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01-14-2013, 07:17 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Wants to be a core player? Price, Max, Gorges...all got long deals, albeit their 3rd contracts...
He'd still be a core player on a 1 or 2 year deal, I don't think it has anything to do with the kind of contract you have.

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01-14-2013, 08:16 PM
  #52
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People keep mentioning the Price and Pacioretty signings, but forget that Price signed a 2-yr bridge deal the summer Halak beat him out for the no 1 job, carried us into the ECF and then got traded. Even then he got $5.5 over 2.

Pacioretty was coming off his breakout half season that was cut short and there was speculation on how good he'd be coming back. So they signed him to a 2 yr deal.

PK has been our no 1 or 2 dman for the past 2 years. I would also rather see him get a bridge deal but I don't think the Price/Pacioretty comparisons are totally fair.

I wouldn't hesitate to sign him long term...the only question to me is this - will he be a no 2-3 d man who eats minutes and puts up 35-45 pts or will he be a no 1-2 d man who will eat minutes and 50-60+?

For now, I'd say give him 5 x 5. Might be a whole lot better than the deal he'd get if he signs for 2 yrs and puts up 50-60 (pro-rated) pts a year...that would be a 8 x 7 type of deal...
Bingo. Neither of them were "the man" then and signed based off of potential. Subban IS "the man" and has been for 2 seasons now. IMO he's not in the same category as Max and Price when they signed their second deals. He is a #1 dman and should be paid as such. In the 5M range is fair IMO

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01-14-2013, 08:21 PM
  #53
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Bergevin doesn't want to hand out long term deals because that would give his players less incentive to give their 100% every game. It's that simple.

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01-14-2013, 08:21 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by hersky77 View Post
I cant beleive some of you want PK gone. Let me pose this question when was the last time we had a player as dynamic as him, when was the last time we had pmd that could play both ends of the ice like him?

Some of you are peeved that he wont sign because mdz signed a 2 year 5.5 million dollar deal. PK deserves much more than that, mdz has had one good year after spending is sophomore year in the AHL when PK was playing 25 a night. PK is already a top 20 defesman in the league at the age of 23, and some of you want to trade him because of this and I find it unbelievable.

Im not even going to get into this whole debate wether he is liked or disrespectful because I personally do not care if he is or isnt. He our best defensman and if he is not signed it will set this team back further than it already is.
If he's looking to rob the bank, i'd buy his bus ticket out of town!!
Right now, anything over 4 mil per season is overpaid. It's got to stop
somewhere, if not, we'll all be watching a canadian hockey league and not the NHL.
Its not hockey anymore, it's how rich can I get without putting in to many hard nights
of work. Gomez comes to mind, sitting home and getting million's. Someone made a comment here on the board about gomez sitting home and Molson's paying him all
that money, its not Molson's , its the fans that go to the game's , drink their crappy
beer that's paying "go-home-z" to be home doing nothing.

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01-14-2013, 08:26 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Bergevin doesn't want to hand out long term deals because that would give his players less incentive to give their 100% every game. It's that simple.
He signed Pacioretty and Carey Price to long term deals.

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01-14-2013, 08:45 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
If he's looking to rob the bank, i'd buy his bus ticket out of town!!
Right now, anything over 4 mil per season is overpaid. It's got to stop
somewhere, if not, we'll all be watching a canadian hockey league and not the NHL.
Its not hockey anymore, it's how rich can I get without putting in to many hard nights
of work. Gomez comes to mind, sitting home and getting million's. Someone made a comment here on the board about gomez sitting home and Molson's paying him all
that money, its not Molson's , its the fans that go to the game's , drink their crappy
beer that's paying "go-home-z" to be home doing nothing.
Prust is making $2M and you think 4M is too much for PK?

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01-14-2013, 08:57 PM
  #57
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wrong thread


Last edited by groovejuice: 01-14-2013 at 09:12 PM.
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Old
01-14-2013, 09:23 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
Why the heck would P.K Subban worry about term security at his age?

Wouldn't make sense.
Many players want the security of a long term contract....an injury could occur at anytime and hamper/end their career

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01-14-2013, 09:45 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
PHX needs a fan base and Subban could help alot more then OEL and they're pretty equal on age and potentiel,but thats the type of trade u rarely see from GM's since it could turn out pretty bad if one busts.Either way its not about the money i was just wondering if Bergevin would of tried the market if it wasnt for hes popularity in montreal.One thing is for sure,speculation or not hes no Doughty and doesnt deserve hes contract yet.
You are past that point. Neither one of those kids will bust. But this trade makes no sense because nobody really improves. Habs get the worse player although they get a ''+'', however they're right back in the same position next year when OEL's ELC finishes.
PHX gets the better player, however he's unsigned, allegedly asking for around 6M, and they payed an elite prospect + in order to get him. It just doesn't make any sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
If it's the case... See you next September, PK ! Habs will have better chances to miss the playoffs and getva better pick in the 1st round.
Letting your best young player at home for the whole season would be a massive colossal mistake. I would lose faith instantly in this management group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
He'd still be a core player on a 1 or 2 year deal, I don't think it has anything to do with the kind of contract you have.
Maybe he just doesn't want to be back negotiating in a year or two and feels he played well enough to earn himself a longer contract for good cash. Not sure how anybody can really argue against that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
Right now, anything over 4 mil per season is overpaid. It's got to stop
somewhere
You're right, it has to stop somewhere. You stop offering older UFA higher cash like Cole got when he's likely not going to really earn his cash in his last year or two. You don't overpay for a grinder like Prust.
Your best player and rising star however is one guy you can overpay. And it's not even overpaid for sure, he could end up earning every penny of it to the point where he'll get even more on his next contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
Gomez comes to mind, sitting home and getting million's.
Gomez never earned that contract and there was no chance of him actually earning it either. It was retarded.
PK on the other end, every one seem to agree there's a very good chance PK will be worth 6M/y in a couple of years at the latest.
It's not a comparable situation.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:42 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by The n00b King View Post
See this is something that makes no sense.

Everyone agrees on the abilities of Subban. Everyone agrees that he's a great player who has a bright future.

So if I'm PK, and I know this is the case. I know that I'm on the upswing. Why is it such a big deal to sign a 2 year deal? I mean does he expect to take a major nose diving within those 2 years? Is he going to go the Redden route?

Something's amiss. We definitely don't have the whole picture.
Subban might make 10 or 20 million more by waiting 2 years to sign a big contract.

He might also make 10 or 20 million less. Signing a big contract now means he has guaranteed money coming in if he suffers multiple concussions or other severe injuries. He's giving up the future mega payday for a big but less big payday now that is more secure.

I would make the same choice.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:46 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Letting your best young player at home for the whole season would be a massive colossal mistake. I would lose faith instantly in this management group.
It would be a sneaky way to tank. Without Subban, the Habs would draft top-3 for sure, and Bergevin could tell the media it's not his fault, and RDS would believe him and blame Subban.

Obviously, I'd rather have a GM with courage.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:58 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I really don't want to trade Subban but OEL is one of the few replacements I'd move for depending on what the "+" is. I don't see it happening though because Subban and Ekman-Larsson are too comparable to give something else up for. Probably neither side would risk that.
I wouldn't worry about the +.

If, and I mean if, Montreal and PK can't agree on a deal I'd rather trade him and move on with OEL. I think it's a deal that makes sense for both teams.

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01-14-2013, 11:01 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I wouldn't worry about the +.

If, and I mean if, Montreal and PK can't agree on a deal I'd rather trade him and move on with OEL. I think it's a deal that makes sense for both teams.
If we try and keep up the insulting second contracts we'll have the same problems with OEL and later with Galchenyuk.

You can treat your players like garbage, but you just can't do it without repercussions.

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01-14-2013, 11:08 PM
  #64
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Also, when asked about the P.K situation compared to Price's and Pacioretty's contracts, Bergevin answered that every case wasn't the same and that he can't put everything in the same category, so that leads me to believe that Bergevin has been somewhat flexible in the negociation talks and his offers.

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01-14-2013, 11:20 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If we try and keep up the insulting second contracts we'll have the same problems with OEL and later with Galchenyuk.

You can treat your players like garbage, but you just can't do it without repercussions.
Since when has Montreal treated it's players like garbage. Sure, Gauthier could of done things better but that wasn't how ownership in Montreal wanted things handled.

My feeling is if Subban wants to be paid like a UFA we should treat him like a UFA. There are teams in the NHL who will pay him what he wants, in both term and money and if that's what's important to Subban, I wish him well, as long as we get a decent return for him.

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01-14-2013, 11:31 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Since when has Montreal treated it's players like garbage. Sure, Gauthier could of done things better but that wasn't how ownership in Montreal wanted things handled.

My feeling is if Subban wants to be paid like a UFA we should treat him like a UFA. There are teams in the NHL who will pay him what he wants, in both term and money and if that's what's important to Subban, I wish him well, as long as we get a decent return for him.
Where have you been the last few months? $$$$ is important to all players. If you want to win a cup, you are going to have to pay up for young talent. We don't land big fish free agents so you have to pay $$$ to keep your guys.

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01-14-2013, 11:36 PM
  #67
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Marc Bergevin isn't a fossil (Gainey, Gauthier). He's also not anorexic (Gauthier) and he has a decent build (looks like he lifts) with some good facial aesthetics (no homo) and he's young.

So why is this taking so long? Time for Bergevin to step his game up cuzz.

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01-14-2013, 11:52 PM
  #68
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Urban youth is gonna youth. noimsayin'?
I gotchu brah.

inb4 YIAMSOMEBODY

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01-15-2013, 12:01 AM
  #69
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How long can we sign Subban so that we can resign him as a RFA next contract? I mean if we sign him lets say 4 years, is he a UFA at the end of his contract?

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01-15-2013, 12:14 AM
  #70
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How long can we sign Subban so that we can resign him as a RFA next contract? I mean if we sign him lets say 4 years, is he a UFA at the end of his contract?
Well his ELC was 3 years, so 4 more years and he is a UFA. Signing him for 4 years makes no sense... for the Habs a 2 year deal makes sense because we can then re-sign him to a contract while he is still a RFA, while a longer contract now (6 years for example) also makes sense because it takes PK a few years into his free agency.

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01-15-2013, 12:22 AM
  #71
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You are past that point. Neither one of those kids will bust. [B]But this trade makes no sense because nobody really improves. Habs get the worse player although they get a ''+'', however they're right back in the same position next year when OEL's ELC finishes.
PHX gets the better player, however he's unsigned, allegedly asking for around 6M, and they payed an elite prospect + in order to get him. It just doesn't make any sense.
it makes sense for PHX marketing wise and habs get a similiar young dman with the same potentiel if they cant get subban signed.Like most of the people here i wouldnt trade subban but if we're talking about OEL or Pietrangelo then i would listen closely to the offer,and maybe its just me but personally i think Ekman Larsson turns out the better dman between both.

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01-15-2013, 04:51 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
He signed Pacioretty and Carey Price to long term deals.
Only after their 2 year bridge contracts.

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Old
01-15-2013, 05:15 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I wouldn't worry about the +.

If, and I mean if, Montreal and PK can't agree on a deal I'd rather trade him and move on with OEL. I think it's a deal that makes sense for both teams.
What makes you think Phoenix would trade OEL for an unsigned Subban?
Would he rather sign with Phoenix?

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Old
01-15-2013, 07:25 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Since when has Montreal treated it's players like garbage. Sure, Gauthier could of done things better but that wasn't how ownership in Montreal wanted things handled.

My feeling is if Subban wants to be paid like a UFA we should treat him like a UFA. There are teams in the NHL who will pay him what he wants, in both term and money and if that's what's important to Subban, I wish him well, as long as we get a decent return for him.
Bergevin is demanding that Subban be severely underpaid, that counts as treating a player like garbage.


Cam Fowler, Anaheim, 5 years @ 4 million per
Tyler Myers, Buffalo, 7 years @ 5.5 million per
Drew Doughty, Los Angeles, 8 years @ 7 million per
Marc Staal, New York Rangers, 5 years @ 3.975 million per
Erik Karlsson, Ottawa, 7 years @ 6.5 million per
Luke Schenn, Philadelphia, 5 years @ 4.5 million per
Victor Hedman, Tampa Bay, 5 years @ 4 million per
Alexander Edler, Vancouver, 4 years @ 3.25 million per
John Carlson, Washington, 6 years @ 3.9 million per
Mike Green, Washington, 4 years @ 5.25 million per

These are PK's comparables for excellent defensemen signing second contracts with their team. Many of those contracts were signed when the cap was substantially lower than it is now. PK knows what these comparable players are getting, and he wants a comparable salary. Some of those players are better than Subban, some are inferior to Subban, but with all of them together you can see the big picture and interpolate. He wants to receive equal treatment relative to equal players.

Bergevin?

"PK, you have proven nothing, 2 years @ 3 million per, take it or leave it !!!!"

Absolutely disgusting.

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Old
01-15-2013, 07:38 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Bergevin is demanding that Subban be severely underpaid, that counts as treating a player like garbage.

...

"PK, you have proven nothing, 2 years @ 3 million per, take it or leave it !!!!"

Absolutely disgusting.
Wait a second, did Bergevin/the Habs confirm that's what they are offering? If not, then PK's camp said that? Who else has a clue? I don't see the Habs having made insutlingly low offers to the players they've most recently signed... why would we believe any report that they decided to start now? After all the nice things MB said about PK last week? I think it's premature to be "disgusted" or whatever with the Habs. We simply don't know enough for that. It's like being disgusted that PK wants a $7M per year Drew Doughty contract. Both of these are ludicrous-seeming reports, aren't they... ?

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