how many elite starting goaltenders are on the market.


N before I hear Kippers name. I'll expect to see Feaster searching for another GM job again. Since he made it quite clear they aren't tanking

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01-14-2013, 02:06 AM
  #342
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So were makin cap space by trading luongo, so we can trade prospects (from arguably the weakest pool in the league) in the hopes of overpaying for a deadline rental?

Why not just move lu for pieces that make us a better team?
Look, the longer a team is a contender, the weaker their prospect pool is going to be. It's the way it works (with Detroit being the exception). Crap teams like mine stockpile young players while cup contenders stockpile veterans.

If the Leafs were a Cup contender (yeah who's kidding who right?) then my expectation is that my GM is not hanging on to 19 year olds who might be a 2nd line Center 5 years from now when my star players are retired. I want my GM to send that kid to a bottom feeder for a early to mid 30's player who might be the missing piece to winning the cup.

That is the point isn't it?

As far as Lu goes, I think the situation around him is really the problem here. I don't need to re-iterate why his return is going to be so low, I am not going to say anything that hasn't already been said. All I will say that it will have nothing to do with his skill, which is fantastic.

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01-14-2013, 02:06 AM
  #343
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Why not? How about because Luongo isn't what most of the teams want? If yu can't get what you want for Lu, move him for moveable assets.

Our deadline trades don't need to rentals.
I think Alberts and Kassian were the only players Gillis traded for at a deadline that had extra years on their contracts. Higgins, Lapierre and Pahlsson all were on their final year, and only Pahlsson left (to retire to his home country's league). I guess...Gragnani too, but he made too big a ruckus and was sent packing, and he was more a throw in.

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01-14-2013, 02:10 AM
  #344
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You don't need to "sell" Luongo to anyone. He is a known, all-star level asset around the league. Every GM knows what Luongo brings. No, he's just waiting for the right deal, as is reasonable to assert.










Nonis isn't going to be fired, no. I never implied otherwise. But there is _NO_ free pass in hockey. He is under pressure to make the playoffs. Do you think that with the optics of firing his predecessor, and him subsequently following in his footsteps, that management isn't going to start looking in Nonis's direction should he miss the playoffs? Think again. He is on the clock starting now. Everything he does will be scrutinized, and if he misses the playoffs, that's his first black mark.



Don't forget, we here in VAN have seen this movie before. To have Burke exit, Nonis step in and continue to fail, and then get first a few years after. Let's see if he is able to change the script this time.
LOL, Luongo, Kesler, Schneider, Sedin, Sedin, Bieksa, Burrows, Edler, etc. Guess who brought Vancouver's core in.

Anselmi said the plan is to continue building. The reason they kept the staff was because they liked the direction the Leafs are heading.

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01-14-2013, 02:11 AM
  #345
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In realisticland do you think waiting a year sitting on the bench improves his value?
I suppose there's always a possibility that there are more suitors during the off-season. That said, I think the interested parties are going to remain relatively the same.

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01-14-2013, 02:13 AM
  #346
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In realisticland do you think waiting a year sitting on the bench improves his value?
Did i lose you somewhere?

Even in realisticland, it depends on what happens this year.

If he sits on the bench THE WHOLE YEAR and NEVER plays a game his value stays the same.

If he plays in a back up role and plays like a normal Luongo, but more focused since he wants to get his playing time back his value goes up

If Schneider gets injured and he plays as a no 1 and wins the cup, his value skyrockets

All of these scenarios are pretty realistic.

Not one of these scenarios does he value actually go down.

So yes.

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01-14-2013, 02:14 AM
  #347
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Look, the longer a team is a contender, the weaker their prospect pool is going to be. It's the way it works (with Detroit being the exception). Crap teams like mine stockpile young players while cup contenders stockpile veterans.

If the Leafs were a Cup contender (yeah who's kidding who right?) then my expectation is that my GM is not hanging on to 19 year olds who might be a 2nd line Center 5 years from now when my star players are retired. I want my GM to send that kid to a bottom feeder for a early to mid 30's player who might be the missing piece to winning the cup.

That is the point isn't it?



Traditionally, you would be right. However, Gillis has been very vocal in following the DET model. Which means, doing a slow development on his prospects so as to _extend_ his team's competitive window.


Gillis goes about it another way: He trades an inordinate amount of top 90 picks. In his 4 official drafts, he's traded about 5-6 picks in this range. That has definitely impacted the strength of the pool. However, aside from the Hodgson for Kassian young player swap, I have yet to see him trade higher level prospects for vets. Essentially, he's trying to build the pipeline while competing. Easier said than done, but that's what he's trying.





Quote:
As far as Lu goes, I think the situation around him is really the problem here. I don't need to re-iterate why his return is going to be so low, I am not going to say anything that hasn't already been said. All I will say that it will have nothing to do with his skill, which is fantastic.



Situation is not ideal. However, getting back a crappy return would be even worse. So for now, he stays.

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01-14-2013, 02:14 AM
  #348
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Look, the longer a team is a contender, the weaker their prospect pool is going to be. It's the way it works (with Detroit being the exception). Crap teams like mine stockpile young players while cup contenders stockpile veterans.

If the Leafs were a Cup contender (yeah who's kidding who right?) then my expectation is that my GM is not hanging on to 19 year olds who might be a 2nd line Center 5 years from now when my star players are retired. I want my GM to send that kid to a bottom feeder for a early to mid 30's player who might be the missing piece to winning the cup.

That is the point isn't it?

As far as Lu goes, I think the situation around him is really the problem here. I don't need to re-iterate why his return is going to be so low, I am not going to say anything that hasn't already been said. All I will say that it will have nothing to do with his skill, which is fantastic.
If only this was true.

Your team has been terrible for years. Vancouver has been making the playoffs and contending.

Yet your prospect pool is no better than ours.

So how is it that you guys will become a contender again?

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01-14-2013, 02:14 AM
  #349
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Why not? How about because Luongo isn't what most of the teams want? If yu can't get what you want for Lu, move him for moveable assets.

Our deadline trades don't need to rentals.
That's an interesting strategy. Gillis could go for an overwhelming supply of depth and play it by ear as to whom sticks around by the deadline and move them out so that he can cherry pick.

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01-14-2013, 02:16 AM
  #350
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If only this was true.

Your team has been terrible for years. Vancouver has been making the playoffs and contending.

Yet your prospect pool is no better than ours?

So how is it that you guys will become a contender again?
I didn't say it always worked did I?

Let's not get into who's pool is better, that's just not productive to this discussion in any way whatsoever. You remember you asked me earlier about that homerism stuff? Head's up.

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