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Phil Kessel

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Old
01-14-2013, 05:19 PM
  #176
marty111
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Originally Posted by Billy6 View Post
If I had any idea what you were talking about maybe I'd be able to respond.
Well you said that offensive players - like Kessel - are essentially secondary players since they lack the defensive side to their game. Then you used his -10 to support your argument.

So I ask you, does the same apply to Taylor Hall and RNH? Love to hear your thoughts.

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01-14-2013, 05:21 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
8 years of Kessel is very likely worth more to Toronto than anything they would acquire via trade. Unless he refuses t sign, he should be retained.
Ok high five.

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01-14-2013, 05:24 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
I'm done with this board. Just yesterday I read someone claim that Kessel's worth less now than when he was traded. Do you know who's scored more goals than Phil Kessel over the last 3 seasons? Gaborik, Iginla, Kovalchuk, Marleau, Perry, Ovechkin, and Stamkos. A whopping seven players. And yet he's a "secondary" scoring option. That's laughable. You heard it here first folks -- Phil Kessel's a second line player. And the reason we have to trade our PPG second line winger is because of his +/-. Because the fact he was a minus player on the 5th worst team in the league is shocking.

Wow. Turn in your Leafs card on your way out.
Homer interjection, but you forgot Daniel Sedin.(in 17 less games as well)

But your point is spot on.

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Old
01-14-2013, 05:38 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Hard not to get upset with people on this site sometimes... clueless.
To me clueless is the strategy of Leafs management to build around players that were not wanted by their previous team.

To me clueless is foolishly attempting to rush a rebuild that has been the strategy of the Leafs since the 60's which has proven time and time again to be a colossal failure.

To me clueless is Leaf fans that for some reason want the team so badly to squeak into 8th place instead of struggling for a few years and obtaining quality players to build the core of a true championship contending team. It's not like the planet is going to blow up in two years. The Leafs will be around ten years from now.

I want the Leafs to win the Cup. They will not get there with Kessel leading the team. I would have so much more respect for Nonis if he honestly looked at his roster and concluded that instead of trying to pull the wool over the eyes of gullible Leaf fans and to please money hungry ownership that it would be better to take a step back and rebuild things slowly.

I have no doubt that many people will disagree with this post, but honestly what evidence do any of you have that I am wrong?

I've been saying this for the last nine years while watching this team fail.

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01-14-2013, 05:47 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Well you said that offensive players - like Kessel - are essentially secondary players since they lack the defensive side to their game. Then you used his -10 to support your argument.

So I ask you, does the same apply to Taylor Hall and RNH? Love to hear your thoughts.
RNH looked good defensively at the WJC to me. I honestly haven't watched Hall enough to form an opinion, but I think that you are missing my point.

First line players on good, championship calibre teams cannot be one dimensional like Kessel is.

Offensive players need to have somewhat of a defensive conscious to be truly successful and I have seen no evidence that Kessel will ever develop into anything more than what he is: a good scorer on a bad team.

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Old
01-14-2013, 05:49 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Kulemin-Malkin-Lupul looks pretty good too as the leafs top line
haha yes I suppose But I doubt Malkin wouldn't bolt at the first chance he got. He is so media shy, he'd never survive in Toronto

Shame for the Leafs, if they had a decent center, you'd have a sweet line with Lupul and Kessel.

You guys should try and get Tavares. #I'mASmartAss

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Old
01-14-2013, 06:17 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Billy6 View Post
RNH looked good defensively at the WJC to me. I honestly haven't watched Hall enough to form an opinion, but I think that you are missing my point.

First line players on good, championship calibre teams cannot be one dimensional like Kessel is.

Offensive players need to have somewhat of a defensive conscious to be truly successful and I have seen no evidence that Kessel will ever develop into anything more than what he is: a good scorer on a bad team.
Well then maybe you should watch more hockey.

By your analysis both Hall and RNH are one dimensional players. Go around and ask people about that and see how it goes.

And to the bold, we've heard that song and dance before.


Kessel isn't good without an elite center - Savard. He wouldn't even crack 30G. 3 30 G seasons later with Tyler Bozak and that tune has changed.

Then it was Kessel is a good goal scorer but a 60 point 2nd line winger. What you see is what you get. After a full 82PTS 82 games season that has changed too.

Now it's well Kessel is a good scorer on a bad team and thus bad teams never have any players that are GREAT - fact.

Which is hilarious and amusing. Thank you for brightening my day

I suppose the follow list of players are secondary players as well since they play on a bad team and/or minus hockey players.

John Tavares
RNH
Jorden Eberle
Matt Duchene
Ryan Getzlaf
Correy Perry
Rick Nash
Alexander Ovechkin
Niklas Backstrom
... and I could go on.

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Old
01-14-2013, 08:44 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Well then maybe you should watch more hockey.

By your analysis both Hall and RNH are one dimensional players. Go around and ask people about that and see how it goes.

And to the bold, we've heard that song and dance before.


Kessel isn't good without an elite center - Savard. He wouldn't even crack 30G. 3 30 G seasons later with Tyler Bozak and that tune has changed.

Then it was Kessel is a good goal scorer but a 60 point 2nd line winger. What you see is what you get. After a full 82PTS 82 games season that has changed too.

Now it's well Kessel is a good scorer on a bad team and thus bad teams never have any players that are GREAT - fact.

Which is hilarious and amusing. Thank you for brightening my day

I suppose the follow list of players are secondary players as well since they play on a bad team and/or minus hockey players.

John Tavares
RNH
Jorden Eberle
Matt Duchene
Ryan Getzlaf
Correy Perry
Rick Nash
Alexander Ovechkin
Niklas Backstrom
... and I could go on.
Again, you are not understanding my point. I was talking specifically about Kessel. It is you who is putting words in my mouth as if I was criticizing that list of players you just named. I was not. Maybe you should go back and read my posts again. More slowly this time.

If you want to be a cheerleader for Kessel because he's the best player the Leafs have right now then that's fine, that's your choice. I'm just saying that that they should be building their team around someone else.

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01-14-2013, 09:19 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy6 View Post
Again, you are not understanding my point. I was talking specifically about Kessel. It is you who is putting words in my mouth as if I was criticizing that list of players you just named. I was not. Maybe you should go back and read my posts again. More slowly this time.

If you want to be a cheerleader for Kessel because he's the best player the Leafs have right now then that's fine, that's your choice. I'm just saying that that they should be building their team around someone else.
No one can possibly understand what you perceived to be your "point"; your argument does not make any sense at all. You were put in your place; stop while you're not further behind.

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Old
01-14-2013, 09:36 PM
  #185
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Okposo
Grabner (Or Griffin Reinhart depending if leafs need more offense or defense)
2013 Islanders 1st Round Pick

For

Kessel

Therefore creating a future Islanders lineup consisting:

Molson-Tavares-Kessel
Bailey-Strome-Nino
Boyes-Nielson-Ullstrom

I am officially wet

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Old
01-14-2013, 09:43 PM
  #186
Billy6
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Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
No one can possibly understand what you perceived to be your "point"; your argument does not make any sense at all. You were put in your place; stop while you're not further behind.
I don't really know how it's that hard to understand, or how you can consider that I was put in my place. My posts on Kessel quickly somehow turned into an insult on Taylor Hall and RNH?

If you don't agree with my views feel free to debate me about them. That's what makes these forums fun, but if you just want to slam my opinion without stating your own or offering any sort of rebuttal then don't waste your time. Thanks.

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01-14-2013, 09:49 PM
  #187
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemon999 View Post
Okposo
Grabner (Or Griffin Reinhart depending if leafs need more offense or defense)
2013 Islanders 1st Round Pick

For

Kessel

Therefore creating a future Islanders lineup consisting:

Molson-Tavares-Kessel
Bailey-Strome-Nino
Boyes-Nielson-Ullstrom

I am officially wet
Change Okposo to Nino. Then, maybe

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Old
01-14-2013, 09:53 PM
  #188
joemon999
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Change Okposo to Nino. Then, maybe
Hmm ok hows this then. I change Okposo to Nino, but then Islanders keep the 2013 First round pick and change it to a 2014 second round pick (******* you viznovsky). Therefore:

Nino
Grabner
2014 second round pick

For

Kessel

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Old
01-14-2013, 09:53 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Change Okposo to Nino. Then, maybe
Steep but close value. I think the Okposo suggestion was closer to the value or if not, somewhere in between that.

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01-14-2013, 09:56 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by analog4ndy View Post
Steep but close value. I think the Okposo suggestion was closer to the value or if not, somewhere in between that.
What do you think about the proposal above you?

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01-14-2013, 09:57 PM
  #191
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Originally Posted by joemon999 View Post
Hmm ok hows this then. I change Okposo to Nino, but then Islanders keep the 2013 First round pick and change it to a 2014 second round pick (******* you viznovsky). Therefore:

Nino
Grabner
2014 second round pick

For

Kessel
Counter with Strome + Grabner. That 1st is intriguing, even at 15-20

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01-14-2013, 09:59 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by analog4ndy View Post
Steep but close value. I think the Okposo suggestion was closer to the value or if not, somewhere in between that.
Okposo doesn't interest me whatsoever. I think he's a dime-a-dozen player.

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01-14-2013, 09:59 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Counter with Strome + Grabner. That 1st is intriguing, even at 15-20
Idk if I can include the Islanders first round pick if Nino or Strome are involved. How about this then?

Brock Nelson
Grabner
2013 Islanders 1st Round Pick

For

Kessel

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:03 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by joemon999 View Post
Idk if I can include the Islanders first round pick if Nino or Strome are involved. How about this then?

Brock Nelson
Grabner
2013 Islanders 1st Round Pick

For

Kessel
I don't know anything about Brock Nelson but I think Strome or Grabner + 1st is a good start.

How about Morgan Rielly, Nazem Kadri, 2013 Maple Leafs 1st round pick for John Tavares

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01-14-2013, 10:23 PM
  #195
marty111
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Originally Posted by Billy6 View Post
I don't really know how it's that hard to understand, or how you can consider that I was put in my place. My posts on Kessel quickly somehow turned into an insult on Taylor Hall and RNH?

If you don't agree with my views feel free to debate me about them. That's what makes these forums fun, but if you just want to slam my opinion without stating your own or offering any sort of rebuttal then don't waste your time. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy6 View Post
Again, you are not understanding my point. I was talking specifically about Kessel. It is you who is putting words in my mouth as if I was criticizing that list of players you just named. I was not. Maybe you should go back and read my posts again. More slowly this time.

If you want to be a cheerleader for Kessel because he's the best player the Leafs have right now then that's fine, that's your choice. I'm just saying that that they should be building their team around someone else.
I'm just encouraging you to make a more compelling argument.

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01-14-2013, 11:33 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I'm just encouraging you to make a more compelling argument.
A more compelling argument that Kessel isn't a player that will lead the Leafs to the Cup? I don't need to say anything more. Just look at his history and watch the Leafs play this year.

Eventually you all will realize that Kessel is not suited to be the player that the Leafs build their team around.

I'll say it one more time: when a one dimensional player that hasn't thrown a single hit, been in one fight, is a severe defensive liability, got dumped by the team that drafted him, and is named Phil Kessel, is your best player you are not going to win the Stanley Cup.

I'm done with this thread, you guys can have the final word.

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01-14-2013, 11:34 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Billy6 View Post
A more compelling argument that Kessel isn't a player that will lead the Leafs to the Cup? I don't need to say anything more. Just look at his history and watch the Leafs play this year.

Eventually you all will realize that Kessel is not suited to be the player that the Leafs build their team around.

I'll say it one more time: when a one dimensional player that hasn't thrown a single hit, been in one fight, is a severe defensive liability, got dumped by the team that drafted him, and is named Phil Kessel, is your best player you are not going to win the Stanley Cup.

I'm done with this thread, you guys can have the final word.
I might agree with you if every team was only allowed a single player to build around.

This soft, one dimensional, dumped player says hello.

I wonder how much better he could have been if he fought and threw hits.

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01-14-2013, 11:48 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Change Okposo to Nino. Then, maybe
Please stop!

Nothing really interests me on the Islanders except for Tavares, Okposo and Moulson.

They don't have the pieces available to make a Kessel deal.

Let's just hope Nonis stays on top of this and gets Kessel as soon as possible so we can stop with this stuff.

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01-14-2013, 11:54 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Billy6 View Post
A more compelling argument that Kessel isn't a player that will lead the Leafs to the Cup? I don't need to say anything more. Just look at his history and watch the Leafs play this year.

Eventually you all will realize that Kessel is not suited to be the player that the Leafs build their team around.

I'll say it one more time: when a one dimensional player that hasn't thrown a single hit, been in one fight, is a severe defensive liability, got dumped by the team that drafted him, and is named Phil Kessel, is your best player you are not going to win the Stanley Cup.

I'm done with this thread, you guys can have the final word.
Billy, you're saying say history as if Kessel is on the wrong side of 30.

All I know is that I've seen Kessel dominate in the playoffs while he was with the Bruins.

I'm sure you already know this but the team is not built around one player. A team led by Crosby and a bunch of average to below average players will also not win the Stanley Cup.

A GM's job is to build a competitive team overall and fill it up with talent. Kessel is a great building block for ANY team. The guy is one of the best snipers in the league. He deserves credit.

Saying a team with Kessel will not win a cup is a severely miscalculated remark.

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Old
01-15-2013, 12:08 AM
  #200
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Pens trade Morrow, Tangradi and a first for Kessel? Fair?
No. Pittsburgh just doesn't have the available assets to obtain Kessel.

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