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The Luongo Thread: Sympathy For The Devil

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01-14-2013, 09:41 PM
  #51
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Kadri-Gunnarson, for luongo

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01-14-2013, 09:42 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Also, if you're going to get a guy that may or may not be a fit you may as well get the guy that makes less money. Lu for Bozak ++ allows us to add salary, Lu for Connolly ++ does not.
Connolly makes the same money as Kesler - Gilman would work his magic on that front.

The reason I don't like Bozak is because he's the Leafs 1st line centre, is best friends with Phil Kessel and would represent a big portion of value in the deal. I don't want Bozak as one of the main components. He's not a throw-in for Toronto - even if that's what we think of him.

Connolly has always been a timid, lazy floater with a questionable defensive game. But he's still one of the bigger point producing centremen in the NHL over the last 6 seasons. His PPG before last season was very similar to Brad Richards. There's a reason he commanded $5mil...

Who is going to centre the 2nd PP unit? Don't see Bozak filling that void. Connolly probably could.

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01-14-2013, 09:43 PM
  #53
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Now those intersting comments from the panthers today. Not denying going after lu and saying "wel see how things go" basically. Interesting.

Weiss would look good in a Canuck uni.
For all we know, Luongo has gone to Gillis and said that he will accept a trade, but only to FLA and that Gillis has asked him to keep that to himself so he can get max value.

I don't expect much from FLA, but I like their trash better than TO's trash.

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Old
01-14-2013, 09:46 PM
  #54
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What I meant to say is that by age 25, I wouldn't consider any player a prospect. Your either a NHLer, or a bust (until proven otherwise which was garrison's case).
What about a guy who's 24 and put up 14 goals in 23 AHL games and 8 goals in 56 NHL games? What if he follows that up with 10 goals in 13 AHL playoff games? Still a bust?

Or does he become a bust on his 25th birthday?

Frattin is a prospect because he's still at that point in his development. He has been a pro for one and a half seasons.

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01-14-2013, 09:52 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
What about a guy who's 24 and put up 14 goals in 23 AHL games and 8 goals in 56 NHL games? What if he follows that up with 10 goals in 13 AHL playoff games? Still a bust?

Or does he become a bust on his 25th birthday?

Frattin is a prospect because he's still at that point in his development. He has been a pro for one and a half seasons.
At the age of 25, anything he does outside the NHL is fairly inconsequential to me. Not saying Frattin wont translate his good AHL year into a good NHL year, but a prospect is still a very long stretch for him. And no, I didn't mean to make things as black or white as age 25, but imo I consider a player a prospect until the age of 23, otherwise I don't have much hope for them unless proven otherwise. I give slightly more leeway for d-man and even more for goalies though.

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Old
01-14-2013, 09:56 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
Remember what they have asked for Tomas kaberle? They asked for Cody Hodgson for him, that is leaf logic for them.
You're missing some valuable points:

The joke you guys are attempting is that if the shoe was on the other foot; the Leafs would be asking for the same pie in the sky price you guys are requesting for Luongo. You guys then laugh that it is "Leafs logic".

Does anyone see the obvious problem with that line of thinking?

Next; your comment does not have much of a point:

Hodgson was traded for Kassian
Kaberle was traded for Colbourne, 1st Rounder, 2nd Rounder

Kaberle's return was higher than Hodgson's return.

That's some great "Leafs logic"; for sure!

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01-14-2013, 09:58 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by MajorCanuck View Post
At the age of 25, anything he does outside the NHL is fairly inconsequential to me. Not saying Frattin wont translate his good AHL year into a good NHL year, but a prospect is still a very long stretch for him. And no, I didn't mean to make things as black or white as age 25, but imo I consider a player a prospect until the age of 23, otherwise I don't have much hope for them unless proven otherwise. I give slightly more leeway for d-man and even more for goalies though.
Prospect "the possibility or likelihood of a future event occurring"

Frattin is pretty likely imo to make the NHL full-time. He's either a prospect or an NHLer... not a bust.

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Old
01-14-2013, 09:59 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
You're missing some valuable points:

The joke you guys are attempting is that if the shoe was on the other foot; the Leafs would be asking for the same pie in the sky price you guys are requesting for Luongo. You guys then laugh that it is "Leafs logic".

Does anyone see the obvious problem with that line of thinking?

Next; your comment does not have much of a point:

Hodgson was traded for Kassian
Kaberle was traded for Colbourne, 1st Rounder, 2nd Rounder

Kaberle's return was higher than Hodgson's return.

That's some great "Leafs logic"; for sure!
I've seen many Leafs fans not wanting to give up more than Bozak + a 2nd round pick for Luongo.

That's like the Canucks offering the Leafs Raymond + a 2nd + 3rd (if Luongo was on the Leafs), which is garbage for an allstar goalie.

And anyone not visually impaired knew Kaberle was severely declining in play and that Boston overpaid big time for him. He was playing bottom pairing minutes in the cup finals.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:05 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Prospect "the possibility or likelihood of a future event occurring"

Frattin is pretty likely imo to make the NHL full-time. He's either a prospect or an NHLer... not a bust.
You clearly like Frattin more than me. Imo, he will be a fringe NHLer/career AHLer.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:12 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by MajorCanuck View Post
You clearly like Frattin more than me. Imo, he will be a fringe NHLer/career AHLer.
Is he not basically a poor man's Weise?

I don't see the huge value either.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:14 PM
  #61
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Is he not basically a poor man's Weise?

I don't see the huge value either.
woah, woah, woah. A poor man's weise?
You do realize you're talking about the Gretzky of the Netherlands, right?

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01-14-2013, 10:15 PM
  #62
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I think luongo gets dealt by wednesday.

I just don't see the team keeping lu here for another year. It's a gong show in the media.

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01-14-2013, 10:16 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
I think luongo gets dealt by wednesday.

I just don't see the team keeping lu here for another year. It's a gong show in the media.
I agree. Let's just hope it's not a terrible return (I doubt it will be) because we'd never hear the end of it from Leafs fans.

'how did we not get him?! Bozak is way better than ___ from team __.' Then watch Luongo elevate his new team to another level while the Leafs miss the playoffs ... again.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:17 PM
  #64
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Gillis is working out a deal for Luongo to go to Florida right now. I think that's pretty clear.

FLA: Luongo, Connauton, Read, Philly 2nd, Vancouver 2nd
PHI: Kulikov
VAN: Voracek

I think the value is very fair here. Though Florida is probably looking for more quality than quantity.

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01-14-2013, 10:17 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
I agree. Let's just hope it's not a terrible return (I doubt it will be) because we'd never hear the end of it from Leafs fans.

'how did we not get him?! Bozak is way better than ___ from team __.'
Just seems the Canucks are playing the final hardball game here before a deal.

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01-14-2013, 10:17 PM
  #66
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I don't see a fit with Toronto. They just don't have the assets to make this deal and I don't see that changing during the course of this season. It is far more likely that someone else develops a bigger need for Lu.

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01-14-2013, 10:18 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
Gillis is working out a deal for Luongo to go to Florida right now. I think that's pretty clear.

FLA: Luongo, Connauton, Read, Philly 2nd, Vancouver 2nd
PHI: Kulikov
VAN: Voracek

I think the value is very fair here. Though Florida is probably looking for more quality than quantity.
LOL you can't be serious about that return to vancouver..........

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:19 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
Just seems the Canucks are playing the final hardball game here before a deal.
I think it's a mistake, the longer the saga goes the lower Luongo's value is due to age and the inevitable cap crunch next season.

At least GMMG didn't trade for ****ing Luke Schenn. Although if he managed to pull a 3-teamer it would've been nice to have gotten JVR.

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01-14-2013, 10:20 PM
  #69
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I think luongo gets dealt by wednesday.

I just don't see the team keeping lu here for another year. It's a gong show in the media.
I disagree, I think it'll be a couple of weeks before he gets dealt.
Lately we haven't heard much about any team being really interested, just about a few teams that have some interest in Luongo (Toronto, Florida, Philly, Edmonton, Chicago).

Nonis and the other GMs are going to want to see how their teams are doing after a few games and decide if they really need Luongo at that time.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:20 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
I think it's a mistake, the longer the saga goes the lower Luongo's value is due to age and the inevitable cap crunch next season.

At least GMMG didn't trade for ****ing Luke Schenn. Although if he managed to pull a 3-teamer it would've been nice to have gotten JVR.
I think this is fair..

To Philly0 Kulikov
To FLorida- Luongo
To Van Coutirier

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:20 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
I think it's a mistake, the longer the saga goes the lower Luongo's value is due to age and the inevitable cap crunch next season.

At least GMMG didn't trade for ****ing Luke Schenn. Although if he managed to pull a 3-teamer it would've been nice to have gotten JVR.
Can it really go lower than Bozak and spare change? I mean those are barely assets.

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01-14-2013, 10:22 PM
  #72
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I still don't get why Florida would want him - unless they're moving Theodore. But who would take Theodore? Would he be coming back to Vancouver? Or would another team need to be involved?

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:23 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
I think it's a mistake, the longer the saga goes the lower Luongo's value is due to age and the inevitable cap crunch next season.

At least GMMG didn't trade for ****ing Luke Schenn. Although if he managed to pull a 3-teamer it would've been nice to have gotten JVR.
For all we know, MG already has a good idea of the best trade he's going to get, has it in the bag, but is just waiting it out a bit longer to see if any suprises come up. That seems like how MG operates to me.

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01-14-2013, 10:23 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
Can it really go lower than Bozak and spare change? I mean those are barely assets.
Trade Luongo now - Leafs offer Bozak+

Trade Luongo next year - Leafs offer Lombardi+

And people wonder why we would rather ice our tandem.

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01-14-2013, 10:23 PM
  #75
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Can it really go lower than Bozak and spare change? I mean those are barely assets.
I completely agree.
If we really need a 3rd line center, we can pick one up at the deadline for a 2nd/3rd round pick (at most).

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