I don't think what SoH says is THAT outrageous. We are not talking about Sidney Crosby here. We are talking about Kyle Brodziak. Sure, he is a good player, but he is not God's gift to hockey, and SoH might be right that his value is probably at its highest right now. KB is probably not going to get a whole lot of time on the 1st/2nd line this season, and will go back to his usual 30-35 points (pro-rated, of course).
I don't agree with SoH that we must capitalize on his high value and trade him, though. We are not in the business of flipping houses here. He fills a certain role on this team, and until we have someone who can step into that 3C spot, his value to the Wild is greater than the value we can get in a trade for him.
The Wild had their chance to trade Brodziak, at the deadline last season. They chose to re-sign him as he fits the mold of what they're looking for players up and down their organization; grit, character, two-way play, want to, etc. Not to mention he fills an integral part of their NHL roster so prospects are not slotted into that role when they're not ready.
Complaining about Brodziak (especially now) is pretty damn predictable though.
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After Meaningless Win - 3/29/12 - Game 77 | SoH-"Who knows, that could have cost us a Cup tonight." | Dooohkay
i wouldn't trade brodz, he is a capable 2nd line ctr at a reasonable cap hit. next year after cullen is gone he will be a perfect 3rd line ctr assuming grandlund is on the 2nd line. i would only trade him IF phillips or somebody was capable of equal or better production.
That's the exact thing with Brodziak- he is an integral part of this team. He played admirably well on the 2nd line for a long time- but he is truly a 3rd line center and one of the best in the league IMO. You NEED and KEEP guys like that. Every time you have a prospect that could *maybe* use to replace a roster player, do you? No, absolutely not. Teams KILL to have players like that, and just because we could trade him doesn't mean it's a good idea.
brodz has gotten better every year, too. not at all high end or flashy in the slightest, but don't want to be without him over the course of a season. there are oiler fans that are still pissed they let him walk.
brodz has gotten better every year, too. not at all high end or flashy in the slightest, but don't want to be without him over the course of a season. there are oiler fans that are still pissed they let him walk.
Of course they're pissed! Before they drafted RNH, he would have been their ideal #1 center.
You don't make trades because player is at "his maximum value". We need Brodziak.C.
"Max value" for a player isn't the trigger for a trade. That trigger for the Wild is the relative strength at forward and relative weakness at defense. Deciding who to trade is where values come into play. In the case the Wild would trade a forward. Where is the wise choice? I've already laid out the case for Brodziak, and that makes him an enticing trade chip. Sure, you could trade Cullen instead (assuming his limited NTC isn't a problem), but is he going to bring back the player you need? You have to give something to get something. If you only deal away players that have low value, you'll get players with the same low value in return. Organizations that consistently win see opportunities to sell high and buy low. You can't wait for your player to lose value to your organization and then try to sell low and buy high.
But the bottom line for me is that Brodziak is not a "need" going forward on this team. I'll save that title for the star players, not your common 3rd-line center. That's why he'd be my trading chip for a depth defensemen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo
Brodziak was a) one of our healthiest forwards last year b) showed a lot of teamwork c) scored 6 more goals and d) showed some consistently last season and why am I even arguing this?
If you're brain was hurting already . . .
A) Health is not something to count on, and your team is not going to be a big contender with him filling in on the top-2 lines. I'd give Brodziak a few points for being a healthy player, but that's only very important is he was one of my top players. You build a roster with talent and usefulness to the team, not if you think they'll play 82 games.
B) Another relative term. You know what though, his teamwork could have been better at keeping pucks out of our nets. And will his "teamwork" be needed down the road when we have prospective leader after leader joining the fray?
C) I'll expound on what I've said before. Brodziak's goal increase can mostly be explained by an increase in ice time. His minutes per goal of even strength and power play ice time improved (I'm excluding SH time as it's not a fair basis), but only by about 12%. However on the total points side, his minutes per point was nearly the same, showing a very slight decline in production last year.
Basically with a roster we have now and the prospects in the pipeline, why is there a surprise here? Shoot, you'd think I'd said to trade Koivu. Brodziak is that untouchable? In what world? I am surprised you're arguing this so strongly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo
Here's the thing SoH; even when I'm pissy, I at least recognize the outstanding nature of this team's rebuilding. Have you even said one thing positive about this organization?
It wasn't that many years ago that I'd get on your case for being almost entirely negative towards the organization. And this was when we were making the playoffs and won a division title with a team many thought would be good for a long while. I just find it . . . interesting that you're saying this to me now.
You know fully well that I haven't been negative towards everything, and I'm not going to be all positive until this organization gives me reason to on the NHL ice. Until then I'll be very skeptical, which is the attitude I should have towards this organization considering the recent results.
skepticism is certainly your right, but given what we've seen out of Fletcher it is unreasonable. Our prospect pool has never been better. The team we will ice this year has never been better. All "on paper", i know, but the organization is in better shape than it has ever been. We've succeeded with much less.
It wasn't that many years ago that I'd get on your case for being almost entirely negative towards the organization. And this was when we were making the playoffs and won a division title with a team many thought would be good for a long while. I just find it . . . interesting that you're saying this to me now.
And for good reason. There are two ways to be successful. Long-term and short term (Detroit/Chicago(Tampa Bay). The Wild didn't win a playoff series. And they weren't built for long term success. So far, my prediction with Riser has come true and I was one of the only ones to openly criticize Riser early on.
The thing is, you can see the difference between Riser and Fletcher. I was critical of Fletcher early on especially with the Leddy and Kobasew trades but his draft picks have shown a lot more success than Riser's.
And for good reason. There are two ways to be successful. Long-term and short term (Detroit/Chicago(Tampa Bay). The Wild didn't win a playoff series. And they weren't built for long term success. So far, my prediction with Riser has come true and I was one of the only ones to openly criticize Riser early on.
The thing is, you can see the difference between Riser and Fletcher. I was critical of Fletcher early on especially with the Leddy and Kobasew trades but his draft picks have shown a lot more success than Riser's.
Rather have a GM that can draft and is willing to trade, even if that means missing on a trade, than GM that can neither draft nor make a trade.
Suter, Gilbert, and Spurgeon can bring the offense from the blueline. Toss in Brodin and Scandella when they are healthy, and the Wild will be fine in that respect.
Not to mention that Heatley and Cullen can play the point on the PP.
The Wild had their chance to trade Brodziak, at the deadline last season. They chose to re-sign him as he fits the mold of what they're looking for players up and down their organization; grit, character, two-way play, want to, etc. Not to mention he fills an integral part of their NHL roster so prospects are not slotted into that role when they're not ready.
Complaining about Brodziak (especially now) is pretty damn predictable though.
Predictable? From somebody who was openly rooting for us to lose games as early on as October last year and called the playoff run of 2002-03 "one of the worst things to happen to this franchise"? No...
