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(DAL)-Ryder to (PIT)-??

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Old
01-13-2013, 04:20 PM
  #1
wgknestrick
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(DAL)-Ryder to (PIT)-??

Ryder currently is signed for this season at 3.5mil and is a top 6 wing. He is a UFA at the end of this season. Solid scoring at 2.5pts / 60min at even strength. Him being at a UFA in 6 months has to be considered in this deal.

What does DAL want in return for this player?

(Pens have tons of D prospects, some of which are NHL ready)


I propose Tyler Kennedy + (1 of Morrow, Depres, or ??) + 2nd round pick

TK currently scores at top 6 rate (roughly 2.0pts / 60min on average) and is probably a top 6 forward on DAL #2 line. He makes 1.5mil less (which is huge to DAL) and fills in most of Ryder's scoring hole. TK is still a RFA at the end of this season. He is a very underrated player by most here, and usually played against top competition on Staal's line. I don't want to trade him, but probably have to include him to return some of Ryder's scoring.

Big D also gets their pick of a solid D prospect not named Pouliott. Most of the remaining prospects are of decent value and pedigree. Certainly not elite prospects, but most likely a couple of NHLer's in there.

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01-13-2013, 04:30 PM
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LatvianTwist
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Would rather go with the other deal in the Morrow thread:

Bleuger
Strait/Bortuzzo
2013 3rd

for

Morrow
Fistric

If we're in the hunt by the trade deadline, neither will move though (unless Morrow proves he's a top 6 forward again and we can get help on defense for one of them).

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01-13-2013, 04:40 PM
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SuperSaiyanSTARS
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I wouldn't mind giving up Ryder for one of PITs D prospects.

I'd do
Tyler Kennedy + Morrow + '13 4th

FOR

Micheal Ryder + Robidas

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:15 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSaiyanSTARS View Post
I wouldn't mind giving up Ryder for one of PITs D prospects.

I'd do
Tyler Kennedy + Morrow + '13 4th

FOR

Micheal Ryder + Robidas
I doubt we would include a prospect like Morrow in a trade for a guy like Ryder.

TK + Strait/Bortuzzo/Sneep/etc + 3rd

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:24 PM
  #5
LatvianTwist
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
I doubt we would include a prospect like Morrow in a trade for a guy like Ryder.

TK + Strait/Bortuzzo/Sneep/etc + 3rd
No thanks, would much rather go with the Morrow (our Morrow) deal. Don't want or need TK.

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01-13-2013, 07:57 PM
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Devils give:
Henrik Tallinder + Mattias Tedenby, 2nd rounder

For

Michael Ryder + 3rd rounder

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Old
01-13-2013, 08:16 PM
  #7
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What about Jeff Schultz, Kundratek, 2nd, 4th for Morrow, Fistric

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01-13-2013, 08:32 PM
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What about McIlrath/Skjei + a pick for Ryder?

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01-13-2013, 08:54 PM
  #9
LatvianTwist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
What about Jeff Schultz, Kundratek, 2nd, 4th for Morrow, Fistric
This is actually really enticing.

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01-13-2013, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
This is actually really enticing.
Negative, batman.

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Old
01-13-2013, 09:11 PM
  #11
LatvianTwist
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If we could snag Orlov, that'd be nice.

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Old
01-13-2013, 09:21 PM
  #12
Halpysback
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
If we could snag Orlov, that'd be nice.
Makes no sense to trade him this season without overpayment. If we do trade him I'd rather wait til next year once he establishes himself as a legit two way top 4 D in the vein of a more physical, shorter Coburn. He's gonna be good enough to be a centerpiece in a package for a top end player but he's not right now, so makes no sense to trade him.

You have no idea how much crap I'm prepared to throw at the wall to get Morrow as long as its more or less crap. Kundratek, Sjogren, Wuthrich, 3rd, 3rd? There's gotta be a breaking point dammit

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01-13-2013, 09:59 PM
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We'd be adding to B. Morrow of course.

Can we add first initials? I'm getting really confused.

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Old
01-14-2013, 11:57 AM
  #14
wgknestrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSaiyanSTARS View Post
I wouldn't mind giving up Ryder for one of PITs D prospects.

I'd do
Tyler Kennedy + Morrow + '13 4th

FOR

Micheal Ryder + Robidas
Is Robidas a salary dump on DAL part (ie negative value)? If not, I don't see this being equal from DAL sake (I'm a PIT fan too). I take this in a heartbeat. Robidas not really what Pens are looking for IMO.

Robidas has NTC, but not sure of details. Morrow is not NHL ready so DAL probably wouldn't do this. Who plays Robidas' minutes? Morrow is a ways away from NHL ready. 2 more years probably.

I also don't think any Pen's D prospect is off the table outside of DePo. Pens have enough of them to trade a few away.


Last edited by wgknestrick: 01-14-2013 at 12:07 PM.
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01-14-2013, 12:18 PM
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Would love Ryder with the Pens. Wanted them to make a push for him in the worst way when he was a UFA. I'd agree that Kennedy would be a piece going back to Dallas along with a prospect defensemen and a mid round draft pick or so. This is all assuming Dallas would be eliminated from the playoffs, of course.

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Old
01-14-2013, 12:55 PM
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The search for a winger by Penguins fans has reached epic proportions despite their total lack of a need for an upgrade at this position.

The disregard of the problem with their defense is staggering. There is no way they can beat every team 8-7. Sonner or later they will hit a hot goalie and lose every game 7-1 and look bad doing it.

Their defense made their goaltendeing look worse than the average quality it is, and it isn't just the defenseman, it is the forwards lack of defensive play, at least that is how it was in the playoffs.

The highest scoring team in the league just doesn't need to add scoring unless it is at absolute bargain prices that they cannot refuse.

I would look at trading some of the fine D propsects they have for an established high quality defensive defenseman, someone in the mold of Dan Girardi or Dennis Seidenberg. A leader on defense, a guy who will tell the other D how to play the game that the coach wants them to play at the most effective level.

Scoring is only half the game, they won't be an elite team if they can't keep the puck out of their net.

Ok, there is my rant. I live in Pittsburgh and talk hockey with every Pens fan I can, it is rare for any of them to agree with me, but every once in a while I meet someone

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01-14-2013, 01:03 PM
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wgknestrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
The search for a winger by Penguins fans has reached epic proportions despite their total lack of a need for an upgrade at this position.

The disregard of the problem with their defense is staggering. There is no way they can beat every team 8-7. Sonner or later they will hit a hot goalie and lose every game 7-1 and look bad doing it.

Their defense made their goaltendeing look worse than the average quality it is, and it isn't just the defenseman, it is the forwards lack of defensive play, at least that is how it was in the playoffs.

The highest scoring team in the league just doesn't need to add scoring unless it is at absolute bargain prices that they cannot refuse.

I would look at trading some of the fine D propsects they have for an established high quality defensive defenseman, someone in the mold of Dan Girardi or Dennis Seidenberg. A leader on defense, a guy who will tell the other D how to play the game that the coach wants them to play at the most effective level.

Scoring is only half the game, they won't be an elite team if they can't keep the puck out of their net.

Ok, there is my rant. I live in Pittsburgh and talk hockey with every Pens fan I can, it is rare for any of them to agree with me, but every once in a while I meet someone

The flaw in your logic is you assume PIT's goal against problems lie solely at the feet of their D. Goals against are a result of a total system. Generally you have #shots against (defense) x SV% (goaltending). They aren't totally independent of each other, but you get the point.

Pens were #4 in shots against last year....#5 the year before that (that's pretty consistent D IMO)
Pens were #23 in team SV%....#8 the year before that

I wonder what changed for the worse to cause their problems? I would place that right on the goaltender's mat before anyone else. I wonder if the Pens acquired any top talent goaltender in the offseason that has historically been much better than MAF?

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01-14-2013, 01:04 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
The flaw in your logic is you assume PIT's goal against problems lie solely at the feet of their D. Goals against are a result of a total system. Generally you have #shots against (defense) x SV% (goaltending). They aren't totally independent of each other, but you get the point.

Pens were #4 in shots against last year....#5 the year before that (that's pretty consistent D IMO)
Pens were #23 in team SV%....#8 the year before that

I wonder what changed for the worse to cause their problems? I would place that right on the goaltender's mat before anyone else. I wonder if the Pens acquired any top talent goaltender in the offseason that has historically been much better than MAF?
Except for that part where I said it isn't just their D.

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01-14-2013, 01:30 PM
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wgknestrick
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
Except for that part where I said it isn't just their D.
To me, every minor defensive mistake is exaggerated when your goaltender saves 0 of those shots. At some point, the team in front of that goaltender stops caring when they have 0 confidence in their goaltender. Over the last 9 years, MAF has only posted 2 years of a playoff SV% over .900. Both years the Pens went to the SCF. Is it still the defense's fault at that point? MAF has posted similar results in front of every single defensive lineup he's played behind (except 1 or 2). POOR results.

You'd stop digging too if I continually shoveled your dirt bag into your hole. I'm just suggesting that a very good Pen's team quit in front of MAF because they had seen enough of his sub par play give away goal after goal, undermining their effort to win the game.


So back on topic. I'm guessing Ryder is viewed as expendable by a decent amount of DAL fans?

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01-14-2013, 06:48 PM
  #20
LatvianTwist
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If we're out of the playoffs or Morrow returns to top 6 form.

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01-14-2013, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post


I propose Tyler Kennedy + (1 of Morrow, Depres, or ??) + 2nd round pick
All that for Michael Ryder? Hell no! That's awful for the Pens.

Not a chance either Morrow or Despres would be available in a deal for Michael Ryder.

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01-14-2013, 07:09 PM
  #22
nmbr_24
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
To me, every minor defensive mistake is exaggerated when your goaltender saves 0 of those shots. At some point, the team in front of that goaltender stops caring when they have 0 confidence in their goaltender. Over the last 9 years, MAF has only posted 2 years of a playoff SV% over .900. Both years the Pens went to the SCF. Is it still the defense's fault at that point? MAF has posted similar results in front of every single defensive lineup he's played behind (except 1 or 2). POOR results.

You'd stop digging too if I continually shoveled your dirt bag into your hole. I'm just suggesting that a very good Pen's team quit in front of MAF because they had seen enough of his sub par play give away goal after goal, undermining their effort to win the game.


So back on topic. I'm guessing Ryder is viewed as expendable by a decent amount of DAL fans?
MAF is a mediocre #1 goaltender, average, middle of the pack, he isn't going to stop that many shots when the team is letting the opposition have a clear path to the net.

I saw Sidney Crosby blow his coverage on his man more times than I can remember in that Philly series. Giroux had his way with him and looked like a better player than Crosby for that series. When your leader leads like that your team is probably going to have trouble unless you have a steadying force, like a very good shutdown D to counteract that. Crosby probably just got overwhelmed with emotion in that series, he certainly looked like he lost control of his emotions, but teams follow their captain.

My guess is that if the Penguins would have had a defensive guy who could not only calm down the room but back it up with his play, they would have beaten the Flyers.

The Penguins have several problems, my point is that the absolute least of their problems is a scoring winger.

Just to clarify because I know people will get bent out of shape, I think Crosby is the best player in the game he was just over his head as far as leadership goes in that series and the fact that he was out for so long is no small part why.

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01-14-2013, 07:38 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Ryder currently is signed for this season at 3.5mil and is a top 6 wing. He is a UFA at the end of this season. Solid scoring at 2.5pts / 60min at even strength. Him being at a UFA in 6 months has to be considered in this deal.

What does DAL want in return for this player?

(Pens have tons of D prospects, some of which are NHL ready)


I propose Tyler Kennedy + (1 of Morrow, Depres, or ??) + 2nd round pick

TK currently scores at top 6 rate (roughly 2.0pts / 60min on average) and is probably a top 6 forward on DAL #2 line. He makes 1.5mil less (which is huge to DAL) and fills in most of Ryder's scoring hole. TK is still a RFA at the end of this season. He is a very underrated player by most here, and usually played against top competition on Staal's line. I don't want to trade him, but probably have to include him to return some of Ryder's scoring.

Big D also gets their pick of a solid D prospect not named Pouliott. Most of the remaining prospects are of decent value and pedigree. Certainly not elite prospects, but most likely a couple of NHLer's in there.
Dallas has an owner now, and tons of cap room. Zero reason to want to lower payroll.

Also, there is no real motivation to get rid of Ryder, especially for parts/prospects... he's a very productive player.

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01-14-2013, 09:26 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by eartotheground View Post
Dallas has an owner now, and tons of cap room. Zero reason to want to lower payroll.

Also, there is no real motivation to get rid of Ryder, especially for parts/prospects... he's a very productive player.
That's why I want him. Has ownership mentioned anything of spending more? I know Big D has some of the lowest ticket prices in the league and still some issues filling the building. Also has Ryder mentioned anything about resigning? He may leave for nothing.

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01-14-2013, 09:40 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
MAF is a mediocre #1 goaltender, average, middle of the pack, he isn't going to stop that many shots when the team is letting the opposition have a clear path to the net.

I saw Sidney Crosby blow his coverage on his man more times than I can remember in that Philly series. Giroux had his way with him and looked like a better player than Crosby for that series. When your leader leads like that your team is probably going to have trouble unless you have a steadying force, like a very good shutdown D to counteract that. Crosby probably just got overwhelmed with emotion in that series, he certainly looked like he lost control of his emotions, but teams follow their captain.

My guess is that if the Penguins would have had a defensive guy who could not only calm down the room but back it up with his play, they would have beaten the Flyers.

The Penguins have several problems, my point is that the absolute least of their problems is a scoring winger.

Just to clarify because I know people will get bent out of shape, I think Crosby is the best player in the game he was just over his head as far as leadership goes in that series and the fact that he was out for so long is no small part why.
Its not a problem, but they have the money to get a legit top winger nd a defenseman. The way you are talking is as if the pens get a 3-4 mil a year wing they wouldnt have the money for a solid defenseman still.

People go after Pens fans like they havent been in the playoffs the last several years and went to 2 cups(when they had better wingers) and defenseman. Your argument is moot.

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