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01-14-2013, 08:53 AM
  #926
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I cringed when I read Eklund and others talking about Doughty type numbers.

Good teams will have a Stepan, a Mcdonagh + a Callahan adding up to 7 M.

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01-14-2013, 08:56 AM
  #927
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Originally Posted by cjbhab View Post
I cringed when I read Eklund and others talking about Doughty type numbers.

Good teams will have a Stepan, a Mcdonagh + a Callahan adding up to 7 M.
What's the point of this comment with regards to Subban? Stepan and McDonagh are still on their ELC. There's no way those 3 Rangers will combine for 7 M in 2013-14 when those 2 need new contracts.

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01-14-2013, 09:35 AM
  #928
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I hope Toronto makes an offer sheet! We could get 4 1st rounders that would be in the top 5 for the next 4 years

If this did happen would we get Toronto's 1st in 2013?

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01-14-2013, 09:36 AM
  #929
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what!? ... if one thing annoys me here, its the belief that PK subban is a great top 2 dman . You tell me how many of his dumb turnovers turned into goals against - you don't have enough fingers - .

Markov finds ''DA'' tape. ''DA'' tape. could be plekanec's tape, could be streit's tape, could be sourray's tape (good times) , could be kovalev's tape ... (also...great PP times) .... and that's just WITH the puck... because without it .... they don't even belong in the same cathegory. Markov owns him every day of the week. top players said countless times how hard it is to play against markov. All I hear ppl say is how subban should zip it.

I love subban, but I consider him a top 4 guy on an average team, so when people talk about how he's worth 6m per ... i get shivers down my spine. get 3.5m per or GTFO. Unless you are willing to EARN your salary, stay home. its a cap world people.
Top 4 D on an average team?? I mean..really? You can say he's overrated here, but you don't have to underrate him just to make a point.

Yea, he made giveaways that lead to goals. They weren't as often as you think however because every time he made one it seemed the world collapsed and it's all people talked about.
But how many times did he prevent good chances from happening? He also contributed on 36 goals, either scoring or passing. Pretty sure that alone destroys the number of times his turnover ended up in our net.
PK took some unnecessary risks like trying to deke a player while being the last man back, but those are mistakes done from being young and wanting to do too much. He will only improve.
PK is a top 2 Dman, and could become a solid #1 as soon as this season if he keeps improving. The man is playing top minutes versus the best opposition, and he's part of the top units in both special teams, and despite making giveaways he is pretty solid in all three situations.
A top 4 Dman doesn't get this much ice time and do as good as PK did. He just doesn't.

As for the Markov you're describing, that's the one of 4years ago. We can only hope for him to get back to that, but it's still unsure just how good Markov will be.

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01-14-2013, 09:36 AM
  #930
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"...l'agent Don Meehan et la direction du Canadien sont très loin d'une entente ..."

http://www.lapresse.ca/sports/hockey...7_section_POS1

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01-14-2013, 09:39 AM
  #931
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"...l'agent Don Meehan et la direction du Canadien sont très loin d'une entente ..."

http://www.lapresse.ca/sports/hockey...7_section_POS1
I was sure it was going to be formality... I don't like this at all.

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01-14-2013, 09:44 AM
  #932
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I can't tell if Bergevin is a tanker or a bigot.

Last summer, he refused to go after Alexander Semin, a great player, the most talented of the 2012 UFA class, who was available on the cheap and is exactly what this team needs for the Plekanec line, a great goal scorer with excellent defensive play. I didn't know if Bergevin failed to sign Semin because he hates Russians or because he wants to tank.

Now, Bergevin is refusing to give Subban his well-deserved due -- approximately 6 million per year for 6 years. He thinks the players who was our no. 2 dman in 2010-2011 and our no. 1 dman in 2011-2012, who plays 24 minutes a game in all situations is at the same level as Price and Pacioretty were when they got their second contracts - lol !!!!! We might start the season without Subban. Does that make Bergevin a tanker or a bigot? Don't know.

Either way, without Subban, we have a very good shot at drafting Seth Jones.

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01-14-2013, 09:52 AM
  #933
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I can't tell if Bergevin is a tanker or a bigot.

Last summer, he refused to go after Alexander Semin, a great player, the most talented of the 2012 UFA class, who was available on the cheap and is exactly what this team needs for the Plekanec line, a great goal scorer with excellent defensive play. I didn't know if Bergevin failed to sign Semin because he hates Russians or because he wants to tank.

Now, Bergevin is refusing to give Subban his well-deserved due -- approximately 6 million per year for 6 years. He thinks the players who was our no. 2 dman in 2010-2011 and our no. 1 dman in 2011-2012, who plays 24 minutes a game in all situations is at the same level as Price and Pacioretty were when they got their second contracts - lol !!!!! We might start the season without Subban. Does that make Bergevin a tanker or a bigot? Don't know.

Either way, without Subban, we have a very good shot at drafting Seth Jones.
I wouldn't go as far to say he was available on the cheap considering the size of his contract (granted it is only 1 year). Too early to tell if its Bergevin or Meehan who is at fault imo, still got time but it is running out..

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01-14-2013, 09:54 AM
  #934
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I can't tell if Bergevin is a tanker or a bigot.

Last summer, he refused to go after Alexander Semin, a great player, the most talented of the 2012 UFA class, who was available on the cheap and is exactly what this team needs for the Plekanec line, a great goal scorer with excellent defensive play. I didn't know if Bergevin failed to sign Semin because he hates Russians or because he wants to tank.

Now, Bergevin is refusing to give Subban his well-deserved due -- approximately 6 million per year for 6 years. He thinks the players who was our no. 2 dman in 2010-2011 and our no. 1 dman in 2011-2012, who plays 24 minutes a game in all situations is at the same level as Price and Pacioretty were when they got their second contracts - lol !!!!! We might start the season without Subban. Does that make Bergevin a tanker or a bigot? Don't know.

Either way, without Subban, we have a very good shot at drafting Seth Jones.
Well deserved? He's played 2 years in the league. Price and Pacioretty both signed bridge contracts and got paid big time afterwards, what makes P.K. think he deserves more than them in this fashion?

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01-14-2013, 09:55 AM
  #935
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I wouldn't go as far to say he was available on the cheap considering the size of his contract (granted it is only 1 year). Too early to tell if its Bergevin or Meehan who is at fault imo, still got time but it is running out..
its always meehan.
Meehan is the best thing to happen to a player and the worst to a gm/team
I think Bergy is just standing pat and not letting meehan get his way.

I dont think it's about the habs not wanting PK and PK not wanting to stay, I think between team and player, they both want each other. The business aspect of it is whats holding this back

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Old
01-14-2013, 09:57 AM
  #936
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If Bergevin had made Semin his priority and signed him for 6-7 M, we wouldn't have been able to sign Subban to anything more than 3 M anyway considering Gomez counts in full this year. So we'd likely be in the same situation as we are now.


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Old
01-14-2013, 09:58 AM
  #937
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Well deserved? He's played 2 years in the league. Price and Pacioretty both signed bridge contracts and got paid big time afterwards, what makes P.K. think he deserves more than them in this fashion?
Subban has played fabulously for 2+ years.

Subban rocked in the 2009-2010 playoffs, when he replaced an injured Markov and helped us make the conference finals.

He was our no. 2 dman in 2010-2011 when we were a 6th place team that was a lucky bounce away from eliminating the eventual champions Bruins. He was only a little less useful than Hamrlik, very close to being our no. 1.

He was our no. 1 dman in 2011-2012, playing 24 minutes a night in all situations. He was a "+" player going up against the league's best on the third worst team in the league, he's that good.

Price and Pacioretty? They were potential busts when they were negotiating their second contracts. Subban is not a potential bust. Let's not talk about his ceiling, let's talk about his floor. His floor is no lower than a no. 2 dman on most good teams.

He is right up there with players ranging from Tyler Myers to John Carlson in deserving a good second contract.

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01-14-2013, 10:00 AM
  #938
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Subban is a great young D, and we got to get him signed. They're aren't many guys his age that can do what he can do offensively, while also being good defensively, while also providing a physical element. I'd be super content with 4.5 per.

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01-14-2013, 10:04 AM
  #939
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For what it's worth, apparently the Stars are expected to go down to the wire with Benn's contract too. Like Subban and the Habs, they're apparently not close on a deal either.

I don't know who Benn's agent is but I'm not surprised if both deals go until the very last minute. This is the time when all the hardline negotiating is going to get done.

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01-14-2013, 10:04 AM
  #940
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I can see PK's argument. Unlike Price and Pac, they weren't key players/stars for the team on their 2nd contract. PK is leaps and bounds ahead of them at the same time in their careers. The problem is if its true that Meehan is comparing him to Doughty. I'm one of the bigger PK backers, but I don't know if he is on Doughty's level. He has comprable numbers, but at the end of the day if the choice was made Doughty or PK then a majority of people would choose Doughty.

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01-14-2013, 10:06 AM
  #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I can't tell if Bergevin is a tanker or a bigot.

Last summer, he refused to go after Alexander Semin, a great player, the most talented of the 2012 UFA class, who was available on the cheap and is exactly what this team needs for the Plekanec line, a great goal scorer with excellent defensive play. I didn't know if Bergevin failed to sign Semin because he hates Russians or because he wants to tank.

Now, Bergevin is refusing to give Subban his well-deserved due -- approximately 6 million per year for 6 years. He thinks the players who was our no. 2 dman in 2010-2011 and our no. 1 dman in 2011-2012, who plays 24 minutes a game in all situations is at the same level as Price and Pacioretty were when they got their second contracts - lol !!!!! We might start the season without Subban. Does that make Bergevin a tanker or a bigot? Don't know.

Either way, without Subban, we have a very good shot at drafting Seth Jones.
Jesus that must be the most ludicrous thing I've ever read in my life. I can name roughly 700 players with better defensive play than Semin.

Anyway, you're jumping to hilarious conclusions and only embarassing yourself. I'll remind you that we still haven't played any games yet, which means Subban has missed exactly 0 games dueo this negotiation. So take it down a notch.

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01-14-2013, 10:10 AM
  #942
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Jesus that must be the most ludicrous thing I've ever read in my life. I can name roughly 700 players with better defensive play than Semin.

Anyway, you're jumping to hilarious conclusions and only embarassing yourself. I'll remind you that we still haven't played any games yet, which means Subban has missed exactly 0 games dueo this negotiation. So take it down a notch.
You cannot name 700 players that are better two-way players than Semin. I watched a lot of Washington games in the playoffs, he was quite good. There's a stereotype that he's a lazy Russian forward, but the stereotype is not valid.

Subban is missing some time in training camp. That's probably not good for the team.

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01-14-2013, 10:16 AM
  #943
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You cannot name 700 players that are better two-way players than Semin. I watched a lot of Washington games in the playoffs, he was quite good. There's a stereotype that he's a lazy Russian forward, but the stereotype is not valid.

Subban is missing some time in training camp. That's probably not good for the team.
It is incredibly valid. There is no one currently in the NHL who takes lazier penalties and who embodies the "heartless Russian" stereotype the way Semin does. He was fine when Boudreau was his coach and he could do whatever he wanted, and he was a disaster when Hunter came in and actually tried to implement a system. If you watched him in the playoffs I assume you also saw all 4 points he put up, which is what Bergevin was supposed to throw $7m at, lest he be branded a "bigot"?

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01-14-2013, 10:17 AM
  #944
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You cannot name 700 players that are better two-way players than Semin. I watched a lot of Washington games in the playoffs, he was quite good. There's a stereotype that he's a lazy Russian forward, but the stereotype is not valid.

Subban is missing some time in training camp. That's probably not good for the team.
The same Semin that was useless and benched in the playoffs the previous years. I wonder if it was because of his great 2 way play

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01-14-2013, 10:21 AM
  #945
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I find it comical that Semin and two way play are used in the same sentence.

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01-14-2013, 10:22 AM
  #946
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It is incredibly valid. There is no one currently in the NHL who takes lazier penalties and who embodies the "heartless Russian" stereotype the way Semin does. He was fine when Boudreau was his coach and he could do whatever he wanted, and he was a disaster when Hunter came in and actually tried to implement a system. If you watched him in the playoffs I assume you also saw all 4 points he put up, which is what Bergevin was supposed to throw $7m at, lest he be branded a "bigot"?
He put up 4 points specifically because he was in a defensive role.

You're criticising a player in a defensive role for not putting up 1st line production. You sound like patofqc. Like Plekanec, we know what Semin can do when he's in an offensive role.

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01-14-2013, 10:28 AM
  #947
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He put up 4 points specifically because he was in a defensive role.

You're criticising a player in a defensive role for not putting up 1st line production. You sound like patofqc. Like Plekanec, we know what Semin can do when he's in an offensive role.
You were a ferocious pro-player during the whole lockout.... And now you're the ultimate pro-Subban at all cost. Can you examine for once both sides of the medal ?

Subban has only two seasons under his belt and doesn't deserve. - for the moment- a fat long contract. Is it so hard to understand ?

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01-14-2013, 10:30 AM
  #948
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I am glad Bergevin is standing up to Meehan. Don has been making a mint off the Habs for years. PK does not really have a lot of options, no one is going to offersheet him for what they would be giving up for the Habs not to match.

PK is vital to this teams success and I see him being as good as Doughty but not quite yet. He should just sign the short bridge deal now and cash in when he has proven he is an undisputed number one and all star.

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01-14-2013, 10:34 AM
  #949
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I am glad Bergevin is standing up to Meehan. Don has been making a mint off the Habs for years. PK does not really have a lot of options, no one is going to offersheet him for what they would be giving up for the Habs not to match.

PK is vital to this teams success and I see him being as good as Doughty but not quite yet. He should just sign the short bridge deal now and cash in when he has proven he is an undisputed number one and all star.
I am pretty sure PK is banging his fits and hands in the wall waiting to go back on ice, especially after such a long lockout. Is Meehan doing what's best for his client ?

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01-14-2013, 10:34 AM
  #950
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"...l'agent Don Meehan et la direction du Canadien sont très loin d'une entente ..."

http://www.lapresse.ca/sports/hockey...7_section_POS1
Labbe is an idiot. Even MB said openly last night that they were close. What a farce this guy is.

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