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Old
01-14-2013, 09:01 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i have no problem with picking a guy off the scrap heap. thats where tampa bay found marty st louis. some reactive activity by mcphee only allows that when an opportunity presents itself, the team has the flexibility to be open to it.

i am not sure what your definition of proactive might be. the caps have actively gone ou and acquired players to fill needs. ribeiro would be an example of that. knuble and poti and brouwer on off season's past.

is your issue that he hasnt made a big, breakdown the roster core trade or a big future for today trade like the opportunity to get pronger?
Real quick (I gotta head to the Post Office and beat a deadline)... a good example of us as reactive would be having a group of guys selected for their speed and skill, reduced to playing a grinding game, like we did last year.

One 'but'.... they did do a rather good job of it, which I credit mostly to Mr. Hunter.

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01-14-2013, 09:11 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Not to assume Fehr is (or is still) a slacker, but the Caps gave Wolski a contract. A history of slacking doesn't preclude taking a chance on a guy.
True enough. Maybe I'm giving management too much credit here, but I'd expect a team who had direct dealings with a player would be more wary of bringing that guy back than taking a chance on someone else's slacker. I.e., the belief that you're more likely to think that a change of scenery would light a fire under a guy on a new team than believe that a tiger could change his stripes.

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01-14-2013, 09:20 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
True enough. Maybe I'm giving management too much credit here, but I'd expect a team who had direct dealings with a player would be more wary of bringing that guy back than taking a chance on someone else's slacker. I.e., the belief that you're more likely to think that a change of scenery would light a fire under a guy on a new team than believe that a tiger could change his stripes.
Well, this is a sort of a change of scenery for Fehr. Totally new coaching staff, totally new dynamic.

FWIW my take is that there was something there (slacking or whatever) but they're taking a chance that the injuries, the trade, and being cut loose have helped him grow up/refocus/whatever and he'll be better the second time around. With his lockout performance as their evidence.

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01-14-2013, 09:39 AM
  #79
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I think the something about Fehr George didn't like, were probably injuries. It may be why I thought he was in Bruce's doghouse, maybe he was trying to limit his TOI to limit injury risk.

He was named in the famous Nagel unpleasantness, and I don't think that helped his cause. Even though we all know none of our players would ever do such a thing.

I do think its funny how his winter classic goals are often talked about.

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01-14-2013, 09:42 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
I wish people didn't dismiss Laich at defense out of hand. He has pretty much all the tools for it except the experience. The times he played he did not look out of place and everyone jokingly wished he was there instead of Schultz, jokingly because people are incapable of comprehending going outside the norm and would rather be sheep contently enslaved by the system. He's disciplined, relatively poised, skates well enough for a mobile DFD doesn't hesitate to block shots, could clear the crease. Even with no experience he's an upgrade on Schultz. We need that hole filled and if this works it would solve a huge, huge problem.

No one thought Byfuglien at defense would work and here we are. Burns is an all star. Markov was a C if people remember.

It's not like I'm suggesting we throw Ovechkin there. Though that might work too in a Byfuglienish way. Hmm...
It has nohing to do with being sheep, stop trying to insult people. Its immature.

Laich as a defenseman is something that you are dreaming up because it was used as an emergency measure. Nothing more, nothing less. This isnt Federov, or Byfuglien, or Burns. Just because something wasnt an abject failure when used out of necessity, doesnt mean it will work by rote.

Weren't you also the guy that wanted Semin to play D? This isnt a video game.

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01-14-2013, 09:47 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Something here is not the same? One is an Stanley Cup Finals Goalie. The other is a Winter Classic star. One season wonder vs one game wonder?

Is that the same?
Fehr's contributions to the Caps have gone a lot further than just one game.

In the 3 seasons prior to last year Fehr scored 43 goals in 182 regular season NHL games. Obviously staying healthy is an issue for the guy but when he plays he puts the puck in the net at a reasonable rate and doesn't require a whole lot of ice time or PP time to do that.

And at 27 he still has plenty of time to put his health issues behind him and possibly reach his potential. So unlike a lot of the 36ish old guys some have been bringing up there could be a long term reward for this incredibly small risk also.

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01-14-2013, 10:06 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i have no problem with picking a guy off the scrap heap. thats where tampa bay found marty st louis. some reactive activity by mcphee only allows that when an opportunity presents itself, the team has the flexibility to be open to it.

i am not sure what your definition of proactive might be. the caps have actively gone ou and acquired players to fill needs. ribeiro would be an example of that. knuble and poti and brouwer on off season's past.

is your issue that he hasnt made a big, breakdown the roster core trade or a big future for today trade like the opportunity to get pronger?
My issue is that this team isnt getting better. GMGM is the architect.

This team seems to be swinging downwards in my eyes. Peaked a few years ago, and now our "stars" are playing worse/hurt (Ovechkin, Backstrom, Green) or are gone (Semin). GMGM's grand plan of the Young Guns didnt work.

Yes HE is still here.

I would be happy with a new direction from this franchise. I *fully* understand that a new direction may mean worse results, so be careful what I wish for....right? However, this current direction simply will not = Stanley Cup. It just wont. George has had 15 swipes at the brass ring, and I think his insulation from Job Harm (read = getting fired) will always promote this "playoffs is good enough" mentality from him and this team.

I have seen 30 years of "playoffs is good enough" (1982 til 2012). And I am frankly tired of it.

Many should be as well, but it seems you are not, Tex?

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01-14-2013, 10:13 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Fehr's contributions to the Caps have gone a lot further than just one game.

In the 3 seasons prior to last year Fehr scored 43 goals in 182 regular season NHL games. Obviously staying healthy is an issue for the guy but when he plays he puts the puck in the net at a reasonable rate and doesn't require a whole lot of ice time or PP time to do that.

And at 27 he still has plenty of time to put his health issues behind him and possibly reach his potential. So unlike a lot of the 36ish old guys some have been bringing up there could be a long term reward for this incredibly small risk also.
the move reeks of sentimentality. GMGM again trying to prove his choices were correct, 10 years ago.

I honestly dont care that much, but this IS typical George, even if people dont want to see the big picture. Tex did nail that part in the other thread.

George is attempting to replace a 40 goals high cost scorer (Semin) with 2 used/problematic spare parts (Wolski and Fehr). That is George's MO, always has been.

And PLEASE do not tell me Ribeiro was also traded for to replace Semin. We needed a Ribeiro type FOR Semin, not in place of. Semin's 6m in salary has not been filled, and I dont believe it will be either....least not by our current GM.

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01-14-2013, 10:21 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Fehr's contributions to the Caps have gone a lot further than just one game.

In the 3 seasons prior to last year Fehr scored 43 goals in 182 regular season NHL games. Obviously staying healthy is an issue for the guy but when he plays he puts the puck in the net at a reasonable rate and doesn't require a whole lot of ice time or PP time to do that.

And at 27 he still has plenty of time to put his health issues behind him and possibly reach his potential. So unlike a lot of the 36ish old guys some have been bringing up there could be a long term reward for this incredibly small risk also.
43 in 182 ain't bad... just don't recall that many being "in the clutch" so to speak.

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01-14-2013, 10:26 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
My issue is that this team isnt getting better. GMGM is the architect.

This team seems to be swinging downwards in my eyes. Peaked a few years ago, and now our "stars" are playing worse/hurt (Ovechkin, Backstrom, Green) or are gone (Semin). GMGM's grand plan of the Young Guns didnt work.

Yes HE is still here.

I would be happy with a new direction from this franchise. I *fully* understand that a new direction may mean worse results, so be careful what I wish for....right? However, this current direction simply will not = Stanley Cup. It just wont. George has had 15 swipes at the brass ring, and I think his insulation from Job Harm (read = getting fired) will always promote this "playoffs is good enough" mentality from him and this team.

I have seen 30 years of "playoffs is good enough" (1982 til 2012). And I am frankly tired of it.

Many should be as well, but it seems you are not, Tex?
Like the post, but drop the underlined part: the 'trust me' element weakens it.

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01-14-2013, 10:26 AM
  #86
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He did score 2 of the goals in the winter classic...he didn't have much of an opportunity in the playoffs...not sure what else counts as clutch

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01-14-2013, 10:30 AM
  #87
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I don't really get the Fehr is lazy stuff. In the Montreal series, Fehr was one of three Caps forwards who played like he gave a damn. Not surprisingly, he was probably our third best forward in that series.

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01-14-2013, 10:31 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
the move reeks of sentimentality. GMGM again trying to prove his choices were correct, 10 years ago.

I honestly dont care that much, but this IS typical George, even if people dont want to see the big picture. Tex did nail that part in the other thread.

George is attempting to replace a 40 goals high cost scorer (Semin) with 2 used/problematic spare parts (Wolski and Fehr). That is George's MO, always has been.

And PLEASE do not tell me Ribeiro was also traded for to replace Semin. We needed a Ribeiro type FOR Semin, not in place of. Semin's 6m in salary has not been filled, and I dont believe it will be either....least not by our current GM.
Not sentimentality.... vanity. Trying to 'unring' the bell.

See where this goes?

GMGM: "If only the situation had not forced my hand, think of what would have happened..."

Bouton talks about things like this in his book "Ball Four"

Bouton: "Just once, I'd like to see a GM apply the argument he makes to players, to himself..."

Fictional GM: "Gee, none of the players I chose did well last year... guess I'm not as good at judging talent as I thought I was. I think I'll take a pay cut, myself."


And no, we'll never live to see that day, Mr. Bouton.

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01-14-2013, 10:31 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
Like the post, but drop the underlined part: the 'trust me' element weakens it.
has nothing to do with 'trust me'. 15 years results speak for themselves. What I believe isnt all that relevant.

What has happened, is relevant. Burke got fired for 4 years of problem in Toronto. Ted would probably have given him a raise and an extension as each year was an "improvement" from the last. By year 15, we might have that Cup

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01-14-2013, 10:33 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
He did score 2 of the goals in the winter classic...he didn't have much of an opportunity in the playoffs...not sure what else counts as clutch
My missus also brought up the Winter Classic. Gotta say, I'm grateful for his WC play.

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01-14-2013, 10:34 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
has nothing to do with 'trust me'. 15 years results speak for themselves. What I believe isnt all that relevant.

What has happened, is relevant. Burke got fired for 4 years of problem in Toronto. Ted would probably have given him a raise and an extension as each year was an "improvement" from the last. By year 15, we might have that Cup
Preaching to the choir, I agree. But the "it just won't", to me, weakens it.

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01-14-2013, 10:40 AM
  #92
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It has nohing to do with being sheep, stop trying to insult people. Its immature.

Laich as a defenseman is something that you are dreaming up because it was used as an emergency measure. Nothing more, nothing less. This isnt Federov, or Byfuglien, or Burns. Just because something wasnt an abject failure when used out of necessity, doesnt mean it will work by rote.

Weren't you also the guy that wanted Semin to play D? This isnt a video game.
All those guys were first "used out of necessity" too.

I look at this skillset and it looks like it would translate pretty well. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. In the few times he was thrown in there without any preparation he looked competent, at the very least clearly better than Schultz. The way he played it looked like he understood positioning from a defenseman's point of view, which is the #1 thing that most forwards are unable to do and the #1 obstacle to transitioning F to D. We have a huge hole next to Green. If it does translate it's certainly better than having a 4.5 million dollar 3rd line center who is about as good in the role as Eric Belanger minus the faceoffs, or play him as a top 6 powerforward who gets physically owned and doesn't intimidate a mouse. If it doesn't, we can slide him back up front and pretend we have a Jordan Staal caliber 3rd line center or an Erik Cole caliber 2nd line LW and that all is well with the world.

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01-14-2013, 10:45 AM
  #93
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Preaching to the choir, I agree. But the "it just won't", to me, weakens it.
perhaps I should send all of my posts to you first, for a proof read?

LOL, I kid, I kid. Dont take this too seriously

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01-14-2013, 10:50 AM
  #94
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perhaps I should send all of my posts to you first, for a proof read?

LOL, I kid, I kid. Dont take this too seriously
..

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01-14-2013, 10:52 AM
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don't really get the Fehr is lazy stuff. In the Montreal series...
I forgot how many of our posters were experts on hockey played in Canada.

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01-14-2013, 10:56 AM
  #96
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Fehr was never lazy. Perhaps people are subliminally confusing him with Steckel since they were both big, marginal and Steckel nuked Fehr's shoulder. He was also injured half the time here so maybe people are confusing that for laziness as well.

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01-14-2013, 11:00 AM
  #97
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i have always been a Fehr supporter.

i think with Oates as coach he could thrive, especially if he gets PP1 time. I don't see who on the Caps roster is a bigger threat as a shooter on PP1 as a RW.

that said, i just don't trust a guy like Fehr to hold up from injury. add in the fact this is a compressed schedule and i think it increases the odds he breaks down.

i hope i am wrong and i still love the Caps taking a chance on him.

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01-14-2013, 11:08 AM
  #98
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All those guys were first "used out of necessity" too.

I look at this skillset and it looks like it would translate pretty well. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. In the few times he was thrown in there without any preparation he looked competent, at the very least clearly better than Schultz. The way he played it looked like he understood positioning from a defenseman's point of view, which is the #1 thing that most forwards are unable to do and the #1 obstacle to transitioning F to D. We have a huge hole next to Green. If it does translate it's certainly better than having a 4.5 million dollar 3rd line center who is about as good in the role as Eric Belanger minus the faceoffs, or play him as a top 6 powerforward who gets physically owned and doesn't intimidate a mouse. If it doesn't, we can slide him back up front and pretend we have a Jordan Staal caliber 3rd line center or an Erik Cole caliber 2nd line LW and that all is well with the world.
There are 2 problems. One we are thin at top 4 D, from your perspective. Two we have an overpaid player in Laich, who doesnt sit well with you on the 3rd line.

You are trying to solve these two problems (that YOU see, btw, not necessarily everyone else) with this hail mary solution.

I dont think so.

Green can/should be playing with Hamrlik or possibly Poti....if Poti is actually healthy. Orlov will be on the 3rd pair with either Erskin, Schultz, or preferably Hamrlik/Poti.

In a perfect world:

Carlson-Alzner
Poti/Hamrlik-Green
Poti/Hamrlik-Orlov
Schultz-Erskine
Schilling-Hillen

10 deep...maybe not 10 good deep, but 10 deep nonetheless.

Laich should be playing 2nd line W with Ribeiro and Wolski/Fehr/Johansson/Brouwer (take your pick, depending on chemistry.

This of course, is all just *my* opinion, much like the above is yours.

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01-14-2013, 11:24 AM
  #99
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The Fehr signing is fine. No risk, good upside...that's a premium dumpster dive.

But Rid-Si is exactly right. GMGM has been making these ho-hum moves forever and the team is no closer to winning a Stanley Cup. Never say never...there is a .001% chance the Caps win the Cup in the next 3 years on the current course. For me, that's unacceptable. That's why I want McPhee gone. He's a good guy. He's just not the Hall of Fame GM that the lowly Washington Capitals franchise needs to build a top 5 NHL team.


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01-14-2013, 11:29 AM
  #100
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There are 2 problems. One we are thin at top 4 D, from your perspective. Two we have an overpaid player in Laich, who doesnt sit well with you on the 3rd line.

You are trying to solve these two problems (that YOU see, btw, not necessarily everyone else) with this hail mary solution.

I dont think so.

Green can/should be playing with Hamrlik or possibly Poti....if Poti is actually healthy. Orlov will be on the 3rd pair with either Erskin, Schultz, or preferably Hamrlik/Poti.

In a perfect world:

Carlson-Alzner
Poti/Hamrlik-Green
Poti/Hamrlik-Orlov
Schultz-Erskine
Schilling-Hillen

10 deep...maybe not 10 good deep, but 10 deep nonetheless.

Laich should be playing 2nd line W with Ribeiro and Wolski/Fehr/Johansson/Brouwer (take your pick, depending on chemistry.

This of course, is all just *my* opinion, much like the above is yours.
I don't think it's a hail mary solution. Throwing someone like Ribeiro there would be a hail mary solution.

I already stated some reasons why I think Laich could be converted more successfully than most. I'll state all of them. He's got good endurance. He's not afraid to play the body. He freely blocks shots. While he gets manhandled as a forward all he really needs as a D is to obstruct people like Alzner does. He has good positioning, he's defensively minded, he skates better than half our defensemen. He doesn't have a good first step or great top speed but he is pretty agile and has very consistent defensemanish skating. From what I've seen he's also disciplined enough to play conservative and slavishly err on the side of defense and low risk plays.

If he makes the transition I would bet he can play as well as a poor man's Gorges at least, which is all Green needs, since he's like the forward version of Gorges. Possibly better than a poor man's Gorges.

Laich doesn't sit well with me on the 3rd line because he doesn't have the qualities that make an excellent 3rd line center other than working hard and being defensive minded. He's not big. He's not fast. His faceoff ability is average to below average. He doesn't play with excessive snarl that great 3rd line centers have. Dave Bolland he is not, nowhere close. He's paid 4.5 per year to fill a role he'd be worse at it than McClemment, who at least has speed, snarl and above average faceoff ability.

If Poti can come back (which I don't believe, he's still in pain ffs) great. If not Hamrlik is a 39 year old guy who I believe should be on the 3rd pairing mentoring Orlov. I can see a Knuble like decline for him this year. He already had it once the year we got killed by Montreal.

If you consider this a 'hail mary' solution remember, Pens had a hail mary solution of playing 7 D and alternating Crosby and Malkin on the 4th line during the stanley cup round after we kneecapped Gonchar. Hawks had a hail mary solution of playing Byfuglien at forward, and the Thrashers subsequently had one of paying a ton for him and moving him back to defense. Hail mary solutions aren't half bad when you think them through.


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