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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:41 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
It's pretty clear that Gillis has set a price he's not willing to go below this season. If Toronto won't pay it, they'll have to go with what they have for now.
Allll the way to a top 5 pick! I'm good with that. We're NOwhere near contender, Luongo or not.

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01-14-2013, 10:42 PM
  #927
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Obviously, Schneider was signed under the assumption that they would shed Luongo's salary. Again, what's the rush? They're not yet facing the prospect of losing key players due to cap pressure. When the time comes, that decision might have to be made. Trading for Bozak + Kadri now is not even close to risk-free. All it takes is for those players to fail to pan out and Schneider to get injured for that deal to be a disaster.

That's a very naive way at looking at a GM's job. There's so much luck involved that you can't possibly that you can't use Stanley Cups as a measuring stick for the success of a GM. Look at how long guys like Sather, Regier, Snow, Holmgren, McPhee, Maloney, and Wilson have been at their jobs. Look to see what patience with Dean Lombardi yielded.
Trading for Kadri/Bozak is absolutely risk-free... not that I'm encouraging it because it wouldn't be offered. Neither have a contract beyond this year. Trading Luongo is what comes with risk of course, as does keeping him.

The reality is, Gillis is in Vancouver to win a Stanley Cup. If he fails to do so, management will at some point decide that they don't feel he's capable of doing so, and mismanaging situations like Luongo's that hurt the team long term is what creates that doubt.

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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
According to most Leaf fans he already was the acting GM. Given his poor record to date, Nonis is on much thinner ice than Gillis. If Gillis was ever fired teams would be lining up to hire him. Nonis had to wait a long time to get another GM job after being canned in Vancouver. This may well be Nonis' last chance. Gillis will do what he thinks is best and won't worry about job security.
He was from a practical standpoint, but he had no accountability up beyond Brian Burke. By hiring Nonis as GM, the board has given accountability and a vote of confidence to him.

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01-14-2013, 10:43 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I'm going off what is being said out there. That's where I'm pulling my "rumours". There's no fabrication. You can question the source, obviously, but not that it was said/reported.
I guess my point is that you're picking the best rumour out there and saying it's the predominate one, when it's not, it was said by one person (recently).

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01-14-2013, 10:44 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
Gillis won't make that mistake.
He may already have. Perhaps Toronto is the only suitor and have made their last best offer. This is the most likely scenario right now.

Let's assume Toronto made an offer, let's also assume Bozak and Kadri is the asking price (seems to be the consensus around here).

So let's say Toronto offered Tim Connolly and Joe Colborne instead (which Gillis promptly laughed and refused). What happens if Reimer returns to his pre-injury form and posts a .915+ sv% this year and the only taker of Luongo disappears?

Gillis could possibly lose his only option to unload Luongo. A lot has to go his way this year, he needs something big to happen to change the trading landscape. The firing of Burke really hurts this situation for Gillis. There's no longer pressure to make a move in Toronto as they have a newly signed GM for 3 years.

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01-14-2013, 10:45 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Trading for Kadri/Bozak is absolutely risk-free... not that I'm encouraging it because it wouldn't be offered. Neither have a contract beyond this year. Trading Luongo is what comes with risk of course, as does keeping him.

The reality is, Gillis is in Vancouver to win a Stanley Cup. If he fails to do so, management will at some point decide that they don't feel he's capable of doing so, and mismanaging situations like Luongo's that hurt the team long term is what creates that doubt.



He was from a practical standpoint, but he had no accountability up beyond Brian Burke. By hiring Nonis as GM, the board has given accountability and a vote of confidence to him.
Agreed and Nonis failed miserably. I think that it's clear that if he doesn't improve the club after his recent failures he will be fired as he was in Vancouver. GM jobs will not be easy for him to find. The clock is ticking on Nonis.


Last edited by vanwest: 01-14-2013 at 10:50 PM.
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Old
01-14-2013, 10:46 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Rinzler View Post
He may already have. Perhaps Toronto is the only suitor and have made their last best offer. This is the most likely scenario right now.

Let's assume Toronto made an offer, let's also assume Bozak and Kadri is the asking price (seems to be the consensus around here).

So let's say Toronto offered Tim Connolly and Joe Colborne instead (which Gillis promptly laughed and refused). What happens if Reimer returns to his pre-injury form and posts a .915+ sv% this year and the only taker of Luongo disappears?

Gillis could possibly lose his only option to unload Luongo. A lot has to go his way this year, he needs something big to happen to change the trading landscape. The firing of Burke really hurts this situation for Gillis. There's no longer pressure to make a move in Toronto as they have a newly signed GM for 3 years.
Says who? Hell, even today, Tallon was saying how talks are ongoing (something like that. i can't find the quote).

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01-14-2013, 10:46 PM
  #932
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Why would Florida trade for Luongo? They have Markstrom waiting in the wings. Or is this just another Vancouver fantasy?
He's hardly a sure thing at this point. He's had one good season in the A bookmarked by two sub-par years. Add to that, the knee surgery.

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01-14-2013, 10:47 PM
  #933
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Agreed and he failed miserably. I think that it's clear that if he doesn't improve the club after his recent failures he will be fired as he was in Vancouver. GM jobs will not be easy for him to find. The clock is ticking on Nonis.
He must sign Luongo at all costs!!!!

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01-14-2013, 10:48 PM
  #934
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He must sign Luongo at all costs!!!!
Not at all costs. But if he runs with the same goaltending that failed miserably last year he will be under the gun. Or don't Leaf fans expect their GM to improve the team?

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:49 PM
  #935
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As a completely neutral party (Red Wings Fan)

Here is my take: I have looked at the Vancouver payroll on Capgeek.
if they want to resign any of (Malholtra, higgins, lapiere, raymond, or replace them with equivalents) then they have to drop ONE of their goalies). In fact in all truth, Vancouver really can't afford any additional GOOD players that make any kind of decent coin. They honestly are really pushing the envelope. THIS year however, they could have ONE player at around 5mil extra, but then he would need to be dropped next year (or else many trades to lower the salaries).

All in all, Vancouver is a very well built team right now, you really cannot get much better. Thus a trade this year should be to pick up a UFA for next year who costs about 5 million to help win the cup, or get prospects that will be very good and on the cheap so that they can contribute and below average salaries in the next few years.

One of their goalies has to go. What oh what can they get for them?


Here is why I see a trade with Toronto as highly unlikely:

If Vancouver wants young Talented players, Toronto really can't spare them
If Vancouver wants a older (27+) player in his prime, the only player I see Toronto willing to give up would be Lupol. (and Toronto is unlikely to want to trade Lupol for an OLDER player, even if he is much better (luongo). So I just don't see this trade happening.

Toronto does need a goalie, but they are better off tanking and/or hoping reimer works out, then trading for luongo. Also Toronto should KEEP their draft choices, so these are not trade options either.


The Teams likely to give up prospects, are teams with weak goal tending , but willing to go for a cup run:

Chicago (they can't afford him honestly, their payroll is also too high)
San Jose (good fit honestly)
Tampa Bay (can afford him)
New Jersey (hedberg back, this may actually be a good spot, brodeur and luongo as a 1-2 before he retires)
Florida (Could afford him)
Ottawa (Could afford him, would they even want him? (or stick with new young guys))

(Every other team has a highly paid goalie, or the teams are clearly tanking)

All these teams are more likely to go for Luongo than Toronto.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:50 PM
  #936
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Agreed and Npnis failed miserably. I think that it's clear that if he doesn't improve the club after his recent failures he will be fired as he was in Vancouver. GM jobs will not be easy for him to find. The clock is ticking on Nonis.
I think it's pretty clear that MLSE just hired Nonis... about 5 days ago. If they didn't have faith in him, they would've hired somebody else.

I'm not sure there's ever been a GM firing in the history of the NHL after 48 games.

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01-14-2013, 10:50 PM
  #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJV123 View Post
Why would Florida trade for Luongo? They have Markstrom waiting in the wings. Or is this just another Vancouver fantasy?
With Luongo you know what you're getting. With Markstrom you're not sure yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Trading for Kadri/Bozak is absolutely risk-free... not that I'm encouraging it because it wouldn't be offered. Neither have a contract beyond this year. Trading Luongo is what comes with risk of course, as does keeping him.

The reality is, Gillis is in Vancouver to win a Stanley Cup. If he fails to do so, management will at some point decide that they don't feel he's capable of doing so, and mismanaging situations like Luongo's that hurt the team long term is what creates that doubt.
No. It's not. If both players walk, it's the same as waiving him in the offseason except that you lose your fall-back if Schneider gets injured. Whether that's being offered or not, that's not risk-free.

Every medium-/big-market GM's job is to win the cup, yet you're only giving this ultimatum to Gillis apparently.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:52 PM
  #938
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He's hardly a sure thing at this point. He's had one good season in the A bookmarked by two sub-par years. Add to that, the knee surgery.
Tallon also seems to understand that it makes sense to pick up elite talent at a discount whenever possible. If Florida can start to be a consistent playoff team because of the deal, the contract more than pays for itself.

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01-14-2013, 10:52 PM
  #939
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Not at all costs. But if he runs with the same goaltending that failed miserably last year he will be under the gun. Or don't Leaf fans expect their GM to improve the team?
In the grand scheme of things, getting another top-5 pick under Nonis in a 48 game season is something that ownership could deal with, I think.

If it was Burke, they'd expect playoffs, but Nonis has been given the green light to run the team his way and let players develop.

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01-14-2013, 10:53 PM
  #940
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Says who? Hell, even today, Tallon was saying how talks are ongoing (something like that. i can't find the quote).
I used words like "Perhaps". Fact is, trades are open and Luongo hasn't been traded. What does that tell you? There was no deal in the works and they aren't close. The interest is minimal at best. If the puck drops on Saturday then we will know with 100% certainty that nobody is willing to trade tangible value for Luongo.

Do you get a sense of urgency from Tallon to acquire Luongo? I sure as hell don't. He's the #1 player on the market and nothing happened. What do you think is going on? I mean really...

Florida is sitting on a solid goaltending tandem (Theodore posting the same numbers as Luongo which is quite interesting) and one of the best goalie prospects in the NHL. Not to mention they actually made the playoffs last year. They have even less of a reason to acquire Luongo than Toronto does.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:53 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I think it's pretty clear that MLSE just hired Nonis... about 5 days ago. If they didn't have faith in him, they would've hired somebody else.

I'm not sure there's ever been a GM firing in the history of the NHL after 48 games.
They didn't hire him. They fired Burke and promoted the next guy in line because the season was about to start. He has a season to show his bosses that they should keep him on.

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01-14-2013, 10:54 PM
  #942
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I think it's pretty clear that MLSE just hired Nonis... about 5 days ago. If they didn't have faith in him, they would've hired somebody else.

I'm not sure there's ever been a GM firing in the history of the NHL after 48 games.
Nope. He's been the practical GM for the last 4 years. And firing a GM after 48 games has happened but it's probably about as rare as firing a GM two days before training camp.
Clearly MLSE is getting tired of Burke/Nonis excuses. I give Nonis this year to show improvement or get shuffled up to be a senior advisor.

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01-14-2013, 10:54 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by SoTzuMe View Post
With Luongo you know what you're getting. With Markstrom you're not sure yet.


No. It's not. If both players walk, it's the same as waiving him in the offseason except that you lose your fall-back if Schneider gets injured. Whether that's being offered or not, that's not risk-free.

Every medium-/big-market GM's job is to win the cup, yet you're only giving this ultimatum to Gillis apparently.
Yeah, they can walk... no long term commitment or risk that the Canucks need to get rid of them. Everything is within their control.

Like I said, trading Luongo has risks just like keeping him. Getting Gardiner versus Bozak versus Connolly is going to do absolutely nothing to alleviate or change the risk associated with trading him.

Quote:
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Nope. He's been the practical GM for the last 4 years. And firing a GM after 48 games has happened but it's probably about as rare as firing a GM two days before training camp.
Clearly MLSE is getting tired of Burke/Nonis excuses. I give Nonis this year to show improvement or get shuffled up to be a senior advisor.
As repeatedly mentioned, he was not GM. Burke was, in the context of reporting to the board, and had accountability for all things that went on with the Leafs. Now Nonis is, and he is 100% brand new to the role from an organizational perspective -- a decision the Leafs made knowing full well what he contributed to Burke's regime.

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01-14-2013, 10:55 PM
  #944
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Clearly MLSE is getting tired of Burke/Nonis excuses.
Exactly, that's why they just hired him as GM, that'll show him.

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01-14-2013, 10:55 PM
  #945
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I used words like "Perhaps". Fact is, trades are open and Luongo hasn't been traded. What does that tell you? There was no deal in the works and they aren't close. The interest is minimal at best. If the puck drops on Saturday then we will know with 100% certainty that nobody is willing to trade tangible value for Luongo.

Do you get a sense of urgency from Tallon to acquire Luongo? I sure as hell don't. He's the #1 player on the market and nothing happened. What do you think is going on? I mean really...

Florida is sitting on a solid goaltending tandem (Theodore posting the same numbers as Luongo which is quite interesting) and one of the best goalie prospects in the NHL. Not to mention they actually made the playoffs last year. They have even less of a reason to acquire Luongo than Toronto does.
If they realize how much he'd help them, then maybe they should wake up and trade for him before they are left in the dust without him.

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01-14-2013, 10:56 PM
  #946
Sergei Berezin
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Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
Tallon also seems to understand that it makes sense to pick up elite talent at a discount whenever possible. If Florida can start to be a consistent playoff team because of the deal, the contract more than pays for itself.
How much longer will Luongo be elite? A year or two? Maybe less?

Then he'll be a top goalie. The next year he's just a starter. Then it continues snowballing to where Florida is paying a geriatric goaltender to sit on the bench.

I'm not too sure there's much of a discount being given by Gillis, either, or else there would have most likely been a trade made.

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01-14-2013, 10:56 PM
  #947
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Agreed and Npnis failed miserably. I think that it's clear that if he doesn't improve the club after his recent failures he will be fired as he was in Vancouver. GM jobs will not be easy for him to find. The clock is ticking on Nonis.
Nonis actually has more pressure professionally on him than most Leaf fans think. Even if management have written off this year, Nonis has to establish himself individually from Burke. Right now, all he is is a transition GM from when Burke gets fired. He has the Luongo trade on his Vancouver resume, but also drafts like Patrick White and trading away second round picks like they are nothing.

He needs to cement some kind of individual legacy and establish his own brand on this team. He can't just be a continuation of the recently fired regime. Otherwise, he will never get his own GM job in the future.

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01-14-2013, 10:57 PM
  #948
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John Shannon > McCowan, and its not even close.

Bob McKenzie saying Gardiner is a non-starter >>>> John Shannon >>> McCowan

Normally I would agree, but McKenzie really disappointed me with his "inside info" early on about the Luongo trade. He was saying Komisarek + 4th cap dump. If he wasn't so clueless in the beginning, I'd lend more weight to his opinion on _this_ situation. However, now it's hard not seeing him as a mouthpiece for TOR. Just my take.


Shannon is good though. Although he is now obviously proven wrong about the deal being consummated between VAN/TOR.



McCowan may not have the track record, which only made it all the more surprising he came out with the leak that he did. Still unsure what to make of it, but he was adamant that it was a reason. Mirtle also hinted that Burke was in the way of a Luongo deal, and that Nonis was much more open to it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaZuffa View Post
Except that it's been made clear by numerous insiders with more clout than Bob friggin' McCowan and the parties involved it was an issue with the man, Brian Burke, not about some fabled deal in place for Luongo. McCowan is full of it. He's got no idea what's going on.

If that was why Burke was fired, why has the deal not gone down now that he's been gone a few days?


Mirtle, Spector, Dater and McCowan said the Luongo deal was a factor in Burke's firing. McCowan is supported here.


It's not _the_ reason for him being canned, but a contributing factor. Just like his poor record and bad personality were factors. It wasn't _nothing_.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:58 PM
  #949
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How much longer will Luongo be elite? A year or two? Maybe less?

Then he'll be a top goalie. The next year he's just a starter. Then it continues snowballing to where Florida is paying a geriatric goaltender to sit on the bench.

I'm not too sure there's much of a discount being given by Gillis, either, or else there would have most likely been a trade made.
Wow. I don't think too many people who assess NHL talent for a living would agree with your evaluation of Luongo. I'l just leave it at that.

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01-14-2013, 10:59 PM
  #950
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Yeah, they can walk... no long term commitment or risk that the Canucks need to get rid of them. Everything is within their control.

Like I said, trading Luongo has risks just like keeping him. Getting Gardiner versus Bozak versus Connolly is going to do absolutely nothing to alleviate or change the risk associated with trading him.
Except that Gardiner + prospect exceeds the value I would expect to get for Luongo at any point in time (now or the summer). At that point, Nonis is overpaying, and I take the risk. There's where I draw the line between well-calcuated and poorly calculated (unnecessary) risk.

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