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Hemsky to NJ

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01-13-2013, 09:14 AM
  #226
tmg
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
This is my concern as well.

Assuming both were playing well, we would be trading a winger under 30 years old for a guy that IIRC is 34-35 years old.

I think the Oilers want to target a guy in the 23-29 range, even if it means adding to a package to get someone they like.

I don't understand the relevance.

The Oilers don't own Hemsky's rights until his retirement. They own his rights until the summer of 2014. The same amount of time they'd own Tallinder's rights if the contracts were to be swapped. This mindset that Hemsky has a longer shelflife than Tallinder because he's younger is misplaced. They're both two-season-and-goodbye assets.

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01-13-2013, 10:29 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by tmg View Post
I don't understand the relevance.

The Oilers don't own Hemsky's rights until his retirement. They own his rights until the summer of 2014. The same amount of time they'd own Tallinder's rights if the contracts were to be swapped. This mindset that Hemsky has a longer shelflife than Tallinder because he's younger is misplaced. They're both two-season-and-goodbye assets.
Any team who has Hemsky has the option of extending him, or at least trying to. Tallinder isn't Chris Chelios here, after his current contract, the odds of him retiring are pretty good. Not to mention that its more likely for a 34 year old player to fall off of his game than it is for one who is under 30. You aren't just trading for current contract, but for the potential to have a team leader for 5+ years with Ales Hemsky, vs retirement for Tallinder.

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01-13-2013, 10:39 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post

Does Alex Hemsky throw masticating hits and dive to block shots? No I didn't think so. If Hemsky played a gritty style people wouldn't say he's made out of glass. Anton does, if you sir call Anton Volchenkov made of glass you have probably not watched him play. The dudes a warrior and minus the Florida series any guy would want him on their team.
Hemsky doesn`t throw hits because he`s a puck carrier, which makes him a target. Guys who play that style often get injuries. In his career, aside from his shoulder surgeries, he has played the average number of games per season in the NHL, and the first shoulder injury was from a hit from behind into the boards.



If Ales Hemsky is Mr. Glass, then every other player in the league who has had a major injury and missed time has to be classified as Mr. Glass as well. Travis Zajac, Mr. Glass. Adam Henrique is injured right now, does that make him Mr. Glass too? Malkin has had knee issues in the past, I guess he's made of glass as well.

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01-13-2013, 10:46 AM
  #229
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See but henrique is missing a week and a half, Zajac missed most of last season but te fact is they aren't missing 50-60 games on a regular basis.

Look I'm done here on no plant is Hemsky comparable to toughness to Anton Volchenkov and on no plant is Anton made of glass.

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01-13-2013, 11:38 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
He's been injured but has put up 50 at the NHL level.

Don't say it cause of kovy and Zach cause he maintained same production with Poni and Clarkson
Again, I'm not slamming Henrique, I think he's awesome and wish he was an Oiler. What I am saying is you can't have it both ways. We examine Schultz's numbers and the AHL is an inferior league and the numbers won't translate to NHL success. Then we look at Henrique's numbers and (supposedly) none of those games actually count because he was playing injured (like the Devils would be OK with their young star playing injured through 16 games???), and that his team was bad, and that he's had success at the NHL level (which really only strengthens the argument that it is a good league if a player that good couldn't produce).

If it makes you feel better then we won't mention Henrique and instead look at one of your rivals prospects. Chris Kreider put up 5-7-12 and a -6 rating in 33 games. Most would call him one of the better prospects in hockey (somewhere in the top 10-15 sounds about right). He also had a decent showing in the playoffs last year for an NHL rook, yet couldn't dominate in the AHL. Could it be that the league (especially in a lockout year) is actually very tough competition?

But I suppose a quadrapalegic midget could have done what Schultz did, right?

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01-13-2013, 12:11 PM
  #231
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I think Schultz will put up numbers for you, just not at the ridiculous rate he was doing in OC.

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01-13-2013, 12:24 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by JWINK19 View Post
I think Schultz will put up numbers for you, just not at the ridiculous rate he was doing in OC.
Agreed. It would be ridiculous to expect that. My prediction was 25-30pts if he plays all 48 games, yet man doubters in this thread scoff at the suggestion. The fact of the matter is he will get 1st unit PP time on a PP that was 3rd in the league last year and should be even better since the kids are a year older and wiser.

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01-13-2013, 12:37 PM
  #233
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EDM is not going to trade Hemsky until he comes back and plays a bit and proves himself. I do agree that Hemsky still has to show that he is fully healed. You can not deny that he is a legit top 6 with a lot of skill.

EDM just is not going to trade Hemsky for a dman that is 30 or older as they are a young team. Would they take Tallinder if healthy or Vol of course but would not give up Hemsky for either of them that is all.

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01-13-2013, 12:38 PM
  #234
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I wouldn't mind seeing Hemsky on the Jets. We need a playmaking RW to play next to Kane and Jokinen who are both shoot-first guys.

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01-13-2013, 10:57 PM
  #235
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This 4th period speculation is BS anyway. That trade could never happen. Unmovable Devils RWers are Clarkson, Butler, Bernier and last but not least, under Pete Deboer Kovalchuk is also a RW. Zubrus and Tedenby could play LW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice
I asked if Butler playing RW with Zajac today was a possibility for the season and that's when DeBoer mentioned they still have Kovy as RW.
If Devils makes a trade, it's for a top 6 LW.

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01-13-2013, 11:40 PM
  #236
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The Oilers have Whitney, Smid, Petry, N.Schultz, and J.Schultz who are all(or probably will be in Justins case) quality second pairing defenseman. They dont need yet another second pairing guy(Tallinder/Volchenkov). They need a quality first pairing guy which they'll probably get this summer.

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01-14-2013, 03:15 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
The Oilers have Whitney, Smid, Petry, N.Schultz, and J.Schultz who are all(or probably will be in Justins case) quality second pairing defenseman. They dont need yet another second pairing guy(Tallinder/Volchenkov). They need a quality first pairing guy which they'll probably get this summer.
Seth is awesome

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01-14-2013, 09:04 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
My god Henrik Tallinder is not a depth defensemen. 2nd pairing guy and when he was in Buffalo, want to know why Tyler Myers had so much success? Henrik Tallinder.

That's why Buffalo wants him back
Late to the party... but if Buffalo wants him back... let's send over Tallinder and a 2nd for Stafford lol

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01-14-2013, 09:09 AM
  #239
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I don't really see the Oil trading Hemsky unless it's for an overpayment. With that being said I don't think anyone is ready to overpay for Hemsky.

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01-14-2013, 09:51 PM
  #240
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No Hemsky but maybe it helps both teams...

To NJ- Sam Gagner (1 year, $3.2M, RFA) and Ryan Whitney (1 yr, $4M)

To Edmonton- Travis Zajac (1 year, $3.8M, UFA) and Marek Zidlicky (1 yr, $4M)

Salaries are a wash. Oilers give up younger player at each position (F, D) and are risking a bit more since both could walk in UFA. Zajac is the big center Oilers need on line 2. Zajac is the better center for sure when healthy but the Devils get a better #2/3 defenseman. The gap between Whitney and Zidlicky is bigger than the gap between Gagner and Zajac (same career points/game). Even with his bad year Whitney would have topped their blueline with points.

Devils don't really hurt centers. Had to play without Zajac last year and made finals so makes sense they could downgrade a little bit there and improve defensemen big-time.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Hemsky-Zajac-Yakupov
Smyth-Horcoff-Jones
Eager-Belanger-Petrell

Smid-Petry
Schultz-Schultz
Zidlicky-Firstic

Elias-Henrique-Kovalchuk
Zubrus-Gagner-Tedenby
Butler-Josefson-Clarkson
Carter-Gionta-Bernier

Larsson-Tallinder
Whitney-Green
Salvador-Volchenkov

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01-14-2013, 10:03 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
See but henrique is missing a week and a half, Zajac missed most of last season but te fact is they aren't missing 50-60 games on a regular basis.

Look I'm done here on no plant is Hemsky comparable to toughness to Anton Volchenkov and on no plant is Anton made of glass.
On no, um, "planet", is Volchenkov anywhere near Hemsky in terms of skill and output. I don't think anyone has said Hemsky is tougher than Volchenkov, just that he's a pretty tough guy.

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01-14-2013, 10:11 PM
  #242
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Seth is awesome
Get some new material.

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01-14-2013, 10:12 PM
  #243
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Tough to see the Oilers trading Hemsky with lower value and the fact we need him.

Our AHL team is a perfect example of a team having one line dominate the league and still be able to lose plenty of games.

We need Hemsky and Yakupov on the 2nd line for secondary scoring or else this team is completely screwed.

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01-14-2013, 10:15 PM
  #244
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With the Oilers trading for Mark Fistric you can say this proposal will never happen.

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01-14-2013, 10:23 PM
  #245
SDig14
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Originally Posted by tmg View Post
I don't understand the relevance.

The Oilers don't own Hemsky's rights until his retirement. They own his rights until the summer of 2014. The same amount of time they'd own Tallinder's rights if the contracts were to be swapped. This mindset that Hemsky has a longer shelflife than Tallinder because he's younger is misplaced. They're both two-season-and-goodbye assets.
The relevance is we are trading for a soon to be retiring defender in a few years.

Sure, we only own Hemsky's rights for 2 years, but at that point he is 31. There is no indication he would leave afterwards so if he plays well he will be useful for potentially 5 years longer than Tallinder.

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01-14-2013, 10:37 PM
  #246
AfroThunder396
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Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
No Hemsky but maybe it helps both teams...

To NJ- Sam Gagner (1 year, $3.2M, RFA) and Ryan Whitney (1 yr, $4M)

To Edmonton- Travis Zajac (1 year, $3.8M, UFA) and Marek Zidlicky (1 yr, $4M)

Salaries are a wash. Oilers give up younger player at each position (F, D) and are risking a bit more since both could walk in UFA. Zajac is the big center Oilers need on line 2. Zajac is the better center for sure when healthy but the Devils get a better #2/3 defenseman. The gap between Whitney and Zidlicky is bigger than the gap between Gagner and Zajac (same career points/game). Even with his bad year Whitney would have topped their blueline with points.

Devils don't really hurt centers. Had to play without Zajac last year and made finals so makes sense they could downgrade a little bit there and improve defensemen big-time.
This is atrocious and does not make New Jersey better at all.

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01-14-2013, 10:48 PM
  #247
Sergei Berezin
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Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
This is atrocious and does not make New Jersey better at all.
It's not atrocious, but it doesn't help NJ.

IF NJ had a true #1 centre under 30, I think you'd consider this move, but with Zajac currently being a core piece, moving him isn't possible, unless you're upgrading at the centre position.

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01-14-2013, 11:17 PM
  #248
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Toughness is different from not being injury prone.

E.g. Taylor Hall is one of the toughest players on the Oilers.

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01-14-2013, 11:33 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Fourthperiod had a rumor that Devils are interested in Hemsky.

That being said, if the Devils add Hemsky, it'll likely be a deal centering out Tallinder or Volchenkov as none of the other defenseman will likely be moved.

That being said, Oilers fans, how much more would the Devils have to add onto Tallinder or Volchenkov, in your opinion? The only other guys that might be moved (although less probable than Tallinder) would be Greene or Fayne and preferably they both stay.

Hemsky for Tallinder/Volchenkov + ??????
remember there is a salary cap...hemsky has a much higher number than the D-men. They probably need to balance out the cap hits where Deveils include another player and the Oilers include maybe one of their younger defencemen who is cheap or picks.


Last edited by spiny norman: 01-15-2013 at 12:39 AM. Reason: corrected [/QUOTE]
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01-15-2013, 12:01 AM
  #250
AfroThunder396
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Originally Posted by Sergei Berezin View Post
It's not atrocious, but it doesn't help NJ.

IF NJ had a true #1 centre under 30, I think you'd consider this move, but with Zajac currently being a core piece, moving him isn't possible, unless you're upgrading at the centre position.
It is atrocious.

Even if Edmonton fans don't want to call Hemsky injury prone, only the most stubborn of all homers would say Whitney isn't injury prone (averages 54 GP over the last four seasons). And, even if he was healthy, the difference between him and Zidlicky is negligible at best. Their career stats are pretty much identical (Whitney .56 PPG, Zidlicky .53 PPG). Even their contracts are identical in both term and salary. If you somehow managed to convince me that Whitney was the better player it would be by the slimmest of margins, so slim that you could not in good faith call it an "upgrade".

The only thing Whitney has is youth, which means nothing in an abbreviated season. And as I mentioned, both are impending UFA's so it's not as if this move would be for the Devil's future. They could just as easily let Zids walk in June and pick up Whitney for free, or just for ***** and giggles, sign both at the same time.

As for Zajac, he's clearly the best asset in the deal. Seven players currently in the league have both 25 goal and 65 seasons under their belt AND have been top-10 in Selke voting multiple times AND are under 30 years old. Can you name them?

Go ahead, I'll wait a moment while you think.

*Patrice Bergeron
*Ryan Kesler
*Mikko Koivu
*Anze Kopitar
*Mike Richards
*Jonathan Toews
*Travis Zajac

That's the company Zajac keeps, that's the value you must appraise him at. Call him a fluke, bring up injuries, say he's a product of his linemates, say whatever you want to discredit him (you'd be wrong on all accounts). Travis Zajac is one of the league's finest two-way centerman and you must value him the same way you value the other players I've listed above. Zajac will command $5.5-6.5 million on the open market and he deserves every penny of it.

Even if the Devils lost Zajac, Gagner would STILL be 3rd on our center depth chart behind Elias and Henrique. So yeah, that accomplishes nothing. We're just replacing Zajac with a generic dime-a-dozen 40-45 point forward (In before "but he's only 23, he can still get better!!!' Players don't suddenly figure it out when they enter their 6th season, he's a veteran now, you need to accept that Edmonton permanently stunted his development when they threw him into the fire as an 18 year old).

On top of ALL that, I'm not even going to attempt to understand the logic of why New Jersey, a team that just lost an All-Star forward to free agency and was top-10 defensively despite mediocre goaltending, is trading offense for defense. Basically New Jersey gives you a premier two-way center in exchange for a completely unspectacular and developmentally stagnant career underachiever. Which means we make our biggest weakness even weaker and gain nothing in return.

So yes, that proposal is, in fact, atrocious.

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