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NY Post 01/14/2013: Gaborik switches sides [to LW]

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Old
01-14-2013, 12:34 PM
  #76
Tony D63
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If he scores goals I don't care.

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01-14-2013, 12:39 PM
  #77
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Torts coaches the team. If he thinks this is a good enough idea to try, it probably is.

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01-14-2013, 12:41 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Yet, Stepan had no problem setting up Gaborik for most of the year.

I think Tortorella is over thinking this...
The few goals that Stepan set Gaborik up for, on the rush, both players had to turn their bodies. That's all well and good, but would be better if neither player had to do that.

We'll see how it works out. Nothing wrong with trying to improve an already good situation. If it's not going as well as hoped, then you switch things up.

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01-14-2013, 12:42 PM
  #79
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He's getting them prepared for all the line juggling.

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01-14-2013, 12:53 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcatNYR View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...K1PO95bRlCQ8wK

Rangersí Gaborik switches sides
By LARRY BROOKS
Last Updated: 5:24 AM, January 14, 2013
Posted: 2:06 AM, January 14, 2013
Noted.

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Old
01-14-2013, 12:59 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
That's all fine and good.

But Nash has played alot mroe LW than Gaborik has throughout his career and would be better suited to making that shift.

Nash is also a Left handed shot.

Still makes no sense to have Gaborik shift wings.
What makes no sense?

Torts obviously wants Stepan and Gaborik together. Stepan is able to feed Gaborik using his forehand on the rush if Gaborik plays LW. Why would Nash make the change if hes playing with Richards and this is Torts' thought process?

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01-14-2013, 01:05 PM
  #82
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i think what we're forgetting here is that whenever gaborik is healthy he is going to score

as long as he's fully heeled, hes going to score at a 30-40goal pace, regardless of his linemates or situation

I get Torts logic...getting the puck to gaborik = goals....if moving him to the LW makes that easier then im all for it

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01-14-2013, 01:06 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Leetch66 View Post
If Gabby does not rack up a lot of goals before the deadline I think we seriously should consider moving him . He has been and always will be a fragile player . We could get in on the Getzlaf/Perry grab at the deadline and I would sooner have one of those guys playing the Pen/Bruins/Flyers in the playoffs than Gabby .

Flame away .
"said Gaborik, whose 41 goals last season were third most in the NHL behind Steven Stamkosí 60 and Evgeni Malkinís 50."

If Gabby wasn't on the Rangers you'd be suggesting that we trade for him, no? Yes.

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01-14-2013, 01:09 PM
  #84
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it's just another option for tortorella. he will play nine forwards throughout any given game mixing and matching throughout. i think he's just trying out another layout he could use. nothing's set in stone. any player who has been on a tortorella-coached team learns to be flexible. i'm sure gaborik will be fine, too. it was derek zoolander who couldn't turn left. gabby can!

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01-14-2013, 01:22 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
Our even strength scoring wasn't a problem last year, so i'm much, much more interested in what we do with the groups on the power play than on even strength.
I think the first PP unit will look like

Gaborik-Stepan-Nash
Richards-DZ

Or if Torts wants Callahan out there then replace Stepan with Callahan and they'll go with 2 defensemen DZ & maybe Girardi.

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01-14-2013, 01:25 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Leetch66 View Post
If Gabby does not rack up a lot of goals before the deadline I think we seriously should consider moving him . He has been and always will be a fragile player . We could get in on the Getzlaf/Perry grab at the deadline and I would sooner have one of those guys playing the Pen/Bruins/Flyers in the playoffs than Gabby .

I know we lose a year because Getzlaf & Perry would need to be signed while Gabby already is for next season . Anaheim could possibly consider the deal because they would have a signed asset in Gabby for 2014 and then they could move him at the 2015 deadline for something .

I want a Cup...we missed out on an easy crack at it last year because we did not make the crucial moves . Sometimes you gotta give to get !!! Flame away .
Bad idea IMO.

The way that the cap is looking for the future, this team has a window of a few years to get their cup. Gaborik has shown that he can score on this team, with this coach, in this system, at an incredible pace. It'd be silly to get rid of him for a guy with a similarly large cap hit whose ability to play on this team is totally unknown. We'd still have the same window, only we'd have to spend that time getting a new player accustomed to the team and the system and we can't say for sure that they'd thrive here.

If you want a cup, you keep Gaborik at this point. Also, there is no such thing as an easy crack at being a championship team and the Nash move was "the crucial move" we needed to make.

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01-14-2013, 01:26 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Richards took time to adjust to playing on this team. He admitted that much himself. It had very little to do with suddenly getting the right players on his line. If Gaborik was so perfect for him, why wasn't he producing early on in the season where he started on a line with Gaborik?

Nobody is "comparing" Nash and Callahan. However, what nyr2k2 and I both demonstrated to you is that if you remove the PP production from a players point totals, you can make just about anyone look "pedestrian." Take away Shea Weber's PP numbers and he's a 25pt D-man and not a perennial Norris candidate.



Tortorella needed someone to replace Hagelin after he was suspended. Had he not been suspended, there's a high probability that he would have never even cracked the lineup. If it was Callahan who was suspended, he likely would have started on the 2nd line. If he was so perfect for the role, then he wouldn't have been removed from that role as soon as Hags returned to the lineup. Hell, I don't even think he lasted the entire game on the first line.

Right now, Hagelin and Callahan are both better options in the "role" that you're speaking of. Until Kreider can prove that he's a better option than either of them, he belongs on the 3rd line or in Hartford.
If you do believe that Kreider is a better fit on the 3rd line and Callahan is a better fit on the second, we just have fundamentally different opinions and we'll need to agree to disagree.

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01-14-2013, 01:35 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Richards took time to adjust to playing on this team. He admitted that much himself. It had very little to do with suddenly getting the right players on his line. If Gaborik was so perfect for him, why wasn't he producing early on in the season where he started on a line with Gaborik?

Nobody is "comparing" Nash and Callahan. However, what nyr2k2 and I both demonstrated to you is that if you remove the PP production from a players point totals, you can make just about anyone look "pedestrian." Take away Shea Weber's PP numbers and he's a 25pt D-man and not a perennial Norris candidate.



Tortorella needed someone to replace Hagelin after he was suspended. Had he not been suspended, there's a high probability that he would have never even cracked the lineup. If it was Callahan who was suspended, he likely would have started on the 2nd line. If he was so perfect for the role, then he wouldn't have been removed from that role as soon as Hags returned to the lineup. Hell, I don't even think he lasted the entire game on the first line.

Right now, Hagelin and Callahan are both better options in the "role" that you're speaking of. Until Kreider can prove that he's a better option than either of them, he belongs on the 3rd line or in Hartford.
Yeah but even if either is a better option than Kreider in the top 6, but that will make Kreider useless. This way we may be weakening the top 6 a little but are significantly upgrading the 3rd line. Just watch we'll be getting Kreider is a bust thread because he's playing with mediocre offensive players on the 3rd line.

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01-14-2013, 01:52 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Matt4776 View Post
If you do believe that Kreider is a better fit on the 3rd line and Callahan is a better fit on the second, we just have fundamentally different opinions and we'll need to agree to disagree.
If agree to disagree means "let me boil down your stance into something that's not really what you said" then I'm not sure I'm on board with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Yeah but even if either is a better option than Kreider in the top 6, but that will make Kreider useless. This way we may be weakening the top 6 a little but are significantly upgrading the 3rd line. Just watch we'll be getting Kreider is a bust thread because he's playing with mediocre offensive players on the 3rd line.
I'm far more concerned with the team's success as a whole than I am about Kreider being useless. If he can't find a way to contribute as a 3rd liner, then he's certainly not ready for a top-six role. For all of the times I heard "His speed and size will make him a 3rd liner at worst" there seems to be a lot of people trying to spoon feed him a spot in the top-six.

Kreider has already had plenty of bust threads. They're the least of my concerns. Player evaluation isn't this boards strong suit.

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01-14-2013, 01:56 PM
  #90
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This whole idea of Kreider as a top-6 or nothing is entirely ridiculous to me. The guy has the physical attributes to contribute on the 3rd line. Let him acclimate to the NHL and go from there.

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01-14-2013, 02:00 PM
  #91
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I think Kreider could work with Boyle. Both are big bodies so let them play along the boards and get pucks to the net. Plus Tortorella will be juggling lines anway, as noted several times, so Kreider will get his minutes within the top-6. I'd imagine if the Gaborik as LW has netted results in 2 full games and maybe one period, then Gabs will find himself back to RW with Kreider as LW and Cally on the 3rd line with Boyle.

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01-14-2013, 02:02 PM
  #92
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I remember torts said when they rounded down the post playoff exit to not pencil Kreider in on the top lines, I don't see why him being on the 3rd line surprises people. He had a good run in the playoffs, but he has to earn the coaches trust now

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01-14-2013, 02:08 PM
  #93
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This is also a short season where every game counts so they have to go with known commodity, meaning Hagelin over Kreider at the moment. Which is why I don't think this Gabs as a LW expriment will last too long.

Now watch him score 4 goals in 3 games as a LW.

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01-14-2013, 02:10 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post

I'm far more concerned with the team's success as a whole than I am about Kreider being useless. If he can't find a way to contribute as a 3rd liner, then he's certainly not ready for a top-six role.
Good point.

Heres a quick hint when evaluating a player. Anytime you find yourself about to say "(Player X) should be in the top 6 - hes just invisible because hes on a line without talent," - just stop yourself.

Good players - players that eventually make their way into a consistent top 6 player find a way to contribute if they're on the bottom lines.


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01-14-2013, 02:14 PM
  #95
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reading the comments from torts after practice i think this move might be 100% about sending a message to kreider that the top 6 is set without him and he better not think he has a spot locked up...

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01-14-2013, 02:22 PM
  #96
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BTW, weren't there some people concerned about Stepan's lack of chemistry with Callahan? No one worried about that?

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01-14-2013, 02:29 PM
  #97
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It could work out well so might as well try it early on. For those who have short term memory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N7lMPgKOCg

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01-14-2013, 02:34 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by li97 View Post
It could work out well so might as well try it early on. For those who have short term memory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N7lMPgKOCg
Well, that youtube clip from 3 and a half years ago definitely has me sold.

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01-14-2013, 02:40 PM
  #99
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Good point.

Heres a quick hint when evaluating a player. Anytime you find yourself about to say "(Player X) should be in the top 6 - hes just invisible because hes on a line without talent," - just stop yourself.

Good players - players that eventually make their way into a consistent top 6 player find a way to contribute if they're on the bottom lines.
I'm firmly of the belief that Kreider will be a more potent offensive weapon when paired with a guy who can feed him the puck. However, I'm not in the group of people who feel like he should be handed a top-six role based on his playoff performance. He needs to learn to play both sides of the puck if he's going to be an effective player on this team. Torts wants guys to earn his ice-time. Not sure why so many fans don't feel the same way.

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01-14-2013, 02:43 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If agree to disagree means "let me boil down your stance into something that's not really what you said" then I'm not sure I'm on board with that.



I'm far more concerned with the team's success as a whole than I am about Kreider being useless. If he can't find a way to contribute as a 3rd liner, then he's certainly not ready for a top-six role. For all of the times I heard "His speed and size will make him a 3rd liner at worst" there seems to be a lot of people trying to spoon feed him a spot in the top-six.

Kreider has already had plenty of bust threads. They're the least of my concerns. Player evaluation isn't this boards strong suit.
You said you feel Callahan or Hagelin (whom I firmly believe will always be the superior player to Kreider, but that could also be because I'm a biased Michigan student who had the pleasure of seeing him play two years ago on a daily basis) are better suited to the role I was describing (i.e. the top 6 role w/ Stepan), to which I said I fundamentally disagreed. Unless I misunderstood your comment, I'm not sure what you mean here.

And in addition, I've never stated he's a third liner at worst. He has never been a defensive type player, and never will. Could he thrive on a third-line scoring type role? Sure. But that's not how our current third line is currently built. If we had a say, Artem Anisimov, as our third line center, then I believe Kreider, Anisimov, and say a JT Miller type player could form an incredibly effective third line. However, he isn't going to get anything done with a Brian Boyle type center.

EDIT:

And also, I'm not saying he should be "handed" a role based on his playoff performance. I felt these would be the best lines to start the season. I'm absolutely not saying if he struggles there and looks out of place and looks like a defensive liability with Stepan and Gaborik he should stay there for another 10 games because of his playoff performance. Quite frankly, I don't care about his playoff performance. I care about the type of player he has developed to be over the past 3 1/2 years or so since we drafted him, and he has developed into the type of player that should thrive with Stepan and Gaborik. Again, it's a 48 game season, so if he looks out of place, by all means move him. I think that would be the ideal place to start him though- and if he shows he can handle it, it would balance our team in the best way.


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