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Old
01-14-2013, 01:59 PM
  #151
InfinityIggy
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Originally Posted by Chungo View Post
A quick question:

Trade deadline scenario:

Toronto trades:
- Kessel
- 1st
- Biggs (or similar value)
- Bozak (or similar value)

to Anaheim for
- Getzalf
- Perry

Lets just start off here for conversation... What needs to be added/taken away, do conditions have to put in place, etc.
Pretty sure Ducks fans wont like this, turn the 1st, Biggs, Bozak into something of real value like Gardiner...then maybe you have got something.

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01-14-2013, 02:05 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Pretty sure Ducks fans wont like this, turn the 1st, Biggs, Bozak into something of real value like Gardiner...then maybe you have got something.
I have no idea what would be good value after adding Kessel into this deal, which would probably be hypothetical anyway.

But if something along the line of Gardiner, Kessel and 1st were traded in the same package than Getzlaf and Perry would need to be signed immediately.... It would be a big gamble on the Leafs to part ways for rental players.

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01-14-2013, 02:10 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Pretty sure Ducks fans wont like this, turn the 1st, Biggs, Bozak into something of real value like Gardiner...then maybe you have got something.
For 2 rentals? No way.

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01-14-2013, 02:34 PM
  #154
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Even if they Ducks did decided to trade Perry AND Getzlaf, which is ludicrous enough, they could certain net themselves better prospects than what the Leafs could provide.

As far as a young roster player is concerned, if they were to trade Perry/Getzlaf, they could also do a lot better than Gardiner.

Only in a Rick Nash/Dany Heatly situation could this work, where a star player demands a trade to only one market could this even be feasible.

There have been no rumblings from what I've heard about either Perry and Getzlaf being unhappy with the Ducks organization or secretly harboring some desire to play for Toronto. They also played great under Boudreau, and a strong start under him could make a re-signing with Anaheim even easier. They certainly both had enough of Carlye.

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01-14-2013, 02:34 PM
  #155
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Pens trade Morrow, Tangradi and a first for Kessel? Fair?

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01-14-2013, 02:43 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Even if they Ducks did decided to trade Perry AND Getzlaf, which is ludicrous enough, they could certain net themselves better prospects than what the Leafs could provide.

As far as a young roster player is concerned, if they were to trade Perry/Getzlaf, they could also do a lot better than Gardiner.

Only in a Rick Nash/Dany Heatly situation could this work, where a star player demands a trade to only one market could this even be feasible.

There have been no rumblings from what I've heard about either Perry and Getzlaf being unhappy with the Ducks organization or secretly harboring some desire to play for Toronto. They also played great under Boudreau, and a strong start under him could make a re-signing with Anaheim even easier. They certainly both had enough of Carlye.
I've noticed a lot of your interpretation is based around your opinion of certain franchises and delving into the mind of Getzlaf and Perry.

How do you know what their situation is or how they felt about Carlyle... If that was the case maybe we could have said Richards hated Torts a year ago.

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01-14-2013, 02:47 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Chungo View Post
I've noticed a lot of your interpretation is based around your opinion of certain franchises and delving into the mind of Getzlaf and Perry.

How do you know what their situation is or how they felt about Carlyle... If that was the case maybe we could have said Richards hated Torts a year ago.
No, it was known and reported widely how much Richards loved and respected Torts and wanted to play for him. They won a cup together and Torts had nothing to do with Richards going to Dallas.

Getzlaf and Perry won a cup with Carlye, but more recently were on a team that stopped playing for him, were both unproductive under him and were rejuvenated after he was fired.

As per this article "Getzlaf is particularly attached to the community, having moved his family (two children) into the area and built a new home."

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-on-ducks.html

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01-14-2013, 02:57 PM
  #158
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This is stupid, Kessel wont be going anywhere. If Nonis doesnt re-sign him hell be out the door as well.
I sincerely hope you are wrong. Kessel is easily the most overrated player in the NHL . People that support him will point to the fact that he scored 82 points last year, however those same people ignore the fact that in scoring those points he ended up as a minus 10.

When your premier scorer is on the ice for more goals against than goals for those 82 points become pretty meaningless, and this is a big reason why the Leafs missed the playoffs last year.

Not to mention that he is soft and crumbles in big games as evidenced by every Leafs Bruins game over the last 4 years.

Kessel does have value as a secondary scorer on a good team's second line and on the power play, but he is currently severely miscast as the front line player on a weak, big market Leafs team.

I also don't believe for a second that he has any interest in playing in Toronto past his current contract, so the Leafs would be wise to consider dealing him now. They won't though just like they refused to deal Sundin when the time was right, and ended up losing him for nothing.

Trade Kessel and rebuild.

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01-14-2013, 03:18 PM
  #159
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^ **** this thread.

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01-14-2013, 03:32 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Billy6 View Post
I sincerely hope you are wrong. Kessel is easily the most overrated player in the NHL . People that support him will point to the fact that he scored 82 points last year, however those same people ignore the fact that in scoring those points he ended up as a minus 10.

When your premier scorer is on the ice for more goals against than goals for those 82 points become pretty meaningless, and this is a big reason why the Leafs missed the playoffs last year.

Not to mention that he is soft and crumbles in big games as evidenced by every Leafs Bruins game over the last 4 years.

Kessel does have value as a secondary scorer on a good team's second line and on the power play, but he is currently severely miscast as the front line player on a weak, big market Leafs team.

I also don't believe for a second that he has any interest in playing in Toronto past his current contract, so the Leafs would be wise to consider dealing him now. They won't though just like they refused to deal Sundin when the time was right, and ended up losing him for nothing.

Trade Kessel and rebuild.
I'm done with this board. Just yesterday I read someone claim that Kessel's worth less now than when he was traded. Do you know who's scored more goals than Phil Kessel over the last 3 seasons? Gaborik, Iginla, Kovalchuk, Marleau, Perry, Ovechkin, and Stamkos. A whopping seven players. And yet he's a "secondary" scoring option. That's laughable. You heard it here first folks -- Phil Kessel's a second line player. And the reason we have to trade our PPG second line winger is because of his +/-. Because the fact he was a minus player on the 5th worst team in the league is shocking.

Wow. Turn in your Leafs card on your way out.

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01-14-2013, 03:35 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
No, it was known and reported widely how much Richards loved and respected Torts and wanted to play for him. They won a cup together and Torts had nothing to do with Richards going to Dallas.

Getzlaf and Perry won a cup with Carlye, but more recently were on a team that stopped playing for him, were both unproductive under him and were rejuvenated after he was fired.

As per this article "Getzlaf is particularly attached to the community, having moved his family (two children) into the area and built a new home."

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-on-ducks.html
wrong

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01-14-2013, 04:26 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
I'm done with this board. Just yesterday I read someone claim that Kessel's worth less now than when he was traded. Do you know who's scored more goals than Phil Kessel over the last 3 seasons? Gaborik, Iginla, Kovalchuk, Marleau, Perry, Ovechkin, and Stamkos. A whopping seven players. And yet he's a "secondary" scoring option. That's laughable. You heard it here first folks -- Phil Kessel's a second line player. And the reason we have to trade our PPG second line winger is because of his +/-. Because the fact he was a minus player on the 5th worst team in the league is shocking.

Wow. Turn in your Leafs card on your way out.
I stand behind everything I said. I speak the truth about the Leafs not some BS unconditional love, endless support talk through my blue and white rose coloured glasses, because lets face it, this team has been a running joke since the 60's and quite frankly I'm sick of it.

Here's the simple facts: if any player is such a defensive liability that it outweighs his offensive worth then what you end up with is a player whose value to his team is skewed greatly when only his offensive stats are taken into consideration. This is the case with Phil Kessel.

And for the record I said Kessel was a secondary option on a good team. He can masquerade as a legit first liner on a non-playoff team, but that doesn't change the fact that any team with Kessel as their go to guy has no chance at winning anything significant.

You can bet on that, just ask the 2006 US world junior team and the Boston Bruins if you don't agree.


Last edited by Billy6: 01-14-2013 at 04:42 PM.
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01-14-2013, 04:43 PM
  #163
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Now Kessel isn't even a real 1st line player.

Who knew?

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01-14-2013, 04:52 PM
  #164
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I stand behind everything I said. I speak the truth about the Leafs not some BS unconditional love, endless support talk through my blue and white rose coloured glasses, because lets face it, this team has been a running joke since the 60's and quite frankly I'm sick of it.

Here's the simple facts: if any player is such a defensive liability that it outweighs his offensive worth then what you end up with is a player whose value to his team is skewed greatly when only his offensive stats are taken into consideration. This is the case with Phil Kessel.

And for the record I said Kessel was a secondary option on a good team. He can masquerade as a legit first liner on a non-playoff team, but that doesn't change the fact that any team with Kessel as their go to guy has no chance at winning anything significant.

You can bet on that, just ask the 2006 US world junior team and the Boston Bruins if you don't agree.
Kessel is a bit one-dimensional but he was brought in for his scoring and which he has been doing. He has been hitting the 30+ goal mark every season and just came off a career also complimented Lupul who to had a career season. Kessel may not be the player who build around but given with what the Leafs currently have, they simply cannot lose his offence. The Leafs would be better off getting a 1C than to trade Phil for prospects and picks would take another 3-5 years to develop. Besides Kessel loves playing in Toronto, he'll most likely be resigned in the following summer.

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01-14-2013, 05:02 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Billy6 View Post
I sincerely hope you are wrong. Kessel is easily the most overrated player in the NHL . People that support him will point to the fact that he scored 82 points last year, however those same people ignore the fact that in scoring those points he ended up as a minus 10.
You need to use +/- as a comparison within a team, not a general around the league statistic.

Take a look on NHL.com and tell me how many Maple Leafs were - players. Get back to me when you find the trend. Thanks.


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01-14-2013, 05:03 PM
  #166
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I'm done with this board. Just yesterday I read someone claim that Kessel's worth less now than when he was traded. Do you know who's scored more goals than Phil Kessel over the last 3 seasons? Gaborik, Iginla, Kovalchuk, Marleau, Perry, Ovechkin, and Stamkos. A whopping seven players. And yet he's a "secondary" scoring option. That's laughable. You heard it here first folks -- Phil Kessel's a second line player. And the reason we have to trade our PPG second line winger is because of his +/-. Because the fact he was a minus player on the 5th worst team in the league is shocking.

Wow. Turn in your Leafs card on your way out.
Hard not to get upset with people on this site sometimes... clueless.

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01-14-2013, 05:06 PM
  #167
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Here's the simple facts: if any player is such a defensive liability that it outweighs his offensive worth then what you end up with is a player whose value to his team is skewed greatly when only his offensive stats are taken into consideration. This is the case with Phil Kessel.
So serious question, would you trade Taylor Hall and RNH? And rate them as secondary players?

Would love to hear your opinion on that one.

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01-14-2013, 05:07 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
I'm done with this board. Just yesterday I read someone claim that Kessel's worth less now than when he was traded. Do you know who's scored more goals than Phil Kessel over the last 3 seasons? Gaborik, Iginla, Kovalchuk, Marleau, Perry, Ovechkin, and Stamkos. A whopping seven players. And yet he's a "secondary" scoring option. That's laughable. You heard it here first folks -- Phil Kessel's a second line player. And the reason we have to trade our PPG second line winger is because of his +/-. Because the fact he was a minus player on the 5th worst team in the league is shocking.

Wow. Turn in your Leafs card on your way out.
Kessel is clearly worth less now, for the same reason upcoming UFAs very rarely return a huge haul - teams typically aren't willing to move significant assets for players with a year or two left on their deals. Jordan Staal is the best example of a big return recently, and Carolina knew they'd be keeping him.

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01-14-2013, 05:10 PM
  #169
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Kessel is clearly worth less now, for the same reason upcoming UFAs very rarely return a huge haul - teams typically aren't willing to move significant assets for players with a year or two left on their deals. Jordan Staal is the best example of a big return recently, and Carolina knew they'd be keeping him.
His rental price should be similar to Kovy's.

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01-14-2013, 05:12 PM
  #170
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I'd find it awesome to see Kessel in Pittsburgh. Neal-Crosby-Kessel? Talking about a FILTHY 1st line.

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01-14-2013, 05:14 PM
  #171
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His rental price should be similar to Kovy's.
Agreed. And that return wasn't as good as the return Boston received. That isn't a knock on Kessel, it's just that teams don't give up blue chip assets for guys with so little controllability left. I saw a post yesterday saying he'd return Huberdeau, Markstrom, and more.

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01-14-2013, 05:14 PM
  #172
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I'd find it awesome to see Kessel in Pittsburgh. Neal-Crosby-Kessel? Talking about a FILTHY 1st line.
Kulemin-Malkin-Lupul looks pretty good too as the leafs top line

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01-14-2013, 05:15 PM
  #173
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So serious question, would you trade Taylor Hall and RNH? And rate them as secondary players?

Would love to hear your opinion on that one.
If I had any idea what you were talking about maybe I'd be able to respond.

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01-14-2013, 05:17 PM
  #174
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Agreed. And that return wasn't as good as the return Boston received. That isn't a knock on Kessel, it's just that teams don't give up blue chip assets for guys with so little controllability left. I saw a post yesterday saying he'd return Huberdeau, Markstrom, and more.
Doesn't really make sense for Florida to make that trade. Agreed. I could see one prospect like that - with a little on the side - with the right circumstances though.

Either way, he should be extended and a guy like Stastny put with him so we can really see what he can do.

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01-14-2013, 05:19 PM
  #175
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Either way, he should be extended and a guy like Stastny put with him so we can really see what he can do.
8 years of Kessel is very likely worth more to Toronto than anything they would acquire via trade. Unless he refuses t sign, he should be retained.

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