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NY Post 01/14/2013: Gaborik switches sides [to LW]

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01-14-2013, 07:01 PM
  #126
Machinehead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Well no one else in our lineup can fill up that role.

I would much rather give offensive starts to Hagelin and Kreider so they don't turn out like grinders. And I believe adding Callahan to our bottom 6 makes it one of the strengths of the team.
If Kreider can step right in and duplicate Callahan's production as a rookie then it makes alot of sense, but that scares me a little.

Nash will handle it for sure, but I don't wanna replace Cally's production with Nash, I wanna add Nash to what we had last year.

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01-14-2013, 07:16 PM
  #127
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this allows our two biggest offensive threats to both play with any line combination on our team-- even if at a slightly lesser level. accomplishes this without having to make callahan, kreider, and hagelin all learn opposite wings. this allows gaborik and nash to both doubleshift and play against any defenseman they want. yes, gaborik may play a little worse, but he may be playing against much worse defensemen.

i don't like it as a permanent spot for him, but being able to play both sides confidently is a huge boost to our team's depth. being that he already shoots lefty, this is a great concept and shows a little more of tort's creative side that we don't always see.

will it work out? we'll soon know. i like it. as somebody else stated-- this also means that he's not playing against the same defensemen who have learned him over the years-- he's got a fresh slate against guys who don't all know his tricks.

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01-14-2013, 07:36 PM
  #128
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lines makes sense or lines don't make sense...one thing is for sure In Torts I Trust

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01-14-2013, 07:47 PM
  #129
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This won't stick.

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01-14-2013, 08:17 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UlfNilsson View Post
"said Gaborik, whose 41 goals last season were third most in the NHL behind Steven Stamkosí 60 and Evgeni Malkinís 50."

If Gabby wasn't on the Rangers you'd be suggesting that we trade for him, no? Yes.


So well said.

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01-14-2013, 08:23 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Why wouldn't that be the case with Hagelin, too?
Overall i don't think that Hagelin needs to rely on his centers in the way I believe that Kreider will.

Also, I think that Hagelin is alot more versatile than Kreider is and as such you are going to lose less by having him on the third line than having Kreider there.

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01-14-2013, 08:33 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Overall i don't think that Hagelin needs to rely on his centers in the way I believe that Kreider will.

Also, I think that Hagelin is alot more versatile than Kreider is and as such you are going to lose less by having him on the third line than having Kreider there.
Im pretty sure you havent seen Kreider play enough to make an educated judgment on that.

But it always humors me when people try.

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01-14-2013, 09:27 PM
  #133
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I don't understand what the problem is with the top 6. Last year, in order of points scored, this is the breakdown for the top 6:

1. Gaborik
2. Richards
3. Callahan
4. Stepan
5. Hagelin
6. Anisimov

Hagelin also played 64 games, less then everyone on that list and still was 5th. Now, if we add Nash to the mix based on his points over in CBJ, it would go like this:

1. Gaborik
2. Richards
3. Nash
4. Callahan
5. Stepan
6. Hagelin

So there's your top 6. Not hard. The lines are going to jump around because Torts likes playing hot potato, that's the type of coach he is. Shouldn't the fans know that by now?

Kreider is going to play top-6 minutes for a good portion of time too and will probably be interchangeable with Hagelin or be slotted right in there if there's an injury. It's just a no-brainer.

I think Kreider-Boyle-Pyatt could make some noise as a line, but won't be effective in scoring much. The addition of Nash sort of leaves Kreider out of the mix for now. If all goes as planned, we will hopefully win a cup, and will not re-sign Gaborik, and Kreider will step up to be the player we think he will be to replace him in the coming years.

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01-14-2013, 11:55 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
3 pages of this thread and only one person mentioned why this actually happened. Funny stuff guys.

Step 1.) Tortorella wants Nash to play with Richards
Step 2.) Tortoerlla wants to separate Nash and Gaborik
Step 3.) Stepan is a righty playmaker with a tendency to dish to his left
Step 4.) Move the goal-scorer on Stepan's line to his left

Really pretty simple. If that's the logic, moving Nash to Richards' left when Richards is a lefty defeats the purpose.
This is true but I think there's more to it. Torts mentioned how lucky everyone is healthy, and to keep them healthy. Gabby is coming off shoulder surgery, a short camp, and no preseason. The first 2 games he would have faced Chara and Orpik at RW. BBKers made a good point on who Gabby will be defended by. He won't have to face those 2 at LW. Good time to experiment. You don't want him to test that shoulder in his first game back with Chara.

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01-15-2013, 12:32 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
I don't understand what the problem is with the top 6. Last year, in order of points scored, this is the breakdown for the top 6:

1. Gaborik
2. Richards
3. Callahan
4. Stepan
5. Hagelin
6. Anisimov

Hagelin also played 64 games, less then everyone on that list and still was 5th. Now, if we add Nash to the mix based on his points over in CBJ, it would go like this:

1. Gaborik
2. Richards
3. Nash
4. Callahan
5. Stepan
6. Hagelin

So there's your top 6. Not hard. The lines are going to jump around because Torts likes playing hot potato, that's the type of coach he is. Shouldn't the fans know that by now?

Kreider is going to play top-6 minutes for a good portion of time too and will probably be interchangeable with Hagelin or be slotted right in there if there's an injury. It's just a no-brainer.

I think Kreider-Boyle-Pyatt could make some noise as a line, but won't be effective in scoring much. The addition of Nash sort of leaves Kreider out of the mix for now.[B] If all goes as planned, we will hopefully win a cup, and will not re-sign Gaborik, and Kreider will step up to be the player we think he will be to replace him in the coming years.[B]
I'm sorry but this is pissing me off. Kreider will never be a lethal offensive threat like Gabby. Gabby is still one of the top offensive threats in this league. Has scored 40 goals or better 3 out of the last 5 seasons. In the 2 seasons he didn't, he was injured. He has scored 40+ goals in 2 of the 3 years he has been with the NYR. And it seems half the people posting in this thread want to get rid of him. Are you guys losing your minds? Hell, we would be lucky if Nash even scores 40 for us. And your assuming Kreider will be this good? Please.....


Last edited by ohbaby: 01-15-2013 at 12:37 AM.
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01-15-2013, 01:23 AM
  #136
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Some of you guys are acting like because Torts asked Gaborik to practice and learn to play on the left side that he is doomed to play their even if there is a noticeable drop-off in his production, it's insane.

If Gaborik plays definitively worse on the left then I bet that he will be switched back to the right. Nash is able to play both wings, it only helps if Gaborik demonstrates that he is able to do that as well. It enables more ways to separate your star players from the better defenders on the other team.

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01-15-2013, 01:35 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Alluckks View Post
Some of you guys are acting like because Torts asked Gaborik to practice and learn to play on the left side that he is doomed to play their even if there is a noticeable drop-off in his production, it's insane.

If Gaborik plays definitively worse on the left then I bet that he will be switched back to the right. Nash is able to play both wings, it only helps if Gaborik demonstrates that he is able to do that as well. It enables more ways to separate your star players from the better defenders on the other team.
Isn't this what most have been saying anyway? My issue (if you can call it that) with this experiment is that it's a short season and everybody and their mothers have been talking about the importance of getting off to a fast start. So I don't know if starting the season with your best goal scorer playing out of his natural position is going to help in that regard. Not really even a concern, just a thought

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01-15-2013, 04:50 AM
  #138
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A couple of things that I definitely think are overlooked in this discussion:

1. Nash must find chemistry with whatever center he plays with.

This is the most important goal to reach. And its very important that we reach it fast to.

What is not as important is that the full line of players Nash is on finds chemistry with each other. One forward on the ice, at a time, always has to pull back a little. If you have two guys that works together, that is enough. Nyls and JJ can score despite having Isbister on their line. If you put like Zherdev with Nyls and JJ, one of Nyls and JJ will attack alot less than if Isbister has that role. Ok.

Earlier when I thought Nash would play LW I suggested that Nash-Richards should have Pyatt on their line for this very reason. Pyatt would become a slave on that line. He would understand his role, fall back when needed and so forth. With Richards-Nash, Hagelin will do the same. Its also important to remember that Richards is more or less worthless at transporting the puck up ice. Hagelin is good at getting the puck up ice.

In the end, I think arguments could be made for all LW's on the team to play on that line. Or atleast try them. Gabby-Richards-Nash could find instant chemistry. Kreider might find his spot on that line. Just like Isbister could play with Nyls and JJ, Asham could play with Richards-Nash (from the get go atleast). In Asham you get a real slave there. Taylor Pyatt could play there. To the extent Rupp is a LW, he might still not be the best idea though... But Hagelin definitely makes alot of sense there. He got prior experience with playing with BR. He is great on the backcheck and on the forecheck. And so forth.

2. We as a team has played our best hockey by far, when we have had a deep lineup. By far. Under Renney. And under Torts. Even by just loosing our 4th line for stretches, it has had immidiate negative effect.

Also, whatever ranking is attached to each line, we also as a team has for long stretches found it valuble to for example play a 3rd line more than a 2nd line or a 4th line more than a 3rd line.

I don't buy the arguments that the top 6 players necessarily should play on the top 2 lines at all. I could definitely see a lineup like this:
Pyatt-Richards-Nash
Hagelin-Stepan-Gabby
Kreider-Halpern-Callahan
Asham-Boyle-Rupp

being more successful than

Hagelin-Richards-Nash
Gabby-Stepan-Callahan
Kreider-Boyle-Pyatt
Asham-Boyle-Rupp

I mean, right after signing Drury and Gomez (the biggest UFA bonanza in ages), we started with something like:
1. Hossa-Gomez-Jagr
2. Prucha-Drury-Shanahan
3. Hollweg-Betts-Callahan
4. Avery-Dubinsky-Orr

And then went with:

1. Avery-Dubinsky-Jagr
2. Prucha-Gomez-Shanahan
3. Straka-Drury-Callahan
4. Hollweg-Betts-Orr

I remember writing a ton of posts on the troubles we had back then. We had lost two centers in Matt Cullen and Nylander. Drury was alot slower than both and was worthless in taking the puck up ice. Ryan Callahan and Dubinsky was definitely not the player they are today, and Ortmayer had also bolted. We started the season with a decent 1st line by all accounts but a slow second with Drury and Shanny, Betts centering a very stiff but still decent 3rd line and no 4th line at all. And while Gomez and JJ put up some pts together, with did not get optimal production from both as the two of them always wanted the puck in the same sitautions. We got some pts in the standings but not many, and we were just not good at all the first half of that season. By playing JJ with two 4th lineers/border line 3rd lineers (at the time, we really did move up a border line 3rd lineer and a 4th linner to the first line), by bumping back Drury and by putting Betts on the 4th, we improved and became -- by far -- the best team in the league (in terms of gettnig pts atleast) the second half of the season, heck even for 5/8s of the season if I remember correctly.

And, I am sure many have forgot, but it was a really big deal to put Drury on the 3rd line. We signed a 7m center and put him on the third, Brooks and co wrote alot about that. But we improved tremendously from it. My point is just that its a helluva lot more important to have a team that works than two top 2 lines that has optimal production.


Last edited by Ola: 01-15-2013 at 05:05 AM.
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Old
01-15-2013, 04:59 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im pretty sure you havent seen Kreider play enough to make an educated judgment on that.

But it always humors me when people try.
I have, and I know that Hagelin is better defensively, more creative with the puck just not as good a shooter.

Hagelin also has a much higher hockey IQ

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01-15-2013, 06:37 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by ohbaby View Post
I'm sorry but this is pissing me off. Kreider will never be a lethal offensive threat like Gabby. Gabby is still one of the top offensive threats in this league. Has scored 40 goals or better 3 out of the last 5 seasons. In the 2 seasons he didn't, he was injured. He has scored 40+ goals in 2 of the 3 years he has been with the NYR. And it seems half the people posting in this thread want to get rid of him. Are you guys losing your minds? Hell, we would be lucky if Nash even scores 40 for us. And your assuming Kreider will be this good? Please.....
These sentences are equally as frustrating. I get your point and agree with you but the same way one can't say Krieder will become an offensive threat like Gaborik, one can't say he won't either. The kid is just too young.

With Kreiders speed and skill it is most certainly possible. Not likely, but it IS possible.

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01-15-2013, 07:03 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
..
A great post. Most of the time chemistry develops between 2 guys (like Jagr & Nylander. Even Brad Isbister got 1st line minutes on their side) so the third guy can often be interchangeable. I'd imagine Nash sticks with Richards for a period of time, but the left wing chances almost on the fly, even from game to game.

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