HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Time to Sign Subban

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-14-2013, 10:34 AM
  #951
Pierre Dagenais
RIP Mr. Hockey
 
Pierre Dagenais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
He put up 4 points specifically because he was in a defensive role.

You're criticising a player in a defensive role for not putting up 1st line production. You sound like patofqc. Like Plekanec, we know what Semin can do when he's in an offensive role.
Semin in a defensive role?

wat

During the playoffs:
-4 seconds of shorthanded ice time for the WHOLE series.
-12th in ice time/game on the team

Pierre Dagenais is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 10:38 AM
  #952
Mats86
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,200
vCash: 500
690 was talking about possible Philly offering Subban a contract. How many picks would we get? Would Habs match?

Mats86 is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 10:39 AM
  #953
Poulet Kostopoulos
Registered User
 
Poulet Kostopoulos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I can't tell if Bergevin is a tanker or a bigot.

Last summer, he refused to go after Alexander Semin, a great player, the most talented of the 2012 UFA class, who was available on the cheap and is exactly what this team needs for the Plekanec line, a great goal scorer with excellent defensive play. I didn't know if Bergevin failed to sign Semin because he hates Russians or because he wants to tank.

Now, Bergevin is refusing to give Subban his well-deserved due -- approximately 6 million per year for 6 years. He thinks the players who was our no. 2 dman in 2010-2011 and our no. 1 dman in 2011-2012, who plays 24 minutes a game in all situations is at the same level as Price and Pacioretty were when they got their second contracts - lol !!!!! We might start the season without Subban. Does that make Bergevin a tanker or a bigot? Don't know.

Either way, without Subban, we have a very good shot at drafting Seth Jones.
Wow! Are you serious?

(I stopped reading after I saw the part in bold, so missed that ridiculous claim about Semin, which I only noticed when other posters pointed it out.)

Poulet Kostopoulos is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 10:40 AM
  #954
ClasslessGuy
Registered User
 
ClasslessGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St-Jean, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
690 was talking about possible Philly offering Subban a contract. How many picks would we get? Would Habs match?
Philly don't have the money. We would match everything to 5.5 I think.

ClasslessGuy is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 10:42 AM
  #955
disturbedraven
Lets rock
 
disturbedraven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Peterborough
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,054
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
690 was talking about possible Philly offering Subban a contract. How many picks would we get? Would Habs match?
One of the last things i'd want is Philly's 1st round picks as they are likely to be late picks.

disturbedraven is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 10:54 AM
  #956
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,231
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
He put up 4 points specifically because he was in a defensive role.

You're criticising a player in a defensive role for not putting up 1st line production. You sound like patofqc. Like Plekanec, we know what Semin can do when he's in an offensive role.
No, we know what Semin can do when he plays in a system with no accountability. And we've seen him put up disastrous production when forced to play a system, although you seem to excuse it as "playing defense", which is absurd on the face of it.

Even if that were the case, we don't have and never did have $7m to throw around hoping that Semin can score 40 goals while maintaining this elite level of responsible defensive play you've created for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
Semin in a defensive role?

wat

During the playoffs:
-4 seconds of shorthanded ice time for the WHOLE series.
-12th in ice time/game on the team
Thank you for pulling up that number. I knew he was nailed to the bench a ridiculous amount of time in that playoffs. Must have been because Hunter was preserving his awesome D skills for when it was really needed.

hototogisu is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 10:57 AM
  #957
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
No, we know what Semin can do when he plays in a system with no accountability. And we've seen him put up disastrous production when forced to play a system, although you seem to excuse it as "playing defense", which is absurd on the face of it.

Even if that were the case, we don't have and never did have $7m to throw around hoping that Semin can score 40 goals while maintaining this elite level of responsible defensive play you've created for him.
I'm assuming that Semin is overpaid because he signed a 1-year contract, and that he would be making less than 7 if a long-term contract had been offered. We don't know if that's true, but it's logical, economics 101 logic that a shorter term contract would pay more. A package with less security has to compensate in other ways.

We do know that Bergevin was not interested. He explicitly said that he was not interested in Semin.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 11:05 AM
  #958
PunkinDrublic*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sutton,Qc-Sudbury,On
Posts: 8,283
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I'm assuming that Semin is overpaid because he signed a 1-year contract, and that he would be making less than 7 if a long-term contract had been offered. We don't know if that's true, but it's logical, economics 101 logic that a shorter term contract would pay more. A package with less security has to compensate in other ways.

We do know that Bergevin was not interested. He explicitly said that he was not interested in Semin.
With reason !!

PunkinDrublic* is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 11:32 AM
  #959
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,544
vCash: 500
Sounds like the Habs might have been a little serious about Doan, but not Semin. Anyway, I agree with most of the knocks on Semin stated lately here, but still would have taken him on a 1-year tryout... we have compromised with a variety of imperfect players in the past, and Semin's pure talent might have offset his shortcomings... it would have been interesting to find out. Not $7M interesting, however.

Blind Gardien is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 11:39 AM
  #960
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,148
vCash: 500
i'd love to know what the gap is btw what is being offered and what is being asked for...

if it's less than 500k or 2 seasons, then the Habs are being foolish at this point.

Not having Subban in camp from day one is FAR worse for the team than it is for the player. with such a short season, if not being in camp has even a small negative effect on Subban's effectivness/integration into the new system in the first few games, that could very well end up being the difference btw making/missing the playoffs (which is a huge revenue difference for the team).

with our schedule being favorable early (big home game stretch), the need for us to have a strong start is huge, hope MB & Molson are keeping that well in mind.

can't even make the "precedent" argument in not wanting to give him too much, when was the last time we had a dman come in and be the minute-eating impact player Subban has been in his first 2 years???

dude earned a fat pay day, 2nd contract or not. Pay him, or find the right deal and pull it off now... the longer this drags out the worse it is for us, period.

Miller Time is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 11:42 AM
  #961
Habtchum*
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbedraven View Post
One of the last things i'd want is Philly's 1st round picks as they are likely to be late picks.
With Bryzgalov and Boucher in net, I don't think the Flyers are very strong.

Habtchum* is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 11:44 AM
  #962
disturbedraven
Lets rock
 
disturbedraven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Peterborough
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,054
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
With Bryzgalov and Boucher in net, I don't think the Flyers are very strong.
Breezy is a decent regular season goalie, and with the firepower they have up front I would venture a guess that they likely aren't a bottom 15 team

disturbedraven is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 11:45 AM
  #963
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,544
vCash: 500
I assume the clock on paydays has started ticking from camp opening? Rough calculation, if PK is getting around $5M, but pro-rated for 48/82 games and something like a 50% tax hit, he'd be losing around $15,000 per day he remains unsigned, around $100k per week...

Blind Gardien is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 11:50 AM
  #964
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Subban has played fabulously for 2+ years.

Subban rocked in the 2009-2010 playoffs, when he replaced an injured Markov and helped us make the conference finals.

He was our no. 2 dman in 2010-2011 when we were a 6th place team that was a lucky bounce away from eliminating the eventual champions Bruins. He was only a little less useful than Hamrlik, very close to being our no. 1.

He was our no. 1 dman in 2011-2012, playing 24 minutes a night in all situations. He was a "+" player going up against the league's best on the third worst team in the league, he's that good.

Price and Pacioretty? They were potential busts when they were negotiating their second contracts. Subban is not a potential bust. Let's not talk about his ceiling, let's talk about his floor. His floor is no lower than a no. 2 dman on most good teams.

He is right up there with players ranging from Tyler Myers to John Carlson in deserving a good second contract.
If we are aggregating the entire season Hamrlik was the number one. But post-January Subban had surpased him. He and Gill were getting the top shutdown and PK minutes and he was first unit PP with Wisniewski. Hamrlik was back to anchoring the 2nd pair.

During the Pacioretty period, where the Habs were playing like an elite team that year, Subban was the number one and it was Hamrlik a hair behind.

Talks to Goalposts is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 11:57 AM
  #965
cap10bfl
Registered User
 
cap10bfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Laval, Qc
Country: Portugal
Posts: 1,942
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to cap10bfl
Even though signing Semin would have been a huge mistake, I wouldn't be surprised seeing him excel in Carolina playing with the Eric and Jordan on the same line.

However I do agree that Subban is in the same class as Myers


Last edited by overlords: 01-14-2013 at 01:16 PM.
cap10bfl is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 12:13 PM
  #966
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
If we are aggregating the entire season Hamrlik was the number one. But post-January Subban had surpased him. He and Gill were getting the top shutdown and PK minutes and he was first unit PP with Wisniewski. Hamrlik was back to anchoring the 2nd pair.

During the Pacioretty period, where the Habs were playing like an elite team that year, Subban was the number one and it was Hamrlik a hair behind.
Thank you for the clarification.

I was aggregating the entire season and going by ice time. They were very close.

People who think Subban hasn't proven himself have simply failed to properly follow the team. They're either not following, or they're analyzing Subban through "biased" lenses.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 12:59 PM
  #967
Drive425
Registered User
 
Drive425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: St Louis Du Haha
Country: Malta
Posts: 1,934
vCash: 500
Hoping the MDZ signing helps move the Subban process along. I have a feeling it will have the opposite outsome. He needs to be signed by Wednesday at the latest.

Drive425 is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 01:30 PM
  #968
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 23,422
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
No, we know what Semin can do when he plays in a system with no accountability. And we've seen him put up disastrous production when forced to play a system, although you seem to excuse it as "playing defense", which is absurd on the face of it.

Even if that were the case, we don't have and never did have $7m to throw around hoping that Semin can score 40 goals while maintaining this elite level of responsible defensive play you've created for him.
I don't think you're being quite fair. Backstrom only scored 8pts, Ovie 9pts, those two guys seemed to have suffered a drop in production under Hunter as well. Heck, Ovie scored 65pts during the season..
Hunter's system didn't really work well in Washington, it was very similar to Martin's during our amazing run to the ECF, except they relied on goaltending even more.
I really wasn't impressed by Washington's play, or Hunter's bench management for that matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Thank you for pulling up that number. I knew he was nailed to the bench a ridiculous amount of time in that playoffs. Must have been because Hunter was preserving his awesome D skills for when it was really needed.
Beagle, Brouwer and Johansson all played more than Semin on avg, yet not one of them scored more goals or points that him.

The leadership in Washington has been a question mark for many years, Semin has gotten a bad rep over the years, but I feel a lot of it was unwarranted. When we eliminated them a few years back, people crap all over him, but I felt he was one of the most dangerous Caps players. He hit about 4034909 posts versus us during that series, he really just couldn't buy a goal.

I would have had no problem at all taking a chance on Semin. You don't pass up on such skills.

Kriss E is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 01:34 PM
  #969
GordonGraham
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,875
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
i'd love to know what the gap is btw what is being offered and what is being asked for...

if it's less than 500k or 2 seasons, then the Habs are being foolish at this point.
.
On hockeycentral at noon john shannen said that they are 3M apart

PK wanting 6Mper on 5-6 year deal Habs offering 3M per on a 2 year deal.

GordonGraham is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 01:36 PM
  #970
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,097
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
On hockeycentral at noon john shannen said that they are 3M apart

PK wanting 6Mper on 5-6 year deal Habs offering 3M per on a 2 year deal.

Habsawce is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 01:39 PM
  #971
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
I'd trade term for cap dollars when it comes to subban in a heartbeat. Give him 4.5 for 8 years. Git'er done.

overlords is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 01:42 PM
  #972
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
On hockeycentral at noon john shannen said that they are 3M apart

PK wanting 6Mper on 5-6 year deal Habs offering 3M per on a 2 year deal.
4.5 x 3 years is a good compromise

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 01:42 PM
  #973
Tim Wallach
Registered User
 
Tim Wallach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,303
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
On hockeycentral at noon john shannen said that they are 3M apart

PK wanting 6Mper on 5-6 year deal Habs offering 3M per on a 2 year deal.
I heard the same interview and I believe that was Jamie Benn they were talking about on those specific numbers. They said Dallas is offering $3/per and Benn is asking for $6/per.

It was all a part of the discussion about the top remaining UFAs and most of it was about Subban. But not to worry, those numbers weren't the Montreal situation.

Tim Wallach is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 01:44 PM
  #974
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 23,422
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
On hockeycentral at noon john shannen said that they are 3M apart

PK wanting 6Mper on 5-6 year deal Habs offering 3M per on a 2 year deal.
I can't believe the Habs are actually thinking they can lock up PK for 3M..
That would be a massive steal. I mean, I was guessing 4-4.5M, but 3M? And then they expect PK to effectively play up to 28min at times as their #1? Not to mention all the people he'll attract and money he'll be bringing the habs because of his marketability.
I would have no problem paying him 6M. I'd try to lower it to 5.25M, but I wouldn't risk starting the season without him over it.

Kriss E is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 01:44 PM
  #975
DJ Breadman
Registered User
 
DJ Breadman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Newfoundland
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,341
vCash: 500
why does he want a 5/6 year deal, doesn't it make sense to have a 2 year deal if his career progresses on the same path, he'll make even more money in 2 years time when his contracts up

DJ Breadman is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:56 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.