HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Around the LIIIgue

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-09-2013, 04:56 PM
  #101
timw33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,771
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
I was younger at the time, I didn't know who I wanted that was available (I wanted Cherepanov or Backlund) but I remember thinking: "Who the **** did we just draft?"...poor Patrick.
I remember that we had two picks between 25-35 and that was a very great opportunity to re-stock our cupboard with two solid prospects.

Hoping for Backlund, Perron, Moller, Vellieux, etc.

timw33 is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 05:04 PM
  #102
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,896
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
I was younger at the time, I didn't know who I wanted that was available (I wanted Cherepanov or Backlund) but I remember thinking: "Who the **** did we just draft?"...poor Patrick.
That was quickly followed up with a kick the groin - why the **** did we draft Ellington? - not that many draft spots later....

Barney Gumble is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 05:21 PM
  #103
CanadianPirate
Registered User
 
CanadianPirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,118
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Believe it or not, just running the numbers quickly off the top of my head/from memory, I think there's almost a 20% chance in any given year that a team with one pick in each of the 7 rounds will end up with zero NHL players.

I'm doing that pretty rough, of course, but late 1st round picks are somewhere around 50% success rate (maybe even lower than that?), 2nds are about 25%, and rounds 3-7 work out to about 11-13% on aggregate.

Leaves you between 15-20% of going oh-for-the-draft if you pick late in the 1st.
I once read from someone on this board that even if a team doesn't get a single nhl player from a draft it can still be a successful draft if they get ahl players. I don't think any of our draft players even turned into ahl players.

CanadianPirate is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 05:55 PM
  #104
timw33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,771
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianPirate View Post
I once read from someone on this board that even if a team doesn't get a single nhl player from a draft it can still be a successful draft if they get ahl players. I don't think any of our draft players even turned into ahl players.
It didn't. Matson and Ellington had cups of coffee at the AHL level. That's it.

timw33 is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 05:57 PM
  #105
thecupismine
Registered User
 
thecupismine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,767
vCash: 500
As bad as the 2007 draft was (one of the worst drafts ever), Nonis does deserve a bit of credit for how well the 2004 draft went (even if he was only in charge for a short period of time before it). That draft produced our current #1 goalie in Schneider and #1 defenseman in Edler, a great third-liner in Hansen and another fringe NHLer in Brown. He's not an overly aggressive GM, but that often results in him wasting assets on nothing rather than deciding to go for it or do nothing. He tried to patch holes in the lineup with players who couldn't fill them which resulted in far too many 2nd and 3rd round picks being traded away for basically nothing.

I said this before Burke got hired, but it would have been smarter for the Leafs to hire Nonis before Burke. Nonis won't intentionally try to stock-pile assets, but his lack of aggressiveness results in just that. Burke has always been great at taking a team to the next level, but he needs a considerable base to build from and the Leafs never had that when he got in. In Vancouver there was a bit of something and he turned that into a playoff team, while in Anaheim there were a ton of assets which Burke used to eventually build a champion. Nonis isn't the type of guy who can build a cup-contending team, but he'll leave the Leafs off in a better position than they are in right now. For all the flack he gets for his time in Vancouver, Nonis left behind a base that Gillis has been able to use to build a team that's won 4 straight division titles and has been a contender for the cup in each of those years.

thecupismine is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 07:03 PM
  #106
vanuck
Griffiths Way Goons
 
vanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 10,036
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Believe it or not, just running the numbers quickly off the top of my head/from memory, I think there's almost a 20% chance in any given year that a team with one pick in each of the 7 rounds will end up with zero NHL players.

I'm doing that pretty rough, of course, but late 1st round picks are somewhere around 50% success rate (maybe even lower than that?), 2nds are about 25%, and rounds 3-7 work out to about 11-13% on aggregate.

Leaves you between 15-20% of going oh-for-the-draft if you pick late in the 1st.
Not just that, but it's also the quality of picks you're making too - as in, how bad you're missing too. Much of our haul turned out to be nothing picks. Ellington may turn out to be an okay-ish AHLer (probably same for Matson) but still... man.

vanuck is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 08:06 PM
  #107
ProstheticConscience
Kunst
 
ProstheticConscience's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canuck Nation
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,583
vCash: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
To be fair to us, the ownership isn't any less of a gong-show either.
Yeah man, I...uh...don't really know what to say right now.

On one hand, the merits/drawbacks of Brian Burke have been debated by Canucks and Leafs fans for years, but look at Burke's record at the helm of the Leafs. You could (and many are) make a good argument for canning him just based on wins and losses, but to fire him now? Uh...? I don't get that at all.

Still funny if you're a Canucks fan, though.

ProstheticConscience is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 09:15 PM
  #108
Hammer79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,962
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProstheticConscience View Post
Yeah man, I...uh...don't really know what to say right now.

On one hand, the merits/drawbacks of Brian Burke have been debated by Canucks and Leafs fans for years, but look at Burke's record at the helm of the Leafs. You could (and many are) make a good argument for canning him just based on wins and losses, but to fire him now? Uh...? I don't get that at all.

Still funny if you're a Canucks fan, though.
Leafs ownership change took place in late August, and a couple weeks later the lockout was on. Making the change during the lockout would have been a distraction and pointless, because trades couldn't be made anyway. Trading opens back up on Saturday, and with a shortened season and with a high probability of a busy trading season, ownership probably wanted the new direction to take place now rather than playing wait-and-see until July.

As for the Nonis hiring, I actually find it puzzling. His track record as GM in Vancouver was pretty mediocre. The only positives would be getting an excellent return on Bertuzzi and the trades he didn't make.

The negatives? His drafting was generally poor besides Edler's draft year, leaving behind a system devoid of potential NHL'ers. He also left behind a boring to watch, low scoring team that failed to make the post-season. He left open cap space in hopes that Forsberg would sign, only to be burned by him later when he signed in Colorado. His off-season strategy (before he got canned)? To sign Fabian Brunnstrom and promise him top 6 minutes. These type of half-measure moves were pretty common throughout his time in Vancouver. Brad Isbister, Byron Ritchie and Marc Chouinard anyone?

Hammer79 is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 09:45 PM
  #109
*Injektilo
Registered User
 
*Injektilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: France
Posts: 11,664
vCash: 500
I note that the owners ratified the CBA 30-0. And yet posters here expect Bettman to get fired because the owners would be unhappy with the concessions he made last week.

Odd that.

*Injektilo is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 11:52 PM
  #110
Hammer79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,962
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Injektilo View Post
I note that the owners ratified the CBA 30-0. And yet posters here expect Bettman to get fired because the owners would be unhappy with the concessions he made last week.

Odd that.
They are making a show of solidarity for public consumption, especially when they are getting torched in public opinion for locking the players out in the first place. That doesn't mean the internal divisions aren't there.

Hammer79 is offline  
Old
01-10-2013, 12:01 AM
  #111
LadyJet26
GO JETS GO!!!
 
LadyJet26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,008
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
They are making a show of solidarity for public consumption, especially when they are getting torched in public opinion for locking the players out in the first place. That doesn't mean the internal divisions aren't there.
This.

I highly doubt Mark Chipman & the rest of TNSE wanted a lockout in the first place but because they're the new kids in the NHL ownership game they had little choice. That's really what the owners of a new franchise wanted after finally getting a team back. There are definitely internal divisions. I know for a fact not all the owners agree with Jeremy Jacobs.

LadyJet26 is offline  
Old
01-10-2013, 12:19 AM
  #112
*Injektilo
Registered User
 
*Injektilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: France
Posts: 11,664
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
They are making a show of solidarity for public consumption, especially when they are getting torched in public opinion for locking the players out in the first place. That doesn't mean the internal divisions aren't there.
Losing money (as the hardline owners perceive it) is less important than optics? You don't get very far in business with that kind of mentality. And I'd think most of these guys know a thing or two about making a buck.

If the owners believe Bettman gave far too much in the negotiations, we would see them percolate way further than hearsay. I continue to maintain that he won't be fired anytime soon.

*Injektilo is offline  
Old
01-10-2013, 12:28 AM
  #113
Hammer79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,962
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Injektilo View Post
Losing money (as the hardline owners perceive it) is less important than optics? You don't get very far in business with that kind of mentality. And I'd think most of these guys know a thing or two about making a buck.

If the owners believe Bettman gave far too much in the negotiations, we would see them percolate way further than hearsay. I continue to maintain that he won't be fired anytime soon.
Can you imagine how bad their PR would be if they rejected it at this point? Only the hardest of hard core pro owner fans would stand behind them. The public and sponsors would be livid about getting their hopes up only to have them dashed by a BoG vote. Once Bettman announced the tentative agreement to the press, the owner's hands were tied.

Bettman is 61, he won't need to be 'fired', at least not officially. The BoG might strongly suggest he retire though.

Hammer79 is offline  
Old
01-10-2013, 12:32 AM
  #114
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,896
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Injektilo View Post
And I'd think most of these guys know a thing or two about making a buck.
Except when it comes to hockey operations for at least one of them.

Barney Gumble is offline  
Old
01-10-2013, 12:47 AM
  #115
LadyJet26
GO JETS GO!!!
 
LadyJet26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,008
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Injektilo View Post
Losing money (as the hardline owners perceive it) is less important than optics? You don't get very far in business with that kind of mentality. And I'd think most of these guys know a thing or two about making a buck.

If the owners believe Bettman gave far too much in the negotiations, we would see them percolate way further than hearsay. I continue to maintain that he won't be fired anytime soon.
If the owners had backed out of this deal, there would an epic PR disaster. One the NHL probably would never recover from. That being said, the only reason there was a deal is because the sponsors threatened to pull out.

LadyJet26 is offline  
Old
01-10-2013, 01:06 AM
  #116
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 17,958
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanucksnWpg View Post
If the owners had backed out of this deal, there would an epic PR disaster. One the NHL probably would never recover from. That being said, the only reason there was a deal is because the sponsors threatened to pull out.
Media speculation the sponsors were putting enough pressure on to get a deal done, is just that. Given the partisan coverage of the lockout it's hard to take anything seriously.

Was the sponsors? Was it the owners? Was it Bettman overriding Jacobs? Was it the NHL getting the deal it secretly want? We have no idea what went on behind closed doors. We may never.

Whatever, hockey's back and both sides got an OK deal. We'll get a playoffs. Let's shambles that was the last 2 years die.

me2 is offline  
Old
01-11-2013, 03:34 PM
  #117
AndyPipkin
PSN: Lord_Of_War
 
AndyPipkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,489
vCash: 341
Burke fired....miss a little miss a lot.

AndyPipkin is offline  
Old
01-13-2013, 01:43 PM
  #118
Ryp37
Registered User
 
Ryp37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,182
vCash: 50
so Thomas Hickey just got waived, wouldn't mind giving him a chance since we're now in the habit of picking up former top 5 picks

Ryp37 is offline  
Old
01-13-2013, 02:16 PM
  #119
Huntershin Karuk
Horvat is Horfat
 
Huntershin Karuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Port Coquitlam, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,531
vCash: 500
That was such an awful pick by LA and everyone knew it at the time.

Imagine if they'd had taken Alzner instead.

Huntershin Karuk is offline  
Old
01-13-2013, 02:51 PM
  #120
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,896
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryp37 View Post
so Thomas Hickey just got waived, wouldn't mind giving him a chance since we're now in the habit of picking up former top 5 picks
Even if you ignore last season (their Cup victory) - a team in their position (well stocked prospect system & lots of picks) can afford to take 'huge swings at the bat' in the hopes of a 'home run'.

Barney Gumble is offline  
Old
01-13-2013, 05:41 PM
  #121
canuck4life16
Registered User
 
canuck4life16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancity
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,532
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryp37 View Post
so Thomas Hickey just got waived, wouldn't mind giving him a chance since we're now in the habit of picking up former top 5 picks
some team will pick him who desperate of young players/defenseman........he also not very big

canuck4life16 is online now  
Old
01-14-2013, 10:19 AM
  #122
crazycanuck
Registered User
 
crazycanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,287
vCash: 500
Don Cherry with another hilarious rambling on twitter today:

Quote:
@CoachsCornerCBC
I've had gold fish all my life. I have them down in my basement beside the tv. They've always been fancy gold fish which I've always liked.


@CoachsCornerCBC
I had them in Boston, right thru to Colorado and here. But I'm not going to get fancy ones anymore. They are tough to raise.

@CoachsCornerCBC
I have a tip for people that are serious about gold fish. My big gold fish hasn't been acting right for a month swimming sideways at the top

@CoachsCornerCBC
I was clearing stones and changing the water the other day and I though I wonder if he would like warm water. So in a quarter of the tank I

@CoachsCornerCBC
filled it up with beautiful warm water. Bingo. He's a whole new guy and back to hims normal self. I am off to the prospects game this

@CoachsCornerCBC
afternoon, when I get back I'm going to put in a heater.
Haha, I love Don's random ramblings, just so awesome.

crazycanuck is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 01:18 PM
  #123
Taelin
Resident Hipster
 
Taelin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,107
vCash: 500
TEAM1040:
Quote:
Former @WHLGiants standout.....RT @mikeheika: Stars trade Mark Fistric to Edmonton for third round pick. Will allow kids to fight for spot.
If Fistric could have been had for a 3rd rounder, why didn't we trade for him?!

Taelin is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 01:22 PM
  #124
Scurr
Registered User
 
Scurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whalley
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
TEAM1040:

If Fistric could have been had for a 3rd rounder, why didn't we trade for him?!
We'd have to beat that offer with our 2nd probably... not worth it for a depth defensemen.

Scurr is offline  
Old
01-14-2013, 01:23 PM
  #125
Tiranis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 20,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
TEAM1040:

If Fistric could have been had for a 3rd rounder, why didn't we trade for him?!
Because he's an NHL regular and last thing we need is an unhappy player in the room. Do you really think Fistric would be happy that a team acquired him just to have him sit for 75% of the season or more?

Tiranis is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:45 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.