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NY Post 01/14/2013: Gaborik switches sides [to LW]

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01-14-2013, 01:58 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Matt4776 View Post
You said you feel Callahan or Hagelin (whom I firmly believe will always be the superior player to Kreider, but that could also be because I'm a biased Michigan student who had the pleasure of seeing him play two years ago on a daily basis) are better suited to the role I was describing (i.e. the top 6 role w/ Stepan), to which I said I fundamentally disagreed. Unless I misunderstood your comment, I'm not sure what you mean here.

And in addition, I've never stated he's a third liner at worst. He has never been a defensive type player, and never will. Could he thrive on a third-line scoring type role? Sure. But that's not how our current third line is currently built. If we had a say, Artem Anisimov, as our third line center, then I believe Kreider, Anisimov, and say a JT Miller type player could form an incredibly effective third line. However, he isn't going to get anything done with a Brian Boyle type center.
You said that I feel that he is "a better fit on the 3rd line". That's not what I said, or what I meant to say. I think Callahan and Hagelin are better players at this point, and are thus better suited for top-six duty. Frankly, I don't think Kreider is suited for a 3rd line role at all because he has so much work to do on his defensive game. However, I stand by my statements that if he can't hack it in that role, then he belongs in CT where he can fine tune those facets of the game.

I'm very high on the kid and I badly want him to succeed. However, I want a cup far more than that. I want my best players in the best spots to make this a formidable hockey team. It's a short season and we can't afford to make sacrifices just to try and put a rookie into a spot to get him more scoring chances. Especially when you consider this may be our only shot with Nash and Gaborik up front.

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01-14-2013, 01:59 PM
  #102
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Okay fine. No Kreider in the top 6. Still no need to shift everyone.


Nash:Richards:Callahan
Hagelin:Stepan:Gaborik.

I don't bye this 'stepan right hand shot uh..so gaborik on lw would be better).
Stepan did just fine setting up Gaborik on the right last year.

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01-14-2013, 02:04 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
You said that I feel that he is "a better fit on the 3rd line". That's not what I said, or what I meant to say. I think Callahan and Hagelin are better players at this point, and are thus better suited for top-six duty. Frankly, I don't think Kreider is suited for a 3rd line role at all because he has so much work to do on his defensive game. However, I stand by my statements that if he can't hack it in that role, then he belongs in CT where he can fine tune those facets of the game.

I'm very high on the kid and I badly want him to succeed. However, I want a cup far more than that. I want my best players in the best spots to make this a formidable hockey team. It's a short season and we can't afford to make sacrifices just to try and put a rookie into a spot to get him more scoring chances. Especially when you consider this may be our only shot with Nash and Gaborik up front.
I agree with you that all I care about winning more than Kreider's development. And for that reason, I hope Glen brings an additional third/fourth line tweener in before the start of the season (although I think if he was planning on it he would've done so already). By trading Dubi and Arty, Glen bet that Kreider was gonna be ready for full-time NHL duty this year. I would love to have the luxury of being able to send Chris back to the Whale to work on his defensive game if he struggles here, but in reality, that would leave us with:

Hagelin-Richards-Nash
Gaborik-Stepan-Callahan
Pyatt-Boyle-Asham
Rupp-Halpren-Haley

That third line scares me.

I simply think it's best short-term interest for this team to get Chris going early so our third line could look like Pyatt-Boyle-Kreider/Callahan (whichever way you want to look at it) instead of Asham, because again, this could be our only year with both Gabby and Nash.

And I'm sorry if you misunderstood me, I meant "If you think Kreider is a better fit on the third compared to Callahan on the third" not simply Kreider a better fit on third, so that was just a misunderstanding.

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01-14-2013, 02:11 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Matt4776 View Post
I agree with you that all I care about winning more than Kreider's development. And for that reason, I hope Glen brings an additional third/fourth line tweener in before the start of the season (although I think if he was planning on it he would've done so already). By trading Dubi and Arty, Glen bet that Kreider was gonna be ready for full-time NHL duty this year. I would love to have the luxury of being able to send Chris back to the Whale to work on his defensive game if he struggles here, but in reality, that would leave us with:

Hagelin-Richards-Nash
Gaborik-Stepan-Callahan
Pyatt-Boyle-Asham
Rupp-Halpren-Haley

That third line scares me.

I simply think it's best short-term interest for this team to get Chris going early so our third line could look like Pyatt-Boyle-Kreider/Callahan (whichever way you want to look at it) instead of Asham, because again, this could be our only year with both Gabby and Nash.

And I'm sorry if you misunderstood me, I meant "If you think Kreider is a better fit on the third compared to Callahan on the third" not simply Kreider a better fit on third, so that was just a misunderstanding.
You're probably right in the sense that it made it a little easier to let go of AA in the Nash deal, however, it would have been tough to pull it off without including Dubi purely for financial reasons. I agree that the lines look a little scary without Kreider plugged in there, but if the kid isn't ready, then that's the reality we face. For that reason, I was hoping Slats would invite a 3rd liner to camp to provide a little insurance. I was looking at Gilbert Brule as an option. We just can't pin our hopes on Kreider if he's not ready for the job.

No problem. I apologize if my response was rude. Long day at work.

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01-14-2013, 02:20 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
You're probably right in the sense that it made it a little easier to let go of AA in the Nash deal, however, it would have been tough to pull it off without including Dubi purely for financial reasons. I agree that the lines look a little scary without Kreider plugged in there, but if the kid isn't ready, then that's the reality we face. For that reason, I was hoping Slats would invite a 3rd liner to camp to provide a little insurance. I was looking at Gilbert Brule as an option. We just can't pin our hopes on Kreider if he's not ready for the job.

No problem. I apologize if my response was rude. Long day at work.
No need to apologize- wasn't taken as rude. Just wanted to clear it up is all.

But I would love a Brule type addition- and we'll probably see some sort of addition prior to the deadline.

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01-14-2013, 02:28 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What makes no sense?

Torts obviously wants Stepan and Gaborik together. Stepan is able to feed Gaborik using his forehand on the rush if Gaborik plays LW. Why would Nash make the change if hes playing with Richards and this is Torts' thought process?
What makes no sense is that you are taking a player (Gaborik) who has played less than 5 games as a Ranger and fewer than that interntaionally off his natural position so that Stepan can get him the puck using his forehand.

Nash, who has played significant minutes and games as LW'er is an absolute better option for Stepan than Gaborik is. Reason being is that he is, because he's played there more often, more comfortable playing LW than Gabby is.

Richards and Gaborik showed great chemistry down the stretch.

Gabby scored 12 goals in 21 games from March on. I would bet that Richards assisted on 9 of them.

What makes no sense is that here we have 48 games. A slow start can kill a teams playoff hopes. Why enhance the probability of a slow start by shifting one of your most talented players to a position he's played less than 10 games at in the last 5 years.

Sorry, but this is a concern for me. I could care less if Torts is concerned.

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01-14-2013, 02:32 PM
  #107
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and for the record, I would not put Hagelin in the top 6. Not that he's not good enough, I believe that eh is. But more because I think having Kreider play with Boyle is going to generate zero offence and as such stunt Kreider's development offensively.

Kreider - Richards - Gaborik
Nash - Stepan - Callahan
Hagelin - Boyle - Pyatt

that would be my top 9

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01-14-2013, 02:38 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
and for the record, I would not put Hagelin in the top 6. Not that he's not good enough, I believe that eh is. But more because I think having Kreider play with Boyle is going to generate zero offence and as such stunt Kreider's development offensively.
Why wouldn't that be the case with Hagelin, too?

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01-14-2013, 02:42 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
and for the record, I would not put Hagelin in the top 6. Not that he's not good enough, I believe that eh is. But more because I think having Kreider play with Boyle is going to generate zero offence and as such stunt Kreider's development offensively.

Kreider - Richards - Gaborik
Nash - Stepan - Callahan
Hagelin - Boyle - Pyatt

that would be my top 9
Nash-Richards-Callahan
Kredier-Stepan-Gaborik
Hagelin-Boyle-Pyatt
Rupp-Halpern-Asham

These would be my lines based on fit and/or chemistry wise.

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01-14-2013, 05:02 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I'm firmly of the belief that Kreider will be a more potent offensive weapon when paired with a guy who can feed him the puck. However, I'm not in the group of people who feel like he should be handed a top-six role based on his playoff performance. He needs to learn to play both sides of the puck if he's going to be an effective player on this team. Torts wants guys to earn his ice-time. Not sure why so many fans don't feel the same way.
Agreed. I don't think its an issue of "he needs talent to be good" as much as its "he needs a playmaker to score goals," which is way less problematic. Plenty of great shooters and useful players fall into that category.

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01-14-2013, 05:11 PM
  #111
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If Gabby does not rack up a lot of goals before the deadline I think we seriously should consider moving him . He has been and always will be a fragile player . We could get in on the Getzlaf/Perry grab at the deadline and I would sooner have one of those guys playing the Pen/Bruins/Flyers in the playoffs than Gabby .

I know we lose a year because Getzlaf & Perry would need to be signed while Gabby already is for next season . Anaheim could possibly consider the deal because they would have a signed asset in Gabby for 2014 and then they could move him at the 2015 deadline for something .

I want a Cup...we missed out on an easy crack at it last year because we did not make the crucial moves . Sometimes you gotta give to get !!! Flame away .
I thought we missed an easy crack at it b/c Howson wouldn't take the deal yet lol.
We're fine we eventually built the team we have now and it's a phenomenal team by any standard. If it fails it'll be horribly dissapointing but it's clearly a very talent loaded, top to bottom well constucted well coached group of players at all ages.

There's excited dreaming during the preseason and then there's legit champonship expectation. We've got legit champ expectation.

That said I don't disagree. I don't get to watch other teams but Gab's penchant for getting hurt does always keep me uneasy.

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01-14-2013, 05:16 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Playing Kreider in the top-6 over Callahan is asinine. The lines will change throughout the year. I'm sure Pyatt, Boyle and Kreider will all get top-6 time at some point. Hagelin was a difference-maker every time he was on the ice last year.


Agree. Let Kreider earn top-6 PT.

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01-14-2013, 05:22 PM
  #113
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This is much ado about nothing. Torts' line combos last about as long as carnival rides.

If anything I think Torts wants him to be able to make the switch so he has more flexibility in jumbling his lines. It's nothing permanent.

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01-14-2013, 05:26 PM
  #114
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Everyone seems to thin Kreider is a lock to start the season in the NHL... he had a good debut, but he hasn't been big man on campus in CT thus far.

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01-14-2013, 05:34 PM
  #115
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Everyone seems to thin Kreider is a lock to start the season in the NHL... he had a good debut, but he hasn't been big man on campus in CT thus far.
There really aren't other options.

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01-14-2013, 06:10 PM
  #116
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As good a time as any for my first post on this board i guess.

Hagelin and/or Callahan playing 3rd line because at this point they're better hockey players than Kreider sound wrong to me. if Hagelin can use his speed effectively on a 3rd line i don't see why Kreider couldn't.

but then again can't say i've seen much of kreider except PO's last year. We don't get much AHL coverage here in Sweden

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01-14-2013, 06:14 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Torts wants Kreider to earn his way up the depth chart, nothing wrong with that.

Boyle is a Boston College guy, the two of them will have a lot to talk about. Pyatt being on the RW with them, its not a bad line.

Eventually Kreider will move up. He had natural chemistry with Stepan.
lol.

Good luck to Torts trying to establish Kreider into the NHL by playing on a pure shutdown line..

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01-14-2013, 06:15 PM
  #118
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If you asked me to rank the 6 forwards listed in terms of how good they were in the defensive end of the rink, Callahan would be one and Gabby and Stepan would be no. 5 and 6. It makes sense to me that where possible you put one player's strength to cover another's weakness.

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01-14-2013, 06:16 PM
  #119
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lol.

Good luck to Torts trying to establish Kreider into the NHL by playing on a pure shutdown line..
Who made our 3rd line the official shutdown line? Is this from Torts himself?

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01-14-2013, 06:20 PM
  #120
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Who made our 3rd line the official shutdown line? Is this from Torts himself?
Yeah.

Torts made his shutdown line Fedotenko Boyle and Prust. Hence, all their absurdly low offensvie zone starts.

Whoever is put on Boyle's line will start shifts in their own end against the Malkins and Girouxs of the league.

Hence why Callahan should be on the 3rd line.

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01-14-2013, 06:27 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Yeah.

Torts made his shutdown line Fedotenko Boyle and Prust. Hence, all their absurdly low offensvie zone starts.

Whoever is put on Boyle's line will start shifts in their own end against the Malkins and Girouxs of the league.

Hence why Callahan should be on the 3rd line.
And with Fedotenko and Prust no longer on the team you don't think that changes things?

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01-14-2013, 06:29 PM
  #122
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I really don't see the big deal here, if it works out great if it doesn't its not like torts is going to wait it out for gabs to get going if he's not producing hell be moved right back to the right side people make it seam like this is a set in stone thing and hell never play the right side again, only good can come out of this IMO.

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01-14-2013, 06:29 PM
  #123
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And with Fedotenko and Prust no longer on the team you don't think that changes things?
Nope, who else will draw defensive zone faceoffs? Stepan? lol. Richards? lmao.Halpern maybe if he bounces back, but you don't want plugs like Rupp and Asham getting stuck in their own end. Boyle should be placed with 2 defensively responsible players to form a great shutdown group, the two players are Pyatt and Callahan.

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01-14-2013, 06:34 PM
  #124
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Nope, who else will draw defensive zone faceoffs? Stepan? lol. Richards? lmao.Halpern maybe if he bounces back, but you don't want plugs like Rupp and Asham getting stuck in their own end. Boyle should be placed with 2 defensively responsible players to form a great shutdown group, the two players are Pyatt and Callahan.
But reducing Callahan's offence by giving him that role kinda puts us right back where we were last year.

Callahan has too much skill to give him an exuberant amount of defensive zone starts.

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01-14-2013, 06:46 PM
  #125
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But reducing Callahan's offence by giving him that role kinda puts us right back where we were last year.

Callahan has too much skill to give him an exuberant amount of defensive zone starts.
Well no one else in our lineup can fill up that role.

I would much rather give offensive starts to Hagelin and Kreider so they don't turn out like grinders. And I believe adding Callahan to our bottom 6 makes it one of the strengths of the team.

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