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The case for a 1-year surgical tank for the Habs

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01-14-2013, 06:37 AM
  #851
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Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
It would be more than that because we are trading our proven veterans now in order to tank for picks. Who's going to win games for us next year? If we decide to blood all these rookies into the team at the same time we will ensure ourselves high first rounders for years to come...Edmonton's got nothing on us.
We're unlikely to be trading all of our veterans this year there is simply not that much demand in the trade market. We should trade what we can. We can also acquire new veterans the same way we acquired Cole and Gionta.

In due course, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, etc will be stepping up and our rebuilding window will have closed. Right now they're not good enough to have an impact, so we still have options.

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01-14-2013, 07:03 AM
  #852
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Originally Posted by FireBergevin View Post
I've always said they should have 3 lotteries, nothing weighted:
one for 1st-5th
one for 6th-10th
one for 11th-14th

eh but what do I know
I've always said that there should be one lottery for all team having an equal chance at the top pick.

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01-14-2013, 07:08 AM
  #853
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
We're unlikely to be trading all of our veterans this year there is simply not that much demand in the trade market. We should trade what we can. We can also acquire new veterans the same way we acquired Cole and Gionta.

In due course, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, etc will be stepping up and our rebuilding window will have closed. Right now they're not good enough to have an impact, so we still have options.
I'm all for trading vets on expiring contracts to make way for young guys who are ready to step in. Thats a key part of rebuilding. I'm not supportive of trading everyone we can for picks with no thought to what kind of team we would ice just because some people have a stronger stomach for watching bad hockey and losing.

I think the GM position needs to be held to a higher standard. Its his job to balance present/future and to find deals (like paccioretty). Trading everyone for picks and then losing for years on end to stockpile talent is not a strategy I would expect of a professional hockey executive.

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01-14-2013, 07:12 AM
  #854
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
But it's not really years of losing. It's literally 48 games. With the right trades we could end up with 6 picks in the top 60, one of those being top 5. In a deep draft!

That means in the past 2 years we'd have done the rebuilding that some teams take 5 years to achieve.

Gally
Colberg
Hudon
Vail
Thrower
Top 5
1st(traded for)
2nd
2nd
2nd
2nd (traded for)

In basically a year and a half's worth of games. No brainer.
You don't think we have enough with:
Gally
Colberg
Hudon
Vail
Thrower
AND
1st
2nd
2nd
2nd?

Add and solid stable of young d-men and guys like Kristo and Leblanc and that's more than enough to build a good young core around. Like it or not, the team is already in good shape for the future.

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Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
I'm all for trading vets on expiring contracts to make way for young guys who are ready to step in. Thats a key part of rebuilding. I'm not supportive of trading everyone we can for picks with no thought to what kind of team we would ice just because some people have a stronger stomach for watching bad hockey and losing.

I think the GM position needs to be held to a higher standard. Its his job to balance present/future and to find deals (like paccioretty). Trading everyone for picks and then losing for years on end to stockpile talent is not a strategy I would expect of a professional hockey executive.
I couldn't have said it better.

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01-14-2013, 07:18 AM
  #855
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Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
I'm all for trading vets on expiring contracts to make way for young guys who are ready to step in. Thats a key part of rebuilding. I'm not supportive of trading everyone we can for picks with no thought to what kind of team we would ice just because some people have a stronger stomach for watching bad hockey and losing.

I think the GM position needs to be held to a higher standard. Its his job to balance present/future and to find deals (like paccioretty). Trading everyone for picks and then losing for years on end to stockpile talent is not a strategy I would expect of a professional hockey executive.
Would you rather lose years on end without stockpiling picks?

There are very few options now. We're a bad team -- we were the third worst team in the NHL last year in spite of several things going our way. We're not competing for the cup this year. We're not competing for the cup next year. It's easy to balance the present and the future as the future is all we have.

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01-14-2013, 07:52 AM
  #856
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This is probably a dumb question but is there a place we can see what draft picks NHL teams have?

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01-14-2013, 08:05 AM
  #857
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Originally Posted by Habster33 View Post
This is probably a dumb question but is there a place we can see what draft picks NHL teams have?
hockeydb.com keeps great records.

e.g.

google "2006 nhl entry draft hockeydb"

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01-14-2013, 08:14 AM
  #858
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
hockeydb.com keeps great records.

e.g.

google "2006 nhl entry draft hockeydb"
Thanks a lot mister!

I should've been more specific. I meant for upcoming drafts. My bad..

For example; What drafts picks MTL have for the 2013 draft

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01-14-2013, 08:38 AM
  #859
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Would you rather lose years on end without stockpiling picks?

There are very few options now. We're a bad team -- we were the third worst team in the NHL last year in spite of several things going our way. We're not competing for the cup this year. We're not competing for the cup next year. It's easy to balance the present and the future as the future is all we have.


-I think that we've already talked about this subject, but i'll add something today, its about an underrated aspect of the plan when you're trying to rebuild, and precisely, to stockpile picks, like you said, and like its often recommanded in such a scenario.

Like Krautso said, obviously, you need to sell at a decent price, dealing away veterans that are at the end of the line, sure, but still, you need to find an appropriate return.


Since the lockout, and the sample is quite enough i think, thats eight different drafts, only 8 good picks have been traded in 8 years and 7 trades. Thats one per year. Rebuilding, ok, but lets remember that valuable picks arent traded.

2nd : Kessel
8th : J. Staal, Carter
9th : Kessel, Vokoun
11th : Varlamov, Stewart/Shattenkirk
12th : Penner

Except the trade between Saint-Louis and Columbus (obviously, we cant know what will happen with Staal), every single one of the buyers end up having regrets about the trade he made.

And we have now a new rule with the draft, its probably going to be even harder to grab good picks along the one you may have.


Their value are largely overestimated, because of the potential of the players.
Teams may only have a very slight chance (10% ?) to find a gem past 10-12th spot, but they dont want another team to got it instead of them.
Assuming you're managing (difficult) to have three first rounders in the same year, you're not going to have bonus picks that are better than 20th.
And i think its quite clear that players, for instance, like Plekanec and Markov are better than 90% of the players picked there, even with a scout like Timmins. They'rein fact better than the 20th best player of 90% of the drafts...


For us, its easy to take the decisions, but the people involved are playing with their careers, and the safe route isnt synonymous to scorched earth or playing heads or tails.

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01-14-2013, 08:46 AM
  #860
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Selling off assets and treating this like a transition year?

That's my hope for the Leafs! Don't steal our idea

It looks like a great draft though, and honestly, if you don't have a shot at doing much in the playoffs, then why not sell off some veterans? It's not like any of them are franchise players. They could be replaced pretty easily via a mix of development of prospects + free agency.

I don't know your pending free agents / veterans as well as I know Toronto's though, so not entirely sure what the realistic expectations could be of trying to sell guys near the deadline.

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01-14-2013, 08:51 AM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Habster33 View Post
Thanks a lot mister!

I should've been more specific. I meant for upcoming drafts. My bad..

For example; What drafts picks MTL have for the 2013 draft
It doesn't get more complete than this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NHL_Entry_Draft

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01-14-2013, 08:54 AM
  #862
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Selling off assets and treating this like a transition year?

That's my hope for the Leafs! Don't steal our idea

It looks like a great draft though, and honestly, if you don't have a shot at doing much in the playoffs, then why not sell off some veterans? It's not like any of them are franchise players. They could be replaced pretty easily via a mix of development of prospects + free agency.

I don't know your pending free agents / veterans as well as I know Toronto's though, so not entirely sure what the realistic expectations could be of trying to sell guys near the deadline.
Because we already have plenty of 2nd round picks in the coming draft and we don't have any players of note that will be UFA's at season's end.

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01-14-2013, 09:02 AM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post


-I think that we've already talked about this subject, but i'll add something today, its about an underrated aspect of the plan when you're trying to rebuild, and precisely, to stockpile picks, like you said, and like its often recommanded in such a scenario.

Like Krautso said, obviously, you need to sell at a decent price, dealing away veterans that are at the end of the line, sure, but still, you need to find an appropriate return.


Since the lockout, and the sample is quite enough i think, thats eight different drafts, only 8 good picks have been traded in 8 years and 7 trades. Thats one per year. Rebuilding, ok, but lets remember that valuable picks arent traded.

2nd : Kessel
8th : J. Staal, Carter
9th : Kessel, Vokoun
11th : Varlamov, Stewart/Shattenkirk
12th : Penner

Except the trade between Saint-Louis and Columbus (obviously, we cant know what will happen with Staal), every single one of the buyers end up having regrets about the trade he made.

And we have now a new rule with the draft, its probably going to be even harder to grab good picks along the one you may have.


Their value are largely overestimated, because of the potential of the players.
Teams may only have a very slight chance (10% ?) to find a gem past 10-12th spot, but they dont want another team to got it instead of them.
Assuming you're managing (difficult) to have three first rounders in the same year, you're not going to have bonus picks that are better than 20th.
And i think its quite clear that players, for instance, like Plekanec and Markov are better than 90% of the players picked there, even with a scout like Timmins. They'rein fact better than the 20th best player of 90% of the drafts...


For us, its easy to take the decisions, but the people involved are playing with their careers, and the safe route isnt synonymous to scorched earth or playing heads or tails.
Let's say we traded Plekanec to Chicago for Terevainen, hypothetically.

What are the odds Teevainen will ever be better than Plekanec is right now? Maybe 25%, I don't know the correct odds, go ask an expert if you think it matters here.

However, the odds are much higher than 25% that Tervainen 2015-2018 will be better than Plekanec 2015-2018. That's what matters, because that's our contention window. Plekanec may be a good player in 2012-2014, but that is worthless to us, as we're not competing for the cup un that period.

Another example might be Andrei Markov to Washington for Filip Forsberg.

Finally, the reason picks are rarely traded is that teams with good players don't want to tank. Pittsburgh got a high pick for Jordan Staal and I'm sure they could have done so at any time in 2011 and in 2010 etc, but they wanted to keep him. Most teams want to keep their great players. Surgical tanking would be a novel strategy, as such it cannot be refuted by saying it hasn't been done before. "It hasn't been done before" is never a valid argument against innovation.

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01-14-2013, 09:04 AM
  #864
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Because we already have plenty of 2nd round picks in the coming draft and we don't have any players of note that will be UFA's at season's end.
Players don't need to be UFAs to be traded, that's a myth.

The myth is believed because teams are more willing to trade expiring contracts, but don't worry, a lot of teams would rather acquire players earlier.

Rick Nash, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Jordan Staal were all sold at a king's random in spite of not being expiring contracts.

Tomas Plekanec, Andrei Markov, and Eric Cole won't get the same return, but they'll get something.

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01-14-2013, 09:40 AM
  #865
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Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
Trading away all the talent in an effort to surgically tank is pretty much the definition of trying to lose.
We are coming off a season where we came in close to dead last. It's not about trying to lose, it's recognizing that you aren't good enough to win... there's a big difference and it's sometihng that you still don't seem to understand.

We're going to lose anyway dude. Best we can hope for is squeaking into the playoffs. We aren't going to win a cup this year or next. Accept it. Once you do that then maybe you'll understand the common sense of rebuilding.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
I'm all for good asset management but that doesn't mean always sacrificing the present for the future.
We NEVER sacrifice the present for the future. That's the problem.

Nobody is suggesting we have to "always do it" but we should be doing it NOW. We're not winning, we've got some good prospects to build with and we should build towards the future. If we'd done this a long time ago we wouldn't be in this situation. But we never do this.
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Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
We can rebuild without intentionally losing...intentionally losing and doing a fire-sale for draft picks just takes alot of the guess work out of it, although it is still no guaranteed plan for winning.
Stop with this "intentionally losing" crap. Nobody is suggesting this.

We're going to lose anyway. Accept it.
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
I've always said that there should be one lottery for all team having an equal chance at the top pick.
Terrible idea. Last year the Kings almost missed the playoffs. Imagine if they wound up with the first overall this season. The purpose of the draft is to make bad teams better. Sure there can be a lottery element to it but giving every team a shot? Why? Makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
I'm all for trading vets on expiring contracts to make way for young guys who are ready to step in. Thats a key part of rebuilding. I'm not supportive of trading everyone we can for picks with no thought to what kind of team we would ice just because some people have a stronger stomach for watching bad hockey and losing.
Wth do you mean "no thought to what kind of team we would ice"... Look at our team now. It's not going anywhere man. Maybe we make the playoffs but you can forget about a cup this year or next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
I think the GM position needs to be held to a higher standard. Its his job to balance present/future and to find deals (like paccioretty). Trading everyone for picks and then losing for years on end to stockpile talent is not a strategy I would expect of a professional hockey executive.
I think the GM should be held to a higher standard too. I don't think you understand his role though. It's his job to get us a cup. THAT's his freaking job. And if the present can't get it done then build for the future. If it means a season or two without the playoffs (which we missed last year anyway) so be it.

Just build towards a cup because that's what matters... not 8th place this year.

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Originally Posted by Habster33 View Post
This is probably a dumb question but is there a place we can see what draft picks NHL teams have?
Go to hockeyreference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post


-I think that we've already talked about this subject, but i'll add something today, its about an underrated aspect of the plan when you're trying to rebuild, and precisely, to stockpile picks, like you said, and like its often recommanded in such a scenario.

Like Krautso said, obviously, you need to sell at a decent price, dealing away veterans that are at the end of the line, sure, but still, you need to find an appropriate return.
There's always an opportunity for this. Last season we should've tried for Washington's extra pick. We had the resources to do this but the board here freaked out... we can't give up Pleks they said because then we'll lose.

Well, we lost anyway....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Since the lockout, and the sample is quite enough i think, thats eight different drafts, only 8 good picks have been traded in 8 years and 7 trades. Thats one per year. Rebuilding, ok, but lets remember that valuable picks arent traded.

2nd : Kessel
8th : J. Staal, Carter
9th : Kessel, Vokoun
11th : Varlamov, Stewart/Shattenkirk
12th : Penner

Except the trade between Saint-Louis and Columbus (obviously, we cant know what will happen with Staal), every single one of the buyers end up having regrets about the trade he made.

And we have now a new rule with the draft, its probably going to be even harder to grab good picks along the one you may have.
You can try to make up all the excuses you want to not do this. It's all bs. There's no reason why we can't go out and try to make these kinds of deals. If it doesn't work or if the return isn't there, fine. But we don't even try. We've gone for the Kaberles and Bourques instead of doing what we should've been doing....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Their value are largely overestimated, because of the potential of the players.
Teams may only have a very slight chance (10% ?) to find a gem past 10-12th spot, but they dont want another team to got it instead of them.
Assuming you're managing (difficult) to have three first rounders in the same year, you're not going to have bonus picks that are better than 20th.
And i think its quite clear that players, for instance, like Plekanec and Markov are better than 90% of the players picked there, even with a scout like Timmins. They'rein fact better than the 20th best player of 90% of the drafts...
Markov and Plecs aren't going to lead us to cups. They can help other teams out there who are already contenders though. You can't tell me that other clubs won't be interested in both these guys and wouldn't be willing to pay for them.

Just too bad we didn't trade Markov back when I suggested it years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
For us, its easy to take the decisions, but the people involved are playing with their careers, and the safe route isnt synonymous to scorched earth or playing heads or tails.
The earth is already scortched. We came in almost dead last this past season.

Coming off a terrible year, 48 game season, team that isn't a contender. It's a GREAT time to rebuild for us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Another example might be Andrei Markov to Washington for Filip Forsberg.
Last season I mentioned dealing him or Pleks or some other vet for that pick. People freaked out saying we can't do this.

I don't know about you, but I'd be a lot more excited now if we had that guy in our prospect pool to go along with what we already have. But no, 8th place was too important so...

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01-14-2013, 10:04 AM
  #866
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Last season I mentioned dealing him or Pleks or some other vet for that pick. People freaked out saying we can't do this.

I don't know about you, but I'd be a lot more excited now if we had that guy in our prospect pool to go along with what we already have. But no, 8th place was too important so...
I feel the same way. I like having Galchenyuk, but I know that Gretzky needed Messier, that Toews needed Kane, that Kopitar needed Brown, that Crosby needed Malkin and that Lemieux needed Jagr. Never mind the rest of those deep lineups.

If we get any of the top-5 players this year, or an equivalent player through trade, I think we're set. We can then focus on another difficult task: the rest of the team. Let's not trivialize that, nailing a good bottom nine forwards and bottom 4 dmen is very hard, but at least it can be done without top-5 picks. We can do it through good trades.and good UFA signings and good 2nd round draft picks

Do you think that Pittsburgh might be interested in Eric Cole?

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01-14-2013, 10:21 AM
  #867
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Never build on losing. Don't sale good and liked players for picks, "Potential" is most of the time only "potential".

No excuse, I like the idea!

Last year was bad. Some Players under played, and others has important injuries. That been said, "surviving" players need to see that as a opportunity. Not that next year mayl be better because of "potential" draft pick! That's lotery!

Win, get better, work more, give your 110%, over play. That's what I want to ear from the habs.

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01-14-2013, 10:25 AM
  #868
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Let's say we traded Plekanec to Chicago for Terevainen, hypothetically.

What are the odds Teevainen will ever be better than Plekanec is right now? Maybe 25%, I don't know the correct odds, go ask an expert if you think it matters here.

However, the odds are much higher than 25% that Tervainen 2015-2018 will be better than Plekanec 2015-2018. That's what matters, because that's our contention window. Plekanec may be a good player in 2012-2014, but that is worthless to us, as we're not competing for the cup un that period.

Another example might be Andrei Markov to Washington for Filip Forsberg.

Finally, the reason picks are rarely traded is that teams with good players don't want to tank. Pittsburgh got a high pick for Jordan Staal and I'm sure they could have done so at any time in 2011 and in 2010 etc, but they wanted to keep him. Most teams want to keep their great players. Surgical tanking would be a novel strategy, as such it cannot be refuted by saying it hasn't been done before. "It hasn't been done before" is never a valid argument against innovation.
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Players don't need to be UFAs to be traded, that's a myth.

The myth is believed because teams are more willing to trade expiring contracts, but don't worry, a lot of teams would rather acquire players earlier.

Rick Nash, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Jordan Staal were all sold at a king's random in spite of not being expiring contracts.

Tomas Plekanec, Andrei Markov, and Eric Cole won't get the same return, but they'll get something.

The point is that we dont know if Teravainen will be better in 2018 than Plekanec is in 2012.
If he is, you can be happy. If he's not, your best player in 2018 will be better than your best player in 2012, but the rest of the roster is worse, so the net gain is not necessarily that important.

Plekanec is not worthless because we are not in the right window.
You cant expect your team to win playoffs rounds just like that after several years of struggle in the bottom of the table, you have to do it gradually, rebuild or not, and you can easily flip a Plekanec for a player that is closer to the NHL-level, or simply, you can still trade him at some point for a player 4 years younger.

Teams dont want to tank because for 80% of them its a huge risk business-wise. And its a huge risk career-wise for 100% of the staff involved.

I'd say that you can still find great player for a low price. Carter's trade to LA was just horrible and there is always some odd trades that occur every year...after all, we perfectly know that you can end up with a McDonagh or a Gorges with an overrated player.

@Lafleurs Guy :
Is trading Plekanec for Washington's pick good enough ? Statistically and historically, at least, not really. Timmins may improve your chances, but thats still unlikely.
And talking about is fine, but we cant know if they think its an acceptable one.

Being on the right end of deals like Kessel's or Carter's is somewhere you cant reastically expect to be. In fact, in the majority of them, the lucky teams were forced to do so, by the cap or something else.

The cap is going down next year, and a lot of teams are trying to unload some players, the timing of a rebuild is not that optimal.
Anyway, i think everyone knows your point of view, but i just wanted to remind some facts around such an idea.

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01-14-2013, 10:25 AM
  #869
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Never build on losing.
I guess you're really upset about having Galchenyuk then.

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Originally Posted by Turianel View Post
Don't sale good and liked players for picks, "Potential" is most of the time only "potential".
Carey Price had potential, Max Paccioretty had potential. Funny thing about potential is that it usually gets realized when you're talking about 1st round picks. You may not get Ovechkin at 13th overall but you can build with it for the future.
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Originally Posted by Turianel View Post
No excuse, I like the idea!

Last year was bad. Some Players under played, and others has important injuries. That been said, "surviving" players need to see that has a opportunity. Not that next year will be better!

Win, get better, work more, give your 110%, over play. That's what I want to ear from the habs.
Nobody is suggesting that they give anything less than 100% dude.
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I feel the same way. I like having Galchenyuk, but I know that Gretzky needed Messier, that Toews needed Kane, that Kopitar needed Brown, that Crosby needed Malkin and that Lemieux needed Jagr. Never mind the rest of those deep lineups.

If we get any of the top-5 players this year, or an equivalent player through trade, I think we're set. We can then focus on another difficult task: the rest of the team. Let's not trivialize that, nailing a good bottom nine forwards and bottom 4 dmen is very hard, but at least it can be done without top-5 picks. We can do it through good trades.and good UFA signings and good 2nd round draft picks
If we manage to get one more top prospect we'll be in great, great shape going forward. If we got a bunch of prospects to go along with a top prospect... great news for us. NOW is the time to do it.
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Do you think that Pittsburgh might be interested in Eric Cole?
I think last year would've been a great time to deal him with the year he had. Hopefully he repeats and we can look for some teams that are looking to upgrade. Any team in the league would be interested in a guy who played the way he did last year.

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01-14-2013, 12:01 PM
  #870
Fozz
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Terrible idea. Last year the Kings almost missed the playoffs. Imagine if they wound up with the first overall this season. The purpose of the draft is to make bad teams better. Sure there can be a lottery element to it but giving every team a shot? Why? Makes no sense.
Because there is already a mechanism in place to create parity in the salary floor/cap.
I can't stand how poorly managed teams are rewarded with top picks while well structured teams that know how to build a winner aren't. The draft isn't the only way to make a team better and a lot of teams have proved that it in fact doesn't build winners on it's own.

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01-14-2013, 12:08 PM
  #871
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Would you rather lose years on end without stockpiling picks?

There are very few options now. We're a bad team -- we were the third worst team in the NHL last year in spite of several things going our way. We're not competing for the cup this year. We're not competing for the cup next year. It's easy to balance the present and the future as the future is all we have.
we were also roughly 13 points out of a playoff spot. a few breaks go our way and less injuries we coulda made the playoffs.seriously,go cheer for another team.how are there sooo many trolls on here??

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01-14-2013, 12:15 PM
  #872
Montreal Typical
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we were also roughly 13 points out of a playoff spot. a few breaks go our way and less injuries we coulda made the playoffs.seriously,go cheer for another team.how are there sooo many trolls on here??
It was 14 points (which is a lot) and that's mainly because of all the loser points that we got.

The team was brutal last year. Only Columbus was worse.

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01-14-2013, 12:31 PM
  #873
DAChampion
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Because there is already a mechanism in place to create parity in the salary floor/cap.
I can't stand how poorly managed teams are rewarded with top picks while well structured teams that know how to build a winner aren't. The draft isn't the only way to make a team better and a lot of teams have proved that it in fact doesn't build winners on it's own.
I agree with you.

However, I'm not playing pretend board of governors, I'm playing pretend GM So I'm assuming the rules are already in place.

But you are right, there should be a bit more randomness to the draft selections.

Not too much though, I recall a comment I read on the main boards. The reason Philly, NYR, Boston, etc shouldn't have a good shot at the 1st overall is because they always get the "1st overall" on July 1st, UFA day. It's where stars players choose to go all things being equal. The draft is one means for the other teams to acquire star players.

Finally, keep in mind that even in real life losing in the short-term is a valid strategy for winning in the long-term. A great example is buying stocks. If you buy stocks, somebody might tell you that you have the attitude of a loser for not spending more money on clothes or on a nicer home or a faster car, and that you're investing in something that has potential and no guarantees. But that's life. Everything is a risk in life, and in the real world people throw away battles to win the wars all the time.

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01-14-2013, 12:36 PM
  #874
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I guess you're really upset about having Galchenyuk then.

Carey Price had potential, Max Paccioretty had potential. Funny thing about potential is that it usually gets realized when you're talking about 1st round picks. You may not get Ovechkin at 13th overall but you can build with it for the future.

Nobody is suggesting that they give anything less than 100% dude.
.
I would rather loss be trying hard than planning on losing (surgical tank). There is a world of difference between the two.

I'm not upset at all with Price, Pach, subban, gal. Lets habs work on there assets while trying to win, what over the odds! Win logic bring winner! and wins. "C'est le mental"

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01-14-2013, 01:21 PM
  #875
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I am a Habs fan since 1996 and last year was the best year for me as a Habs fan. For the first time, the Habs did the first step in order to get better. I hope that this year will be as successful than last year was.

The 2013 draft is the most important event for the Habs in the last 15 years. With a great draft the Habs could rapidly became a legit Stanley cup contender for the next 8 years.

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