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Ryan O'Reilly Signs With Magnitogorsk (2-yr deal)

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01-15-2013, 01:03 AM
  #926
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Originally Posted by Hans Landaskog View Post
if McGinn puts up 30+ points, you should eat a worm.


(again)
Points, or goals? Given he's playing with Stazz, who tends to make his line-mates better, he may do just that (only just, in points that is).

Or are you saying 30+ points in a 48 game year?

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01-15-2013, 01:24 AM
  #927
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You realize that the "pro" part of Pro-athletes stands for professional, right? And that these professionals work in an industry with a relatively short time frame in which a player can cash out? Then why are you *****ing about greed when a player tries to maximize his earning potential while he sacrifices his body and mind for our entertainment?
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Please demonstrate that he signed in Russia because he didn't get the deal he wanted.



Please demonstrate that a one year deal, or a deal with a regular out clause is better than the deal he signed. Alternatively, explain why he would take a worse deal than one currently on the table.



Why is it a straw man? You're saying that he should leave his current contract that he's happy with. Therefore, I ask you why he should leave it.

Accepting a contract with another league is not a loophole. It's choosing one job offer over another. You think he took that contract to give him leverage with Colorado? I think he took the contract because he wanted $4M (rumored) per season and they were willing to give it to him. Neither of us have evidence.



Yes, there is a reason why most players in O'Reilly's situation don't have leverage. That reason is because they don't see other leagues (particularly the KHL, with whom the NHL's interleague agreement is particularly tenuous) as viable options, for various reasons. Ryan O'Reilly clearly has no such hang-up.



You can say it as many times as you like, but you still haven't established that a) he signed the contract in order to force the Avs into a better deal, or b) that what he's doing is inappropriate. As for naming other guys who have been in similar situations, who has been in this situation before?

The situation is: The player is locked out, and does not have a valid contract with the team that is locking him out. While locked out, he is offered a contract that he feels is acceptable by a team in another league. He accepts the offer. The lockout ends. His team in the formerly locked out league now wants him to play for them again, but doesn't want to give him the same deal that he currently has in the new league.

I can't think of another player who has been in that situation. I can, however, safely say that Ryan O'Reilly is a guy who has been in that situation that I would want on my team. Unfortunately, it's not clear whether that team values him as highly as Magnitogorsk does.
Both of you have literally made the worst arguments I've ever been a part of since I've joined this board, and I'm not saying that for hyperbole.

Say what you will for how much hes worth, and ive made it perfectly clear that i personally would have given him a 4x5 but it's ridiculously obvious he signed a two year deal in Russia that required it to be matched to force the Avs to give him what he wants after only one good season.

You keep talking as if its a situation where he's not within his rights. Of course he is. I backed the PA throughout the lockout because of the risks they take as players, and even O'Reilly throughout the same period for just signing a deal and waiting for the CBA to resolve what the team he really wants to sign with can do.

After all the rumors, and the days since the CBA was finally ratified, and the KHL deal that required a lot of money to be matched, to say this isn't purely greedy and selfish is ridiculously naive. Pure and simple. Make all the excuses you want. 21 year old players don't do anything resembling anything like this. He set things up to force the team to pay him more than Duchene on a short term deal, or give him a long term deal.

HE's 21 WITH ONE DECENT YEAR OFFENSIVELY YOU SCREWBALLS!!! Who the hell does he think he is??? An elite 1st overall superstar? He's a 2nd round two way player with offensive totals of 26, 26, and 55. Take a short term deal and EARN your long term deal if the team is getting cheap on you. Even Duchene has more of a reason to hold out for more than a two year $3.5 M deal, and he signed that almost instantly. I'm done with this for a day or so because some of you are looking at this without any sensible thinking just like O'Reilly, and its extemely frustrating.

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01-15-2013, 02:14 AM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
Don't worry mate, your not the only one. If there is ever one club's fans that shouldn't have to endure more grief, it's us
eh idk. we were quite spoiled for a long time.

Blues fans for instance have endured much more grief than us.
or Blue Jackets fans
or Sharks fans
or Sabres fans
ect. really quite a bit that have had to endure bad periods far longer than we have.


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Points, or goals? Given he's playing with Stazz, who tends to make his line-mates better
no he doesn't

______
agreed Foppa. Clearly.

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01-15-2013, 02:24 AM
  #929
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Lol people need to stop freaking out. It's been two days since the MOU was completed. It may take a while but he should be signed before the start of the season. People are all of sudden attacking his character because he hasn't signed yet when they know nothing about the situation. Just seems a little ridiculous.
The thing is though, if we haven't heard something is done by about Wednesday morning, then I'm thinking it is likely he won't start the season with the Av's. I doubt they'd play him Saturday if he's not here by Friday, and there is still a long plane flight from Russia, not to mention jet lag. And once he misses a game, then when does it end?

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01-15-2013, 02:37 AM
  #930
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I don't really like the idea of giving O'Reilly 5Y x $4M=20M (assuming that rumor was correct, which we don't know), but if I were Sherman, I think I might actually counter that request with 6Y x $4M=$24M. (That's assuming he won't take 3Y x 4M, which I'd actually prefer because of RFA, and less long term risk.)

That buys 2 of his UFA years, instead of just one, yet at the same price, and in about 3 years time, $4M will seem more like 3M or 3.5M seems now, and the deal could be a steal for a few years, assuming O'Reilly continues to progress like he has shown he appears capable of.

O'Reilly gets most of what he's hoping for now, plus even a little extra security, but in return he has to give up a little earnings potential in those later years.

Unless ROR regresses, the contract will continue to become easier to trade as time goes on, assuming the league revenues continue growing. It doesn't necessarily become a huge internal issue, I don't think, because if other players and agents point to it, you can argue they can start comparing to that contract if and when they make the league at 18, lead the league in a major category by 21, and be considered a serious captain candidate. If someone else does accomplish those things, they may be worth considering making another similar type deal anyway.

If anybody has earned a little goodwill and trust that he'll likely earn this contract, it seems like O'Reilly would be that guy. Now, I don't like this KHL stunt one bit either, but I also think he's the kind of guy who wouldn't have actually done it if he wasn't actually prepared to stay there and play with his brother for 2 years if he's not offered what he believes he is worth. In other words, it's a bit of a negotiating ploy, but one taken only after serious thought and consideration of his options. Remember too, he has not already banked millions like all of the other top guys have, so O'Reilly has to look out for his future, and being close friends with Hishon, he's aware how he too can be 1 hit from it possibly being all over.

I think another one of the reasons he is pushing this so hard now is O'Reilly's goal is probably to eventually establish himself as a top-6 center. I think he suspects that his opportunities to display that may be lacking here not only for the short term, but also that it appears likely going forwared he will often get the lesser offensive linemates, and be used in more defensive situations. I'll bet he suspected Landeskog might not stay on his line. So if he signs a reasonable short term deal, it will continue being harder for him to put up the numbers to earn the role and contract he wants the next time around, and he may then end up type-cast as a 3rd rounder for his career. I don't think his goal is to stay an elite 3rd liner forever.

But if you offer him the financial security, I think he's the kind of guy to continue to bust his ass doing whatever role you ask of him, and then in a few more years, you can make the call whether you want him in that higher role or trade him to someone who has a greater need for him in that position.

Regardless, I'm worrying that the Av's won't believe he'll want to stay there, and will end up trying to call his (or agent's) bluff, and I'm worried that Ryan indeed will stay there, and become even more unhappy with the Av's, feeling they are not respecting him.

If I'm Sherman, I'm also already busy calling all possible trade partners and figuring out if any of them would meet his salary demands. If yes, then I have to decide if I'd rather match the deal or would I rather have what he'd bring in a trade. If no, then I'm surely making sure that Ryan knows that no other NHL team is willing to pay him that either, so he's definitely setting himself up for an extended stay in Russia.

If we were to get Yandle, even if we add some, I'd be thrilled. But I've got the feeling we won't be that fortunate.

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01-15-2013, 02:52 AM
  #931
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On the other side, I also don't quite get O'Reilly's seeming unappreciation for the opportunity the Av's have already provided him. It's possible that on another team he might not have gotten a chance to play quite so young, nor the chance to get top ice-time and play with a lottery pick winger. As such he might be even farther from his goals if it weren't for the opportunities the Av's gave him right out of the gate. So it is a little surprising he's not willing to bend a bit more for the team that first took a chance on him, and believed in him enough to give him so much responsibility at such a young age.

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01-15-2013, 04:20 AM
  #932
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I cannot believe that O´Reilly will not come back. Yes, I had a feeling it could be possible when I was doing an interview with him. But there was still some hope in my mind. And now? It looks like he is lost. At least for two years. Or forever. My opinion is that the KHL team has simply overpaid him. Chambers wrote a rumor that O´Reilly would like to have more than 5 mil. per season. Why would he want so much? Because I would not be surprised if he gets 5 mil. for this and for the next season. KHL is not a bussines, it is about a sponsorship, as said me Ville Nieminen. It is not about profits. It is about rich owners who do not care about money and they are very often connected with the mafia. I can see this situation here in Slovakia. A long story... Back to O´Reilly. There should be a clause in his contract that he could back to the Avs if they would offer him bettter contract. So I think that there is a problem on 99%. Avs cannot overpaid crazy Russians. Sorry. Also O´Reilly knew why he accepted it...

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01-15-2013, 05:03 AM
  #933
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Both of you have literally made the worst arguments I've ever been a part of since I've joined this board, and I'm not saying that for hyperbole.

Say what you will for how much hes worth, and ive made it perfectly clear that i personally would have given him a 4x5 but it's ridiculously obvious he signed a two year deal in Russia that required it to be matched to force the Avs to give him what he wants after only one good season.

You keep talking as if its a situation where he's not within his rights. Of course he is. I backed the PA throughout the lockout because of the risks they take as players, and even O'Reilly throughout the same period for just signing a deal and waiting for the CBA to resolve what the team he really wants to sign with can do.

After all the rumors, and the days since the CBA was finally ratified, and the KHL deal that required a lot of money to be matched, to say this isn't purely greedy and selfish is ridiculously naive. Pure and simple. Make all the excuses you want. 21 year old players don't do anything resembling anything like this. He set things up to force the team to pay him more than Duchene on a short term deal, or give him a long term deal.

HE's 21 WITH ONE DECENT YEAR OFFENSIVELY YOU SCREWBALLS!!! Who the hell does he think he is??? An elite 1st overall superstar? He's a 2nd round two way player with offensive totals of 26, 26, and 55. Take a short term deal and EARN your long term deal if the team is getting cheap on you. Even Duchene has more of a reason to hold out for more than a two year $3.5 M deal, and he signed that almost instantly. I'm done with this for a day or so because some of you are looking at this without any sensible thinking just like O'Reilly, and its extemely frustrating.
You're the one being naive here... someone could ask Who the hell do you think you are, to tell him how much money he should make??

Its a business since he signed his first pro contract... doesnt matter that he is just 21, its a business and you're just pissed because this time around a RFA has the leverage over your loved team.

In the first three years of his carrer he made less than 3M while Duchene made 9-10M, and O'Reilly played a bigger role than what he was paid for. So i dont blame him for trying to sign the very most lucrative deal he can right now.

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01-15-2013, 07:10 AM
  #934
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Can't pay your best overall player 4 mill/year?

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01-15-2013, 07:29 AM
  #935
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Can't pay your best overall player 4 mill/year?
Best overall player

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01-15-2013, 07:32 AM
  #936
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If there is ever one club's fans that shouldn't have to endure more grief, it's us,
This was actuelly posted. In the Avs board.

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01-15-2013, 07:38 AM
  #937
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Can't pay your best overall player 4 mill/year?
Just because he led the team in points last year does not make him the best player. In fact, he's a ways back being behind Landeskog, Duchene, Stastny, Johnson, and Varlamov. No, ROR is not worth 4M at this point in time. Duchene is more proven and easily a much better player, ROR should not be making as much as him, let alone more.

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01-15-2013, 08:02 AM
  #938
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Just because he led the team in points last year does not make him the best player. In fact, he's a ways back being behind Landeskog, Duchene, Stastny, Johnson, and Varlamov. No, ROR is not worth 4M at this point in time. Duchene is more proven and easily a much better player, ROR should not be making as much as him, let alone more.
While I agree with this, I find it funny that everybody else does. Last year everybody was talking about how ROR was above and beyond our best player. He does everything right and is the avs best player. I did not agree at all, and put the above mentioned players ahead of hiim yet everybody razzed me for it. Now that Radar is showing greed the avs fan base have turned against him and think all the other guys are much better.

Just think of the trade offers other members posted last year. The entire avs board listed radar as untouchable. Now apparently he isn't even that good and we should ship him while his value is high. Come on guys

I for one would love to have this guy back. Not because he is our best player, but because he fills his roll as a third line centre just like he has in the past. Every winning team in this league has a third line centre that can score. That's where I saw Radar in the past, and where I see him in the future. Sure he can eventually be a second line centre, but when he is a teams 3C, is when a team is good enough to win a stanley cup.

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01-15-2013, 08:07 AM
  #939
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While I agree with this, I find it funny that everybody else does. Last year everybody was talking about how ROR was above and beyond our best player. He does everything right and is the avs best player. I did not agree at all, and put the above mentioned players ahead of hiim yet everybody razzed me for it. Now that Radar is showing greed the avs fan base have turned against him and think all the other guys are much better.

Just think of the trade offers other members posted last year. The entire avs board listed radar as untouchable. Now apparently he isn't even that good and we should ship him while his value is high. Come on guys

I for one would love to have this guy back. Not because he is our best player, but because he fills his roll as a third line centre just like he has in the past. Every winning team in this league has a third line centre that can score. That's where I saw Radar in the past, and where I see him in the future. Sure he can eventually be a second line centre, but when he is a teams 3C, is when a team is good enough to win a stanley cup.
I think that's part of the problem, though. He doesn't want to be a 3C, he wants to be a 2C or even a 1C. Kinda sounds like he's gotten too big for his Avalanche britches.

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01-15-2013, 08:30 AM
  #940
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I think that's part of the problem, though. He doesn't want to be a 3C, he wants to be a 2C or even a 1C. Kinda sounds like he's gotten too big for his Avalanche britches.
Then he is being ridiculous. Jordan Staal didn't complain much while being one of the best players on the pens cup run. Jarret Stoll last year. Dave Bolland, David Krejci and so on.

If Radar thinks he's going to be a 1C on an NHL team, it's obviously because he just want's to be, and not to help a team win a stanley cup.

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01-15-2013, 08:32 AM
  #941
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Wow, I never thought It would go this far. If he really wants to stay in Russia, let him stay and trade his rights to a team, who's gonna offer him enough to play.

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01-15-2013, 08:33 AM
  #942
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Wow, I never thought It would go this far. If he really wants to stay in Russia, let him stay and trade his rights to a team, who's gonna offer him enough to play.
I really believe that an unsigned O'Reilly is not going to fetch much of anything.

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01-15-2013, 08:35 AM
  #943
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Both of you have literally made the worst arguments I've ever been a part of since I've joined this board, and I'm not saying that for hyperbole.

Say what you will for how much hes worth, and ive made it perfectly clear that i personally would have given him a 4x5 but it's ridiculously obvious he signed a two year deal in Russia that required it to be matched to force the Avs to give him what he wants after only one good season.

You keep talking as if its a situation where he's not within his rights. Of course he is. I backed the PA throughout the lockout because of the risks they take as players, and even O'Reilly throughout the same period for just signing a deal and waiting for the CBA to resolve what the team he really wants to sign with can do.

After all the rumors, and the days since the CBA was finally ratified, and the KHL deal that required a lot of money to be matched, to say this isn't purely greedy and selfish is ridiculously naive. Pure and simple. Make all the excuses you want. 21 year old players don't do anything resembling anything like this. He set things up to force the team to pay him more than Duchene on a short term deal, or give him a long term deal.

HE's 21 WITH ONE DECENT YEAR OFFENSIVELY YOU SCREWBALLS!!! Who the hell does he think he is??? An elite 1st overall superstar? He's a 2nd round two way player with offensive totals of 26, 26, and 55. Take a short term deal and EARN your long term deal if the team is getting cheap on you. Even Duchene has more of a reason to hold out for more than a two year $3.5 M deal, and he signed that almost instantly. I'm done with this for a day or so because some of you are looking at this without any sensible thinking just like O'Reilly, and its extemely frustrating.
The point isn't that he's not being greedy, the point is he's a professional, in a career with a short time in which to cash out, so him trying to get what he's worth during that short time is exactly what you should expect from a professional. Especially since neither he nor we know if he'll even still be able to play at the end of a short term deal.

You're the one who seems to think that athletes shouldn't act like every other profession for some reason, seems kinda a silly for you to then turn around and say that we're not thinking sensibly.

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01-15-2013, 08:45 AM
  #944
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I love ROR's game, just like we all do.

But I don't like the idea of the team not knowing where we stand roster-wise. Games start in less than a week, and in a shortened season those early games are more critical than usual. We can't afford to get off to a slow start because of an unsettled roster, due to a holdout.

Sign him and get him playing, or sign him and trade him. Just get the damn roster set.

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01-15-2013, 08:47 AM
  #945
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I don't understand why someones here consider O'Reilly as an offensive forward. Scoring points is totally trivial for him - he just happens to do a bit of that too. He should be paid first and foremost for his leadership, secondary for attitude, third for takeaway skills, fourth for overall defensive plays and after that for some other things.

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01-15-2013, 08:48 AM
  #946
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I really believe that an unsigned O'Reilly is not going to fetch much of anything.
Being that he is young, a RFA for 4 years, has the skill set he does, and being Canadian (won't stay in KHL, if he was Russian it would kill his value) all signal that if he is traded it will be for a high ransom.

I think the reason this is taking so long is for 2 reasons: The first is obvious, the Avs don't want to give him the contract he wants and ROR is playing hard ball. The second is that the Avs don't really want to trade him if they can avoid it. They know that he will be a near perfect 2nd line center in a couple of years, and if you are going to have to give up a player like that you want to be absolutely sure it is the right decision. The more time passes, the more I think we were the team that backed out with Phoenix. If ROR is traded I think he will go to one of 3 teams Winnipeg, Phoenix, or Florida.

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01-15-2013, 08:55 AM
  #947
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Being that he is young, a RFA for 4 years, has the skill set he does, and being Canadian (won't stay in KHL, if he was Russian it would kill his value) all signal that if he is traded it will be for a high ransom.

I think the reason this is taking so long is for 2 reasons: The first is obvious, the Avs don't want to give him the contract he wants and ROR is playing hard ball. The second is that the Avs don't really want to trade him if they can avoid it. They know that he will be a near perfect 2nd line center in a couple of years, and if you are going to have to give up a player like that you want to be absolutely sure it is the right decision. The more time passes, the more I think we were the team that backed out with Phoenix. If ROR is traded I think he will go to one of 3 teams Winnipeg, Phoenix, or Florida.
Winnipeg, Phoenix or Florida? Who could we get from those teams for O'Reilly? We need defense more IMO. #2 defenseman would be sweet, but we have too many defensemen already.

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01-15-2013, 08:58 AM
  #948
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Winnipeg, Phoenix or Florida? Who could we get from those teams for O'Reilly? We need defense more IMO. #2 defenseman would be sweet, but we have too many defensemen already.
Winnipeg = ?
Phoenix = Yandle
Florida = Kulikov

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01-15-2013, 08:59 AM
  #949
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While I don't like O'reilly's tactics, he was arguably our best player last season, and certainly was our best center. If he wants 4mil x 5 years as rumored they should just hurry up and sign him.

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01-15-2013, 09:02 AM
  #950
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Winnipeg = ?
Phoenix = Yandle
Florida = Kulikov
Rumors were that we were interested in Little from Winnipeg...potentially something like O'Reilly and something else for Enstrom/Bogosian and Little? I realize that the "something else" would most likely be something like a Barrie or Elliott.

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