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F Chris Kreider (2009, 19th overall, NY Rangers) II -"What's the big deal," you ask?

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Old
01-13-2013, 01:07 PM
  #551
McDonaghisGod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
Big deal with Kreider?
If we go by history, the New York Rangers are notorious for hyping their prospects to maximum here on HF boards.
Some of them fullfill their hype, others bust...Nothing new here I suppose.
Gilroy, Montoya, Grachev were hyped to a ridiculous level as were Del Zotto, Girrardi, M. Staal.

Will see where this story ends...
Stay tuned
Girardi was an undrafted free agent who came out of nowhere. I highly doubt he was hyped to ridiculous levels.

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01-13-2013, 07:55 PM
  #552
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Atkinson is a good prospect but you cant compare his stats to Kreider's until Kreider plays some regular season games.

18 games against three playoff teams is a tad tougher in terms of production than nine games to close out a regular season, even if some of those teams are fighting to get into the playoffs.

The quality of competition is better in the postseason. This shouldn't be debatable.

Atkinson can score 70 points next year for all I care. He plays for Columbus. If Atkinson played on the Rangers he'd see Zuccarello ice time if he was lucky. That's not a knock on Atkinson. It's just the reality of the Rangers style of play and what they look for in players.

PAPsmear is the perfect example. On the Rangers he was a one-dimensional liability who played 10 mins a game. He goes to the Isles, plays on a top line and gets a four year contract.

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Old
01-13-2013, 09:01 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Atkinson is a good prospect but you cant compare his stats to Kreider's until Kreider plays some regular season games.

18 games against three playoff teams is a tad tougher in terms of production than nine games to close out a regular season, even if some of those teams are fighting to get into the playoffs.

The quality of competition is better in the postseason. This shouldn't be debatable.

Atkinson can score 70 points next year for all I care. He plays for Columbus. If Atkinson played on the Rangers he'd see Zuccarello ice time if he was lucky. That's not a knock on Atkinson. It's just the reality of the Rangers style of play and what they look for in players.

PAPsmear is the perfect example. On the Rangers he was a one-dimensional liability who played 10 mins a game. He goes to the Isles, plays on a top line and gets a four year contract.
I will give you that he needs to play regular season games before we can really compare them.

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01-14-2013, 10:42 AM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Callys Chicken Parm View Post
And there's a reason why they are the only two you can think of. It doesn't happen often because most players are not worthy of the task. Tony Amonte is another one. He was pretty good, right?

He, along with Hagelin, is one of the fastest players in the league, and he's 6'3 230 lbs. He also has a wicked shot and is very physical. The only thing he is lacking in is hockey sense. He's not always making smart plays, but that can be taught. He has every tool that a hockey player could dream of having.
not sure that's true.

You basically described Kilger here. Not that Kilger was a bad player, but he could have been so much more.

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01-14-2013, 10:56 AM
  #555
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Not everybody figures it out. Only time will tell if Kreider does or doesn't.

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01-14-2013, 11:07 AM
  #556
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Atkinson over Kreider?? Man this is going to be fun to bump in a year or so.
You'd better hope you're the one doing the bumping. The wife says that there's nothing worse in the world than me being right about something, then having to hear "I told you so" until the end of time.

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Old
01-14-2013, 11:17 AM
  #557
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I will admit NYR fans overhype the kid a bit but analysts and "experts" dont even mention him now for the upcoming 2013 season and that is wrong. Which is a shocker but lets begin where the hype started.

He is extremely young. Currently at 21, 6'3 and 230lbs and having a Gold Medal in the Juniors and a National Championship is all a plus especially since he was coached by the great Jerry York in BC.

You will probably look at his college stats and not be impressed. What you probably dont realize is that Jerry York over at BC doesnt like to play young players, doesnt commonly play sophomores a lot and let alone play rookies.

But Kreider played well and each day he was given more responsibilites. First yearm rookie year 26 points in 40 games. Eh but realize his TOI was limited especially on special teams. The second year everyone thought he would dominate but he got severly injured and missed quite a few weeks. He still managed after recovery to get 24 points in a 32 game season. But now look at his junior year, one of the top classmen and a proven player. Given much more responsibilities and thus gets 45 points in 44 games.

*** Oh yea and dont forget to mention the time he spent playing for USA. solid stats and a great year in 2010 when the USA upset the dynasty Canadian team where he had 7 points in 7 games.****

Then to come out of college at 20 years old and to immediately get a roster spot on the NYR (#1 in the East) in the midst of a playoff series is classic. Just goes to show you the level this kid is on off the bat. If you are not impressed with that, then i apologize but not everyone can be a Crosby/Ovechkin type player.

He did spend some time with the 1st line, some time on the 2nd and some time on the 3rd. Think he even had one game where he only played like 7 minutes lol. He had some defensive lapses and Torts decided to be careful with the young kid. Yet I remember watching every game and thinking wow.

Its not always how much you score, but his mere presence was useful for the team. Without him we probably would have lost to the Caps.

So 7 points in 18 games, in your first pro debut in the NHL playoffs of all things, being moved around on a minute to minute basis is pretty good. Including 5 goals, one or two of which was game winners. I gues that slipped your minds?

***I believe he was 1 of 2 NCAA players playing in the WC in 2011 for USA, also pretty impressive. 3 goals in 7 games. Not too shabby on a team that sucked.****

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Old
01-14-2013, 11:35 AM
  #558
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^^^ Cont'd

His Whale season in the AHL is average. Nothing to go crazy for, your right. 12 points in 33 games is nothing. Just realize he is only 21 playing in a mans league right now on a team that is not doing that crazy either. Hes a rookie being thrown left and right onto differ lines and there is no chemistry. I have no watched him but you could see there still happy with him enough to throw him into camp.

I think in a 48 game season. The kid does well on the NY Rangers. He will truly help the team like he did in the playoffs.

On the Rangers he wont be one of the top targets to watch out for when you have Gaborik, Nash, Richards. When you have Stepan, McDonagh and a speedy Hagelin. He wont be asked to do anything outside of his game. Create havoc with pressure and speed. With that simple style, He can probably obtain 20-25 points in a 48 game season with at least 13 goals. But he has all this hype because though I predict a honest season from here, he is capable of putting up 30 points and 20 goals in a season.

Idc what he does individually. All i know is if this is our lines

Nash, Richards, Gaborik
Hagelin, Stepan, Callahan
Kreider, Boyle, Asham/Newbury
Rupp/JT Miller, Halpern, Pyatt/Newbury

Than I am thrilled. Cuz all he will do is attack, attack and attack. Each year he will grow

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Old
01-14-2013, 11:37 AM
  #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
Big deal with Kreider?
If we go by history, the New York Rangers are notorious for hyping their prospects to maximum here on HF boards.
Some of them fullfill their hype, others bust...Nothing new here I suppose.
Gilroy, Montoya, Grachev were hyped to a ridiculous level as were Del Zotto, Girrardi, M. Staal.

Will see where this story ends...
Stay tuned
How could you forget the Petr Prucha hype in 2005 .

Some people on the Rangers board claimed he was better than Crosby...

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Old
01-14-2013, 11:38 AM
  #560
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Who said hes not always making smart plays? Hes fine offensively.

Did everyone forget the kid was thrown on the 3rd line for 8 of the 18 games he played lol. Between shifts his line mates changed. Between periods, he was pushed to differ areas of the game. He even spent a game or two in the 4th line with 7 or 10 minutes MAX.

The issue with kreider according to John Tortorella is that his defense needs work. He has poor defensive lapses some times but with a star line up around him, a simple system and the focus he has. He will do just fine in New York

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Old
01-14-2013, 11:46 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
How could you forget the Petr Prucha hype in 2005 .

Some people on the Rangers board claimed he was better than Crosby...
Okay first off, Ranger fans did not proclaim that. A NHL analyst said that he thinks THAT 2005-06 season he was having a better year than Crosby. And when he said that, he was not really that off. And when he said that, it was blown up on HFboards by a NON Ranger fan and thus started a big debate

Second. The kid had a lot of potential. 30 goals in his first year. But for some reason Renney didnt like his style and dropped him from the first line with Jagr to 2nd and 3rd line duties. He then only had 20 goals. Two seasons and 50 goals. Not bad

For no reason given, Prucha lost out and was played on the 4th line and then to healthy scratches. He was shipped to Phoenix where never really fit in. Had small glimpses of his old self but I think no one ever really gave him the same shot he had in his rookie year.

Hes doing fine over in KHL

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Old
01-14-2013, 12:06 PM
  #562
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When you play for a big market, your gonna get overhyped signings. Your never gonna hear Florida overhype a player lol.

Anyway, to justify some of these names you mentioned.

1) Matt Gilroy- Underrated. He played very well with the Rangers. He did exactly what was expected of him but he wanted more $ so we opted out and Tampa Bay jumped in. He had a good first year with them but the team crashed in the second and traded him or got rid of him. Ottawa signed him and I remember clearly him playing quite well. No one should have believed he was gonna be the next Norris candidate here especially in his first 3 seasons but he played well and now i am happy he is back with the Rangers. He will be a strong depth player, and I like that he can play some wing too

Grachev- Really thought high of him, had some good moments but frankly he was a bonehead and ego got ahead of him. Got a good trade in return tho.

Girardi wasnt a highly overrated prospect. In fact, he wasnt even drafted. He went through our ECHL and AHL team to be the all star he is today. You can look at his stats and be like whatever, but I watch him every game and he is the true backbone of our defense. In fact I would say he is still underrated by many.

Staal, how was he overhyped. Still a top 2 d-man on an elite team..

Montoya- Never got the chance he deserved. Rangers wanted him as a future goalie, Lundqvist stepped up faster. Bad timing. He played well in PHO and In Long Island but teams are really ****** up his development. 3 goalie system? ugh but i think he does fine in his new team

MDZ had a crazy first year followed by a bad sophomore year. So is Jeff Skinner, Matt Duchene and every sophomore slump player overhyped? It happens. In his next two seasons MDZ improved and had a pretty dam good +/- and will be a valuable top 4 d-man for us as he has been.

bad signings and drafts will happen but pound for pound you gotta love where the Rangers sit.

They are currently one of the 6 youngest teams in the NHL, yet they have made the playoffs 2 years in a row with most of the roster returning. They are still a highly ranked team. And on top of that all we have a deep pool of potential with Thomas, Miller, Mcilrath, Bourque and others. Your gonna have bad signings but there consistent enough to find the right pieces.

Kreider will fit right in the top 18 skaters somewhere between 1st and 3rd line. 1st or 2nd PP and maybe even some PK cuz of his size and speed. Im happy

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Old
01-14-2013, 12:19 PM
  #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
How could you forget the Petr Prucha hype in 2005 .

Some people on the Rangers board claimed he was better than Crosby...
Come on. There was one person who believed that.

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01-14-2013, 12:21 PM
  #564
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I don't know how anyone can say that Girardi was overrated or overhyped.

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01-14-2013, 01:18 PM
  #565
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I don't know how anyone can say that Girardi was overrated or overhyped.
Sweeping generalizations are much easier than making a legitimate point or two.

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01-14-2013, 01:41 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
Okay first off, Ranger fans did not proclaim that. A NHL analyst said that he thinks THAT 2005-06 season he was having a better year than Crosby. And when he said that, he was not really that off. And when he said that, it was blown up on HFboards by a NON Ranger fan and thus started a big debate

Second. The kid had a lot of potential. 30 goals in his first year. But for some reason Renney didnt like his style and dropped him from the first line with Jagr to 2nd and 3rd line duties. He then only had 20 goals. Two seasons and 50 goals. Not bad

For no reason given, Prucha lost out and was played on the 4th line and then to healthy scratches. He was shipped to Phoenix where never really fit in. Had small glimpses of his old self but I think no one ever really gave him the same shot he had in his rookie year.

Hes doing fine over in KHL
Seems you weren't around on HF at that time. Correct an NHL analyst said it and a lot of Rag$ fans went with it.

Kreider played well in the playoffs last year. He is not doing so great in the AHL but lets see what he does in the NHL this year.

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01-14-2013, 02:05 PM
  #567
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Off topic...but...
I was just looking up whalers team roster and came across JT Miller. He is a 93 boy and played in OHL last year, how come he is in the AHL already?

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01-14-2013, 02:10 PM
  #568
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
^^^ Cont'd

His Whale season in the AHL is average. Nothing to go crazy for, your right. 12 points in 33 games is nothing. Just realize he is only 21 playing in a mans league right now on a team that is not doing that crazy either. Hes a rookie being thrown left and right onto differ lines and there is no chemistry. I have no watched him but you could see there still happy with him enough to throw him into camp.

I think in a 48 game season. The kid does well on the NY Rangers. He will truly help the team like he did in the playoffs.

On the Rangers he wont be one of the top targets to watch out for when you have Gaborik, Nash, Richards. When you have Stepan, McDonagh and a speedy Hagelin. He wont be asked to do anything outside of his game. Create havoc with pressure and speed. With that simple style, He can probably obtain 20-25 points in a 48 game season with at least 13 goals. But he has all this hype because though I predict a honest season from here, he is capable of putting up 30 points and 20 goals in a season.

Idc what he does individually. All i know is if this is our lines

Nash, Richards, Gaborik
Hagelin, Stepan, Callahan
Kreider, Boyle, Asham/Newbury
Rupp/JT Miller, Halpern, Pyatt/Newbury

Than I am thrilled. Cuz all he will do is attack, attack and attack. Each year he will grow
If he's getting thrown around in the AHL he's DEFINITELY not ready to play in the NHL the real men's league. And not to one up but Atkinson had 50pts in 40 games and 52pts in 30 games his two final season as BC.

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01-14-2013, 02:11 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by kongt View Post
Off topic...but...
I was just looking up whalers team roster and came across JT Miller. He is a 93 boy and played in OHL last year, how come he is in the AHL already?
He wasn't drafted out of the CHL.

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01-15-2013, 04:43 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
If he's getting thrown around in the AHL he's DEFINITELY not ready to play in the NHL the real men's league. And not to one up but Atkinson had 50pts in 40 games and 52pts in 30 games his two final season as BC.
He's already played in the NHL.

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01-15-2013, 04:44 PM
  #571
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He's already played in the NHL.
Small sample size, and overrated. Doesn't count

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02-15-2013, 01:35 PM
  #572
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So...back to the AHL he goes.

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02-15-2013, 01:44 PM
  #573
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His offensive stats are far FAR from impressive. But I haven't really watched him play.

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02-15-2013, 01:51 PM
  #574
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3 shots in 7 games. Maybe he can still become as good as Rick Nash though

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02-15-2013, 02:04 PM
  #575
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Yeah because no other rookie has ever been sent down for seasoning. The hate for Kreider on this board is ridiculous.

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