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Ryan O'Reilly Signs With Magnitogorsk (2-yr deal)

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01-14-2013, 08:39 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post
They're still negotiating dont see why everyone's tripping. Subban and Benn are doing the same thing and theirs teams fans are much more cool about it. It's the business side of hockey everything will be fine.
Are they in the KHL?

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01-14-2013, 08:40 PM
  #902
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They're still negotiating dont see why everyone's tripping. Subban and Benn are doing the same thing and theirs teams fans are much more cool about it. It's the business side of hockey everything will be fine.
Yeah ok but Subban n Benn are here with no contract ,it different from RoR who has 2 years in Russia

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01-14-2013, 08:41 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post
They're still negotiating dont see why everyone's tripping. Subban and Benn are doing the same thing and theirs teams fans are much more cool about it. It's the business side of hockey everything will be fine.
only difference is both guys are in North America and ROR is HAPPY in Russia. Im sure they be trippin if Subban was in Switzerland and Benn was in Istanbul

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01-14-2013, 09:37 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
Its a business... the Avs had plenty of time to sign him... before the lockout, or during the season. The guy played three years making less than 1 million.

Now he is suposed to take whatever the avs offers him, just because he is 21?? Was he suposed to wait without a contract and without payment until the lockout was over???

The guy signed a lucrative deal, some one thinks he is worth 4M, if the Avs think he is not worth it, they can trade him.
You can't just do whatever you want as a 21 year old and chalk it up to a business deal. 3rd contract maybe, but not after one decent offensive season. There's a line and he's gone past it. He's now put himself so far above the team at a very young unproven age, that there's no reason to have someone like that on the team long term.

The percentage of NHL players that didn't get exactly what they want on their second deal is approaching 100%. Instead of sucking it up like the rest of em and proving himself on a short term deal, he signed a two year deal in Russia and won't come back until he gets the long term deal he wants. That's just too much greed and selfishness for my tastes. I don't care whether he's worth the 4x5 deal or not, and I even think he might be.

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01-14-2013, 09:58 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
You can't just do whatever you want as a 21 year old and chalk it up to a business deal.
Why not? That's exactly what it is.

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3rd contract maybe, but not after one decent offensive season. There's a line and he's gone past it. He's now put himself so far above the team at a very young unproven age, that there's no reason to have someone like that on the team long term.
Someone like what? Someone who negotiates his contract to the best of his (agent's) ability?

Quote:
The percentage of NHL players that didn't get exactly what they want on their second deal is approaching 100%. Instead of sucking it up like the rest of em and proving himself on a short term deal, he signed a two year deal in Russia and won't come back until he gets the long term deal he wants. That's just too much greed and selfishness for my tastes. I don't care whether he's worth the 4x5 deal or not, and I even think he might be.
He already has the short term deal he wants. Why would he give that up for something he doesn't want?

I get that the process is distasteful to you, and I'm not a fan of it myself, but no reason to act like he's not well within his rights, just like the Avs are well within theirs to trade his RFA rights or sit on them until the end of time.


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01-14-2013, 10:00 PM
  #906
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Don't you guys think if Avs really didn't want O'Reilly they would've just traded him already?

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01-14-2013, 10:09 PM
  #907
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It is interesting to check out Mark Guy's profile with Newport Management Team. I know that Lacroix had issues with and did not want to face negotiations with Meehan and his group in the past, but Mark Guy may be the worst of the bunch.

You should take a look at his high profile clients to see the common thread.

Corey Perry, Steven Stamkos, Drew Doughty, Mike Richards, James Neal, Bobby Ryan, PK Subban, MDZ, and Alex Pietrangelo.

A lot of contentious holdouts and negotiations among that group and a couple of the players were traded. The guy does not even have a background as an attorney.

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01-14-2013, 10:15 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Why not?



Someone like what? Someone who negotiates his contract to the best of his (agent's) ability?



He already has the short term deal he wants. Why would he give that up for something he doesn't want?

I get that the process is distasteful to you, and I'm not a fan of it myself, but no reason to act like he's not well within his rights, just like the Avs are well within theirs to trade his RFA rights or sit on them until the end of time.
No offense but you've got to be kidding me. There's no limits? It's all just perfectly reasonable because he doesn't have to sign a deal if he doesn't like it? Someone could insist they're worth a billion dollars on a 100 year contract and its not selfish because its just business?

Given his age and only one year that wasn't even near a PPG pace this is into the too selfish category. Like I said, pretty much every 21 year old in history had to take less than they wanted to some extent. Some players hold out at his age, and depending on the situation that's selfish enough, but he signed a two year deal in Russia that he can't leave unless the Avs give him what he wanted. That's even worse than holding out because you think your worth a lot of money after one good season.

I think we all know the reason for the two years now. His agent said there was no good reason not to, but its pretty obvious that if its around $4M or more a year which I think we have to admit is likely, the Avs probably can't even send him a two year deal. They have to send him three or more so that it is worth more than the two year, or give him a lot more on a two year deal than Duchene got. That's not putting himself way above the team and his own teammates?

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01-14-2013, 10:19 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Goulet17 View Post
It is interesting to check out Mark Guy's profile with Newport Management Team. I know that Lacroix had issues with and did not want to face negotiations with Meehan and his group in the past, but Mark Guy may be the worst of the bunch.
You should take a look at his high profile clients to see the common thread.

Corey Perry, Steven Stamkos, Drew Doughty, Mike Richards, James Neal, Bobby Ryan, PK Subban, MDZ, and Alex Pietrangelo.

A lot of contentious holdouts and negotiations among that group and a couple of the players were traded. The guy does not even have a background as an attorney.
Or the best of the bunch?

Also I'm pretty sure Drew Doughty's agent is Don Meehan.

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01-14-2013, 10:25 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Or the best of the bunch?

Also I'm pretty sure Drew Doughty's agent is Don Meehan.
Meehan is the head of the agency, but Guy would handle day to day matters for the listed clients. Meehan was also involved in the Stamkos negotiation.

If you are a player and you are interested in maximizing your income, he is a great agent. If the player is interested in a long term relationship with the organization with which the player is negotiating, perhaps not so much.

It was well known a few years ago that Lacroix would not deal with Meehan or the players he represented.

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01-14-2013, 10:26 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Don't you guys think if Avs really didn't want O'Reilly they would've just traded him already?
Without a contract and him being in Russia, he's vaule is at it's lowest. The second Sherman makes him available the other managers would smell blood and it would be considered a panic move by the avs. There's no way he gets traded without a contract think of the Turris saga.

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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
No offense but you've got to be kidding me. There's no limits? It's all just perfectly reasonable because he doesn't have to sign a deal if he doesn't like it? Someone could insist they're worth a billion dollars on a 100 year contract and its not selfish because its just business?
Given his age and only one year that wasn't even near a PPG pace this is into the too selfish category. Like I said, pretty much every 21 year old in history had to take less than they wanted to some extent. Some players hold out at his age, and depending on the situation that's selfish enough, but he signed a two year deal in Russia that he can't leave unless the Avs give him what he wanted. That's even worse than holding out because you think your worth a lot of money after one good season.
If he's dumb enough to ask for that he has every right to do so. For all we know O'Rielly just wants to get traded or that he just wants a longer term... we don't have all the facts so it would irresponsible of us to sepculate.

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01-14-2013, 10:27 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
No offense but you've got to be kidding me. There's no limits? It's all just perfectly reasonable because he doesn't have to sign a deal if he doesn't like it? Someone could insist they're worth a billion dollars on a 100 year contract and its not selfish because its just business?
This number isn't coming out of the blue. Someone already gave it to him. So if he wants to make as much money as he's already making, yes, he's entitled to stay at his current job.

Quote:
Given his age and only one year that wasn't even near a PPG pace this into the too selfish category. Like I said, pretty much every 21 year old in history had to take less than they wanted to some extent. Some players hold out at his age, and depending on the situation that's selfish enough, but he signed a two year dealin Russia that he can't leave unless the Avs give him what he wanted. That's even worse than holding out because you think your worth a lot of money after one good season.
No other 21 year olds had the same leverage he does. Like I said, he has a job RIGHT NOW that pays him (if the rumors are correct) $4M/yr to play hockey. You still haven't made an argument for why he should leave that job other than "because I don't like it". It is not bad to switch jobs to take a better salary, even if it makes you unhappy because you really liked him at his current job.

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I think we all know the reason for the two years now. His agent said there was no good reason not to, but its pretty obvious that if its around $4M or more a year which I think we have to admit is likely, the Avs probably can't even send him a two year deal. They have to send him three or more so that it is worth more than the two year, or give him a lot more on a two year deal than Duchene got. That's not putting himself way above the team and his own teammates?
At the time he signed the contract, he didn't even HAVE a team, or teammates, for that matter. He accepted what someone thought was fair to pay him.

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01-14-2013, 10:30 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by Goulet17 View Post
Meehan is the head of the agency, but Guy would handle day to day matters for the listed clients. Meehan was also involved in the Stamkos negotiation.

If you are a player and you are interested in maximizing your income, he is a great agent. If the player is interested in a long term relationship with the organization with which the player is negotiating, perhaps not so much.

It was well known a few years ago that Lacroix would not deal with Meehan or the players he represented.
Hmm did not know that, good to know.

Good thing he's no longer the manager of the avs.

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01-14-2013, 10:47 PM
  #914
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Hmm did not know that, good to know.

Good thing he's no longer the manager of the avs.
There are plenty of reasons why it's a good thing Lacroix is no longer the Avs GM but it doesn't seem like they're more willing to deal with Meehan and his agency now. Avs only have two players represented by Newport Sports Management, O'Reilly and Wilson. Wilson just re-signed and O'Reilly remains unsigned. Winnik was another guy represented by that firm and there was a lot of speculation that those contract talks weren't going well at all and that was one of the reasons why the Avs traded him.

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01-14-2013, 11:00 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post

If he's dumb enough to ask for that he has every right to do so. For all we know O'Rielly just wants to get traded or that he just wants a longer term... we don't have all the facts so it would irresponsible of us to sepculate.
I'm not sure what your stance is on this. Are you saying that him forcing this situation to get traded is ok with you?

We don't need all the factual info to form an opinion on this situation. Signing a contract in Russia after one decent year because you didn't get the deal you wanted is something purely selfish players like Radulov do.

The lockout barely plays a role in this. He could have signed a one year deal in the KHL, or signed in another league with a regular out clause that didn't need to be matched if he simply wanted to play and support himself like the other players that signed over seas. His brother playing there isn't enough to put himself in this situation with his NHL team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
This number isn't coming out of the blue. Someone already gave it to him. So if he wants to make as much money as he's already making, yes, he's entitled to stay at his current job.



No other 21 year olds had the same leverage he does. Like I said, he has a job RIGHT NOW that pays him (if the rumors are correct) $4M/yr to play hockey. You still haven't made an argument for why he should leave that job other than "because I don't like it". It is not bad to switch jobs to take a better salary, even if it makes you unhappy because you really liked him at his current job.



At the time he signed the contract, he didn't even HAVE a team, or teammates, for that matter. He accepted what someone thought was fair to pay him.
This is just a ridiculous stance. I haven't made an argument for why he should leave his current job? That's a complete strawman. Only players like Radulov or others do things like this. It's not a question of if he's within his rights. He's a two way center with one 55 point season. He found a loophole to give himself leverage to get the deal he thinks he deserves.

There's a reason why 21 year olds with one decent season don't usually have leverage. Most everyone else has been able to accept that without taking tricky extreme measures to get paid. The ones that don't, and think theyre entitled to special treatment are the kind of players you don't want on your team.

I'll say it again. Name one player in a a remotely comparable situation, that took similar measures as a 21 year old with one season around 55 points, that you would want on your team.


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01-14-2013, 11:32 PM
  #916
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You realize that the "pro" part of Pro-athletes stands for professional, right? And that these professionals work in an industry with a relatively short time frame in which a player can cash out? Then why are you *****ing about greed when a player tries to maximize his earning potential while he sacrifices his body and mind for our entertainment?

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01-14-2013, 11:34 PM
  #917
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For all your *****ing about Radulov, I'd absolutely love to have him on this team. Would be such a great fit on the ice, he and PAP would turn Duchene into a 40+ goal scorer.

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01-15-2013, 12:08 AM
  #918
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You realize that the "pro" part of Pro-athletes stands for professional, right? And that these professionals work in an industry with a relatively short time frame in which a player can cash out? Then why are you *****ing about greed when a player tries to maximize his earning potential while he sacrifices his body and mind for our entertainment?
dude is handicapping and extorting his team.

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01-15-2013, 12:33 AM
  #919
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
We don't need all the factual info to form an opinion on this situation. Signing a contract in Russia after one decent year because you didn't get the deal you wanted is something purely selfish players like Radulov do.
Please demonstrate that he signed in Russia because he didn't get the deal he wanted.

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The lockout barely plays a role in this. He could have signed a one year deal in the KHL, or signed in another league with a regular out clause that didn't need to be matched if he simply wanted to play and support himself like the other players that signed over seas. His brother playing there isn't enough to put himself in this situation with his NHL team.
Please demonstrate that a one year deal, or a deal with a regular out clause is better than the deal he signed. Alternatively, explain why he would take a worse deal than one currently on the table.

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This is just a ridiculous stance. I haven't made an argument for why he should leave his current job? That's a complete strawman. Only players like Radulov or others do things like this. It's not a question of if he's within his rights. He's a two way center with one 55 point season. He found a loophole to give himself leverage to get the deal he thinks he deserves.
Why is it a straw man? You're saying that he should leave his current contract that he's happy with. Therefore, I ask you why he should leave it.

Accepting a contract with another league is not a loophole. It's choosing one job offer over another. You think he took that contract to give him leverage with Colorado? I think he took the contract because he wanted $4M (rumored) per season and they were willing to give it to him. Neither of us have evidence.

Quote:
There's a reason why 21 year olds with one decent season don't usually have leverage. Most everyone else has been able to accept that without taking tricky extreme measures to get paid. The ones that don't, and think theyre entitled to special treatment are the kind of players you don't want on your team.
Yes, there is a reason why most players in O'Reilly's situation don't have leverage. That reason is because they don't see other leagues (particularly the KHL, with whom the NHL's interleague agreement is particularly tenuous) as viable options, for various reasons. Ryan O'Reilly clearly has no such hang-up.

Quote:
I'll say it again. Name one player in a a remotely comparable situation, that took similar measures as a 21 year old with one season around 55 points, that you would want on your team.
You can say it as many times as you like, but you still haven't established that a) he signed the contract in order to force the Avs into a better deal, or b) that what he's doing is inappropriate. As for naming other guys who have been in similar situations, who has been in this situation before?

The situation is: The player is locked out, and does not have a valid contract with the team that is locking him out. While locked out, he is offered a contract that he feels is acceptable by a team in another league. He accepts the offer. The lockout ends. His team in the formerly locked out league now wants him to play for them again, but doesn't want to give him the same deal that he currently has in the new league.

I can't think of another player who has been in that situation. I can, however, safely say that Ryan O'Reilly is a guy who has been in that situation that I would want on my team. Unfortunately, it's not clear whether that team values him as highly as Magnitogorsk does.

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01-15-2013, 12:35 AM
  #920
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dude is handicapping and extorting his team.
False. His team is Magnitogorsk, since that is the only team with whom he has a valid player contract.

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01-15-2013, 12:39 AM
  #921
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dude is handicapping and extorting his team.
lol do you even know what extortion is? And how it's different from having leverage in negotiation?

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01-15-2013, 12:40 AM
  #922
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Lol people need to stop freaking out. It's been two days since the MOU was completed. It may take a while but he should be signed before the start of the season. People are all of sudden attacking his character because he hasn't signed yet when they know nothing about the situation. Just seems a little ridiculous.

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01-15-2013, 12:49 AM
  #923
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Right now without RoR we know one line that click Stastny's line but for the others nothing is sure yet and for a short season Sacco will try everybody everywhere ,pressure on the Avs but with RoR in ,at least we can be sure we would have at least 2 lines that clicks .Bring back the hardest worker
Disagree. Mcginn came in on fire, but went very, very cold towards the end.

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01-15-2013, 12:55 AM
  #924
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Disagree. Mcginn came in on fire, but went very, very cold towards the end.
if McGinn puts up 30+ points, you should eat a worm.


(again)

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01-15-2013, 01:00 AM
  #925
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This has put a damper on my excitement of having NHL hockey back. Pissed me off beyond belief because I knew him signing in Russia wasn't just for funsy.
Don't worry mate, your not the only one. If there is ever one club's fans that shouldn't have to endure more grief, it's us, but management and the players don't care about that to be fair.

Honestly, if Avs played in front of 15 people at Pepsi Center, I don't think management would care as long as they have jobs.

I seriously contend that is the contempt this club has for its fans at the moment. It's a shame, because I love the brand so danged much, regardless of the people presently working for it.

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