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Penguins 2013 (and beyond) lineup discussion | Contract chart in Post #1

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:07 PM
  #876
vyktor
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Well I am assuming a little bit here, but I don't think it's out of reason to see that Tangradi will be getting yanked around again with random benchings for unknown reasons, and getting replaced by pluggers like Glass or Cooke for the majority of games because they will need that "defensive presence" to secure the lead, or put more proven scorers there to get a lead. If you're going to put him on that line, then put him on that line. Don't put him and 4 or 5 other players on that line depending on the situation.

Tangradi needs consistency, not being bounced around. I'd rather see him play consistently on the 4th line, than play 5 minutes a night on the 2nd. That clearly hasn't helped his development up until now.

Like I said, it's not just Tangradi. Jeffrey has more of a claim to be tried out in a top line position than him, but he's not even in the discussion so far.

I just want to be proven wrong that Bylsma actually knows how to develop and utilize young forwards. What I've seen so far makes it seem like he doesn't though.

edit: I just want people to know what I am upset over isn't the treatment of one specific player. I couldn't give a **** less about Tangradi. Frankly he hasn't proven a whole lot (while not being given a whole lot either). What I'm upset over is Bylsma's treatment of younger players. If you're going to give a young guy a chance, then give him a damn chance. Don't yank the kid around. I don't believe that helps ANY kid develop. I don't care what your pedigree is, if you are constantly worrying about screwing up, or aren't being given consistent minutes, or aren't being shown confidence by the coaching staff to keep putting you back out there, you aren't going to get better, and you're just going to keep worrying about every single little detail that should (and probably has) come naturally at this point in your career.
Just because DB doesn't publicly state in interviews the reasons for Tangradi, or any other player getting benched or limited playing time doesn't mean there isn't one.

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01-14-2013, 10:18 PM
  #877
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HA!

Love TMBG. Lincoln, Flood and Apollo 18, in particular.
As an 8 year old, I remember falling asleep with my Walkman on, listening to Flood. Every single night.

I ****ing love that album.

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01-14-2013, 10:25 PM
  #878
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Yeah... same here. Easily my favorite album as a kid. I remember "Particle Man" and "Istanbul (Not Constantinople)" on Tiny Toons. I guess people mostly think of them as a kiddie band, which is somewhat understandable, but there is definitely more to them than just that.

Sorry to derail a bit for the sake of nostalgia.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:25 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
Yeah... same here. Easily my favorite album as a kid. I remember "Particle Man" and "Istanbul (Not Constantinople)" on Tiny Toons. I guess people mostly think of them as a kiddie band, which is somewhat understandable, but there is definitely more to them than just that.

Sorry to derail a bit for the sake of nostalgia.
I love Fibber Island

On topic: Here on Steiggy Island, Our house is made of Pie (Asham), the Big Dog is two miles wide, and all he talks about is Pie (Asham)

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01-14-2013, 10:27 PM
  #880
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Heck yeah!

See? It's little stuff like this that keeps me coming back here.

That and the pandas.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:43 PM
  #881
Ugene Malkin
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I recently found out They Might Be Giants sing the Hot Dog song...

I've never felt more lame.
Ha, welcome to the club.

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01-14-2013, 11:19 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Well I am assuming a little bit here, but I don't think it's out of reason to see that Tangradi will be getting yanked around again with random benchings for unknown reasons, and getting replaced by pluggers like Glass or Cooke for the majority of games because they will need that "defensive presence" to secure the lead, or put more proven scorers there to get a lead. If you're going to put him on that line, then put him on that line. Don't put him and 4 or 5 other players on that line depending on the situation.

Tangradi needs consistency, not being bounced around. I'd rather see him play consistently on the 4th line, than play 5 minutes a night on the 2nd. That clearly hasn't helped his development up until now.

Like I said, it's not just Tangradi. Jeffrey has more of a claim to be tried out in a top line position than him, but he's not even in the discussion so far.

I just want to be proven wrong that Bylsma actually knows how to develop and utilize young forwards. What I've seen so far makes it seem like he doesn't though.

edit: I just want people to know what I am upset over isn't the treatment of one specific player. I couldn't give a **** less about Tangradi. Frankly he hasn't proven a whole lot (while not being given a whole lot either). What I'm upset over is Bylsma's treatment of younger players. If you're going to give a young guy a chance, then give him a damn chance. Don't yank the kid around. I don't believe that helps ANY kid develop. I don't care what your pedigree is, if you are constantly worrying about screwing up, or aren't being given consistent minutes, or aren't being shown confidence by the coaching staff to keep putting you back out there, you aren't going to get better, and you're just going to keep worrying about every single little detail that should (and probably has) come naturally at this point in your career.
I don't think Tangradi's ever been bounced around the 2nd line and the 4th line, mostly because I can't remember him ever being given a shot on the 2nd line. But I do believe DB has mistakenly taken him out of the line-up in favour of less effective veterans from time to time.

Fact is he's a young, inconsistent player who isn't skilled enough to make it on skill alone - and that doesn't guarantee him a permanent spot on a scoring line with two 1st Team All-Stars. A spot is there for the taking and he looks to have an inside track, but by no means has Tangradi done anything to suggest he deserves to keep the spot no matter how he performs.

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Old
01-14-2013, 11:46 PM
  #883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Bylsma already said in his interview today that Tangradi wouldn't be playing on that line full time. It will be a rotation between players like him, Sutter, Glass, Cooke, etc. as the situation in the game dictates it.

So basically he's going to still continue to get yanked around and benched for long stretches at a time.

We might as well trade him if that's going to be the case again this season.

http://video.penguins.nhl.com/videoc...ed-share-video

I think you're interpreting this way too literally, if that's what you really believe. Basically, what that means to me, is that for 80+% of the time, the line combinations are the same, because it just makes sense, and is consistent with the way that DB and most coaches coach.


I think what DB is really saying is ET is going to get the opportunity, but he's going to stop short of promising a guy who has accomplished nothing a guaranteed spot on that line. It's ET's spot to lose, which should make all ET supporters jump for joy. But it's not good for the competitive psyche for the team to hand a rookie (who's been on a hell of a cold streak) a spot with the best player in the NHL, when there are other guys who also want & deserve a crack at that job.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Tangradi's getting first crack on a scoring line with Malkin. I don't think you can reasonably expect more than that as a rookie...a rookie that wasn't exactly lighting it up down in WBS, even if he was doing other things well.

Exactly. He'll get his shot. It's very obvious by DB's comments today. And if ET performs poorly or mediocrely, and yet Jeffrey (for example) is tearing it up, then that's great! We're looking for one guy to fill one hole. If neither can do it, we'll have a problem. If either one of them can do it well, we're in a great situation. And if they both perform extremely well, we might just have a great trade asset on our hand.


Let's just see where the chips fall and hope for the best.

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Old
01-14-2013, 11:56 PM
  #884
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I'm interpreting this based on Bylsma's past actions. He'll have to prove me wrong this season for me to believe otherwise, and trust me, I'd love for nothing more than to be proved wrong and have somebody repost all of this and throw it back in my face and laugh at how much I overreacted. I have no problem eating crow and admitting how much of an idiot I am.

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Old
01-15-2013, 12:14 AM
  #885
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I'm interpreting this based on Bylsma's past actions. He'll have to prove me wrong this season for me to believe otherwise, and trust me, I'd love for nothing more than to be proved wrong and have somebody repost all of this and throw it back in my face and laugh at how much I overreacted. I have no problem eating crow and admitting how much of an idiot I am.


Psst. Don't we all?



I really want this to be like the lockout, over. I want him to earn his spot first and foremost, but if not please don't make it last all 48 games on figuring out his status with the team. Make a darn decision already.

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Old
01-15-2013, 07:28 AM
  #886
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I just want Tangradi to get regular playing time. With a hole open on Malkin's line it just make sense to give him a shot, because he is young and has potential.

If he can't handle it, the people who love to rag on this kid will come out in full force and beat their chests (not only on here).

They will want to trade him, put him on waivers, etc. I'll just roll my eyes and know that if this happens, he can still play third and fourth line minutes, and make an impact. Then slowly work his way into a top six spot over the next couple of yrs.

If he just becomes a regular third liner when all is said and done, I believe he will have a big impact there as well.

I want him to do well, but if he gets a long look and Despres is paired with Letang, it shows that DB is changing. Both guys may struggle, but at least they will have been given a shot over a vet, which is huge.

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01-15-2013, 08:24 AM
  #887
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I'm of the belief that if the coaching staff doesn't want to at least put Tangradi in a position to succeed in a top 9 role, they should just flat out trade him. No reason to plug him on the 4th line, knowing full well it probably won't end well.

Putting a complementary player on the 4th line and expecting them to "earn it" offensively with the likes of Craig Adams and Joe Vitale is just silly. Tangradi will prove his worth with good players, or he won't. Find out what we have, and then deal with him accordingly.

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Old
01-15-2013, 08:45 AM
  #888
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I'm of the belief that if the coaching staff doesn't want to at least put Tangradi in a position to succeed in a top 9 role, they should just flat out trade him. No reason to plug him on the 4th line, knowing full well it probably won't end well.

Putting a complementary player on the 4th line and expecting them to "earn it" offensively with the likes of Craig Adams and Joe Vitale is just silly. Tangradi will prove his worth with good players, or he won't. Find out what we have, and then deal with him accordingly.
Vitale got a chance to play third line minutes when injuries hit and eventually he will be a third liner when Cooke or TK are gone.

I agree Tangradi should be put in a position to succeed, but I just see no reason to trade him when the return will be zilch and there is a dearth of talented fwd prospects in the system. I think with REGULAR minutes, even on the fourth line, he would eventually work his way up.

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Old
01-15-2013, 08:50 AM
  #889
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Vitale got a chance to play third line minutes when injuries hit and eventually he will be a third liner when Cooke or TK are gone.

I agree Tangradi should be put in a position to succeed, but I just see no reason to trade him when the return will be zilch and there is a dearth of talented fwd prospects in the system. I think with REGULAR minutes, even on the fourth line, he would eventually work his way up.
maybe we can get both Tangradi and Jeffrey on the 4th line. would be interesting to see a 4th line with some talent.

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Old
01-15-2013, 09:13 AM
  #890
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I actually like a fourth line of Vitale-Jeffrey-Glass. I think that line has potential to hit, be aggressive defensively, and even pot some goals. I would like that a lot.

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Old
01-15-2013, 09:32 AM
  #891
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I actually like a fourth line of Vitale-Jeffrey-Glass. I think that line has potential to hit, be aggressive defensively, and even pot some goals. I would like that a lot.
As would I. I really hope that happens but that would mean that either A.) Adams is injured and that never seems to happen or B.) Bylsma is fired which I don't want to see.

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01-15-2013, 11:18 AM
  #892
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Islander claimed Hickey. Not that i thought we wuold claim him. But im getting pissed being at the bottom of the order all the time. I bet Hickey will turn it around aŽla Grabner.

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Old
01-15-2013, 12:13 PM
  #893
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Islander claimed Hickey. Not that i thought we wuold claim him. But im getting pissed being at the bottom of the order all the time. I bet Hickey will turn it around aŽla Grabner.
Grabner had far more upside than Hickey does and just about everyone expected Grabner had, at least, a solid chance of being a top six winger in the NHL when that happened.

Hickey's potential is a bottom pairing guy. He should be a NHLer, but he's not better than anyone the Kings have right now and he never had a really high ceiling to begin with.

FWIW his HF prospect grade is identical to Nick D'Agostino, who we're basically all expecting to lose to the numbers game as well. He's a depth guy who should be a #6 guy in the NHL...but that clearly wasn't going to be with the Kings. I do think it was pretty stupid for the Kings to try to slip him through waivers right now, though. Him being claimed was pretty inevitable...LA really should have kept him in camp to at least try to trade him.

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Old
01-15-2013, 12:34 PM
  #894
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Islander claimed Hickey. Not that i thought we wuold claim him. But im getting pissed being at the bottom of the order all the time. I bet Hickey will turn it around aŽla Grabner.
It's a good thing Shero has kept Strait and Bortuzzo up for the full week. They are both better than Hickey and i'm sure the Islanders would have claimed one of them. That's one less defensive spot open. Strait and Lovejoy might slip through waivers but I doubt Bortusso would.

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Old
01-15-2013, 12:54 PM
  #895
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Brandon Mashinter from the San Jose Sharks has been placed on waivers, he would be great for the fourth line role. Too bad Craig Adams is guaranteed a spot in the NHL. He has a big body-frame listed at 6'4" 230lbs. He's a solid power forward, who's not afraid to drop the gloves (and he's good at it). Has a good set of hands for a player his size, his skating is okay.

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01-15-2013, 01:04 PM
  #896
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Brandon Mashinter from the San Jose Sharks has been placed on waivers, he would be great for the fourth line role. Too bad Craig Adams is guaranteed a spot in the NHL. He has a big body-frame listed at 6'4" 230lbs. He's a solid power forward, who's not afraid to drop the gloves (and he's good at it). Has a good set of hands for a player his size, his skating is okay.
I saw something on CBC that teams had interest so my guess is he will be claimed. I don't know anything about him but seems intriguing. If we didn't have Tangradi and Jeffrey contending for roster spots I'd say take a chance but seems unlikely.

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01-15-2013, 01:07 PM
  #897
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Islander claimed Hickey. Not that i thought we wuold claim him. But im getting pissed being at the bottom of the order all the time. I bet Hickey will turn it around aŽla Grabner.
I honestly doubt he is able to turn it around, plus he is on a bad team which won't help. Grabner got to play with Tavares at least

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01-15-2013, 02:27 PM
  #898
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Islander claimed Hickey. Not that i thought we wuold claim him. But im getting pissed being at the bottom of the order all the time. I bet Hickey will turn it around aŽla Grabner.
I would rather the Penguins be at the bottom of the order, it means they're a good team.

I knew he wouldn't clear waivers and I do think he can be a solid acquisition for NYI, but really even if we had an opportunity to pick him...

Despres
Letang
Orpik
Martin
Niskanen
Engelland
Lovejoy
Strait
Bortuzzo
Dumoulin
Reese
Sneep
Grant
Samuelsson
Morrow
Harrington
Pouliot
Maatta
+

I know you said you didn't think we would claim him, but what would be the point to claim him and keep him on our roster anyways?

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01-15-2013, 02:31 PM
  #899
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It wouldnt be a pont in us claiming him. But i dont like to see teams get players with at least a tiny chance to turn it around for free, especially not division rivals

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01-15-2013, 04:36 PM
  #900
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What about Matt D'Agostini? He as some Blues fans have said on various other boards on HF... The odd man out in their forward group in terms of being slotted correctly/best usage.

He isn't an ideal top six winger, but he has A right handed shot. And is only one season removed from a 21g, 46p season with St. Louis.

He could inject scoring depth into the bottom six, or could be a good plugger in the top six. Should at least be able to match that 11' goal total with our centers.

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