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Not really off to the best start, are we?

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Old
01-14-2013, 11:27 AM
  #76
Mats NAslund
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
So...Drouin, Lindholm or Barkov?

I want Lindholm.
Why not McKinnon opr Seth Jones

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Old
01-14-2013, 12:04 PM
  #77
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LOL I'm a fairweather fan? I have like 18,000 posts on this forum...I think I would have given up by now if I was so fickle.

I also don't see where you got that impression based off my post. Not sure you really understood what I was trying to say. Especially considering I made a point to mention how much I hate when things go bad, especially when it's for the best.
who cares how many posts you have?that means nothing.you are a fairweather fan bud.you sit on the fence.there s no grey area ,you are either with the team or not.its pretty obvious you re bailing out already.

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01-14-2013, 12:13 PM
  #78
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who cares how many posts you have?that means nothing.you are a fairweather fan bud.you sit on the fence.there s no grey area ,you are either with the team or not.its pretty obvious you re bailing out already.
please do educate us more about the rules of being a fan according to you...


this kind of thinking is what pollutes any interesting discussion & why entities like Fox or Sun News exist & thrive... sad...

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01-14-2013, 12:38 PM
  #79
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i'm fairly skeptical towards new management group, mostly due to high inexperience in the group and i get a feeling that this group wants to be "old school" in the way they do things, even though you need to be progressive and innovative to be in the "top".

Things like adding "grit" will suck when management realizes they spent their time looking at "grit" and realize the lack of skill.
Like concentrating on 'discipline' instead of 'purpose'.

Like the "no excuses" sign will suck hard when this team will go through losing streaks and will only amplify the 'sucking' when the moment arises.

Lack of progressiveness is what i fear, and more of a 'back to basics' is what i see.

Hopefully i am wrong.

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01-14-2013, 12:47 PM
  #80
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Allegedly all of gomez's excuses for his poor play:


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Old
01-14-2013, 01:02 PM
  #81
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who cares how many posts you have?that means nothing.you are a fairweather fan bud.you sit on the fence.there s no grey area ,you are either with the team or not.its pretty obvious you re bailing out already.
Not sure what you're talking about. Our team finished 28th last season, and we didn't improve over the summer. Our best bet is for our injured players from last year (mainly Gionta and Markov) to have healthy years and contribute like they once did. We're also banking on bounce back years of guys that had bad seasons like Bourque and Kaberle. Not to mention, we're also hoping for our youngsters (Emelin, Diaz, Eller, DD, MaxPac) to keep progressing. Can't forget about needing our good players to step up too in Cole, Plek, Gorges, Price, PK.
Needless to say, we need a lot of good things to happen for us to have a good year.

Not that this is impossible, but you can't possibly blame any fan for not being overly optimistic. We have more chances of struggling than succeeding this year. Doesn't make anybody less of a fan.

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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
i'm fairly skeptical towards new management group, mostly due to high inexperience in the group and i get a feeling that this group wants to be "old school" in the way they do things, even though you need to be progressive and innovative to be in the "top".

Things like adding "grit" will suck when management realizes they spent their time looking at "grit" and realize the lack of skill.
Like concentrating on 'discipline' instead of 'purpose'.

Like the "no excuses" sign will suck hard when this team will go through losing streaks and will only amplify the 'sucking' when the moment arises.

Lack of progressiveness is what i fear, and more of a 'back to basics' is what i see.

Hopefully i am wrong.
The sign says No Excuses, not No Losses. I think our management group realize they don't have a winning team here. Bergevin even said there was a lot of work to do, that he believed in rebuilding teams through drafting and development. I'm pretty sure that sign is more related to work ethic than wins/losses.

I don't mind the fact management brought in more ruggedness, however, I was disappointed when they said they had no interest in Semin, Jagr and A.Kost. Our winger depth is paper thin.
So, I don't mind if they go through rebuilding with draft picks, but they should make trades to better this path. We'll see what happens.

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01-14-2013, 01:07 PM
  #82
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I think the whole "didn't improve over the summer" argument is crap. We had how many players injured last season? including our captain and our "best" defenceman. We got both of them back healthy, added a couple players who help with grit. If all are healthy then this team is a lot better than last seasons record. how much better is still up for debate. But getting Gionta and Markov back full time (hopefully) is almost as good as bringing in new players who weren't here last season. I'd say the lineup as a whole has improved rather than staying the same /getting worse

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01-14-2013, 01:54 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post


The sign says No Excuses, not No Losses. I think our management group realize they don't have a winning team here. Bergevin even said there was a lot of work to do, that he believed in rebuilding teams through drafting and development. I'm pretty sure that sign is more related to work ethic than wins/losses.

I don't mind the fact management brought in more ruggedness, however, I was disappointed when they said they had no interest in Semin, Jagr and A.Kost. Our winger depth is paper thin.
So, I don't mind if they go through rebuilding with draft picks, but they should make trades to better this path. We'll see what happens.
i wasn't really referring to win/losses particularly, i just used that as an example. it's a sign of a ideological philosophy that is being instilled into the habs. "my way or the highway" type of thing. It's too early to really get into it really, considering not one game has been played, but that's my feeling right now, and will probably change over time.

i don't mind the 'ruggedness', but i'm having flashes of similarity between this 'ruggedness' and the leafs 'truculence' when burke stepped in. that type of closed minded ideology, refusing to adapt to other NHL realities.

Like i said, that's my initial perception, and it will probably change. But haven gone over a few of Bergs pressers, he doesn't strike me as the brightness guy in the business and neither does Therrien.

im pretty indifferent about having a winning season, right now, but what i fear is losing key players. Subban for one, and others through trade.

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Old
01-14-2013, 05:21 PM
  #84
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who cares how many posts you have?that means nothing.you are a fairweather fan bud.you sit on the fence.there s no grey area ,you are either with the team or not.its pretty obvious you re bailing out already.
Extremism is for people who can't think for themselves.

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01-14-2013, 05:50 PM
  #85
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Pretty simple...

Only two things can make us Hab fans happy this season (imo):
1) we go far in playoffs (do well/very well)
2) we get a top 5 pick (or at worst...a top 7 pick)...this is of course only if we start getting lots of injuries again (Markov) and the losses start accumulating.


Anything else will be very very depressing for us Hab fans.
(losing is depressing imo...but if that happens we better get rewarded with a top 5 pick ; 'cause losing and not getting at least a top 7 or top 8 pick is even more depressing).


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 01-14-2013 at 06:19 PM.
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Old
01-14-2013, 05:54 PM
  #86
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The team finished last in the east, got its coach and GM fired. Not shocking things look ugly right now (and I agree they do in a lot of ways). My big hope is we doggedly pursue a real turnaround. If that means more ugliness in the short term, I can live with it, but I'm looking for a reason to believe we're taking advantage of low expectations to build a real winner. Can't honestly say I'm confident if that now. Lefebre's coaching and MB's roster for Hamilron don't exactly shine a light toward better times, for instance.

On the key points, the Subban thing is really off putting, but on that front I have real hope. Bottom line the Price contract was good and the Pax contract was flat out excellent. No big surprise they want to sign Subban for a similarly good number but he wants to cash in.

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01-14-2013, 06:10 PM
  #87
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A slightly different perspective:

Screw 2012. Rather than assume the Habs are automatically going to mirror last year's meltdown, why not assume we're a continuation of 2011. We finished 6th in the EC and played a strong playoff series, losing in overtime game 7. Lots to build on from there, right? And guess what - our core from that year is in place and mostly improved. We've lost a few solid guys but we've gained back at least as much.

See for yourself. Here's the Habs now, compared to our solid 2011 season:

Returning from 2011 (+ is improved / = is the same as then / - is diminished):

Price +

Subban +
Gorges +
Webber +

Pacioretty +
Eller +
Desharnais +
Plekanec =
Gionta =/-
White +
Moen +/=

No longer on the team

Cammalleri
A. Kostitsyn
Gomez
Pouliot
Halpern
Darche
Hamrlik
Spacek
Wisniewski
Gill

Added

Cole
Bourque
Armstrong
Prust

Emelin
Diaz
Bouillon
Kaberle
Markov (he only played 7 games in '11)

Summary: Biggest loss from 2011 is a productive Cammy and AK up front and the solid D of Hamrlik and Gill, plus Wiz's offensive D.

But Cole is better than Cammy, and Bourque, Armstrong and Prust can compensate for the erratic offence of the rest of the departed. We took a major hit on D, but Bouillon and a returning Markov can be at least as good. And then there are the maturing guys like Emelin and Diaz.

Plus look at the improvement curve on most of our returning players. Pacioretty, DD are miles ahead. Eller could break out. Worst case is Gionta slowing down slightly.

Overall:

Returning guys: The majority of our roster is returning, mostly young and still improving.

Net Gain/Loss Offence: Offensive talent is approx equal to 2011. If Bourque wakes up, if Eller blossoms, we're better.

Net Gain/Loss Defense: Very solid D in 2011 could return in 2013 if Markov does. Emelin and Diaz can make or break our D, depending whether they step up.

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Old
01-14-2013, 06:23 PM
  #88
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Extremism is for people who can't think for themselves.
Why do you even respond?

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Old
01-14-2013, 06:28 PM
  #89
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Perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic, but I can't shake the feeling that things are off to a terrible start this year.

Cole is unhappy, allegedly considering retirement...I worry about him mailing in the season.

One of our top prospects in Leblanc is apparently being bullied and tormented to the point of having a fractured psyche in Hamilton.

One of the main pieces of our core hasn't signed yet and there are all kinds of rumours of him being disliked by the team (which I don't fully buy, but I don't like to hear about it).

Gomez being sent home...Yes most fans are happy about it, but Gomez was very well liked in the room and had a lot of friends. I'm sure most realize that it's business but I'm betting they aren't thrilled with how it went down.

Honestly, things look to be headed south. For the best I guess, I mean at this point I prefer if they tank and get a Seth Jones or a Drouin/McKinnon, but the "fan" in me hates to see the team lose.

In some ways I feel we are seeing the beginning of the end of this current "era" of the Habs. The era of Gionta-Gomez-Plekanec-Markov... The new era will soon begin centred around Price, Pacioretty, Subban and (hopefully) Galchenyuk.

Regardless of how you feel about individual players, it makes me sad to see the cracks beginning to form in the foundation of this team. It will all be for the best, I'm sure, but I hate seeing it anyways.

And honestly...It'll probably get pretty ugly over the next 2 years.
Dave, Dave, stop reading the tea leaves. Wait until at least January 19.

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01-14-2013, 06:33 PM
  #90
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Still not convinced we could finish in the bottom 2 with the tanklords Columbus and the Islanders around, which is why I didn't include Jones and Mackinnon. But I'd take any of them.
If the Oilers finish 30th (or even 29th) again the current coach won't be around to see the renaissance.

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Old
01-14-2013, 06:38 PM
  #91
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LOL I'm a fairweather fan? I have like 18,000 posts on this forum...I think I would have given up by now if I was so fickle.

I also don't see where you got that impression based off my post. Not sure you really understood what I was trying to say. Especially considering I made a point to mention how much I hate when things go bad, especially when it's for the best.
You'e not a fair weather fan. I suspect it's just a low serotonin level that'll improve when the weather gets warmer.

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01-14-2013, 06:48 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
i'm fairly skeptical towards new management group, mostly due to high inexperience in the group and i get a feeling that this group wants to be "old school" in the way they do things, even though you need to be progressive and innovative to be in the "top".

Things like adding "grit" will suck when management realizes they spent their time looking at "grit" and realize the lack of skill.
Like concentrating on 'discipline' instead of 'purpose'.

Like the "no excuses" sign will suck hard when this team will go through losing streaks and will only amplify the 'sucking' when the moment arises.

Lack of progressiveness is what i fear, and more of a 'back to basics' is what i see.

Hopefully i am wrong.
Sure, players with skill are available at every vending machine. Tell us where to find the coins/tokens that release them.

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01-14-2013, 07:18 PM
  #93
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Little Louie was another huge mistake. We all know why the Habs drafted him so we get what we deserve. Another disappointment.

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01-14-2013, 08:01 PM
  #94
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Little Louie was another huge mistake. We all know why the Habs drafted him so we get what we deserve. Another disappointment.
Way too early to close the book on Leblanc. He's coming off an injury and having a tough time. I can imagine he and Hudon as parts of a fine third line.

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01-14-2013, 08:11 PM
  #95
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i'm fairly skeptical towards new management group, mostly due to high inexperience in the group and i get a feeling that this group wants to be "old school" in the way they do things, even though you need to be progressive and innovative to be in the "top".
Gainey and Goatman were "experienced" and previously successful NHL GM's. Enough said.

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01-14-2013, 10:08 PM
  #96
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Little Louie was another huge mistake. We all know why the Habs drafted him so we get what we deserve. Another disappointment.
Can we stop this already? Seriously?

You guys are pathetic.

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01-14-2013, 10:27 PM
  #97
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i wasn't really referring to win/losses particularly, i just used that as an example. it's a sign of a ideological philosophy that is being instilled into the habs. "my way or the highway" type of thing. It's too early to really get into it really, considering not one game has been played, but that's my feeling right now, and will probably change over time.

i don't mind the 'ruggedness', but i'm having flashes of similarity between this 'ruggedness' and the leafs 'truculence' when burke stepped in. that type of closed minded ideology, refusing to adapt to other NHL realities.

Like i said, that's my initial perception, and it will probably change. But haven gone over a few of Bergs pressers, he doesn't strike me as the brightness guy in the business and neither does Therrien.

im pretty indifferent about having a winning season, right now, but what i fear is losing key players. Subban for one, and others through trade.
I'm not quite sure about ''it's my way or the highway'' ideology you think there is. It's not a dictatorship going on. I really am not a fan of Therrien, but he seems very open to communicate with his players and take in ideas/opinions/suggestions, basically, discuss things.
As I said, I think his ''No Excuse'' is more about work ethic and how people have gotten away with halfassing performances over the past few years.

I don't think there's a comparison with when Burke took over. I think Burke started building a good thing, but he focused too much on one thing. He went after Phaneuf, which was a good thing, but then also went after Beauchemin and Komisarek. Brought in guys like Orr, Exelby, Rosehill.

Bergevin went after Prust and Armstrong, which can be argued was needed. On defense, he went after Bouillon as we needed more ruggedness on the back end. This was targeted as a very important missing aspect to this team. So, it's not so bad. We will see how things develop over the years, but Bergevin does not seem interested in any player that simply doesn't give his heart out every night, no matter how skilled. I think it's way too soon to say if he's going down the same path as Burke. Personally I don't think he is. Bergevin had success in Chicago and they had guys like Burish and Eager, not to mention Byf who's a beast however skilled.
So, I'm guessing he wants to build a similar type of team. But there wasn't much of anything interested on the market available, so he opted for temporary fixes. Armstrong and Bouillon could be gone as of next season. Prust at 28 can still contribute well over his three other years here.

Bergevin and Therrien look as dumb as dumb&dumber, but I think that's just because they can't express themselves really that well. I don't think their ideas are dumb, at least not what they have mentioned so far.

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Old
01-15-2013, 01:35 PM
  #98
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I wasn't clear in what I meant by "things will get ugly".

On the ice is a big part of it, but I'm also talking about off the ice. There's going to be a **** storm coming, I can tell. It's going to start lots of rumours, going to create these crazy Montreal media storms that we all adore. I can just tell. The journalists must be licking their chops already...Hell, they're already sewing the seeds by reporting on all the stuff I listed.
I agree with you on this, for a few years before the lock out, the journalists and media people were given less importance and liberty to interact with Habs players and therefore we all gave less credence to their BS apocalyptic theories, scoops and alleged inside sources, but now that the management has changed they seem to go back to old habits...

That's a bad thing for sure.

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Old
01-15-2013, 02:11 PM
  #99
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01-15-2013, 02:22 PM
  #100
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Can we stop this already? Seriously?

You guys are pathetic.
If we don't draft Quebecois players, we're ignoring the talent in our own backyard.

If we do draft Quebecois players, it's because we have to appease the hometown fanbase instead of picking the most talented player.

Seems fair.

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