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Draft day: Couturier to MTL for Seth Jones

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Old
01-14-2013, 06:05 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
If you look back at the post I quoted you would notice that he was touting Couturier as some impressive 13G scoring rookie 4th liner. Do I understand that he was 18-19 and obviously has higher upside than a 4th liner? Obviously. Am I instantly convinced he has PPG/Selke winning upside as many Flyer fans suggest on this board? Definately not.

In reality, Couturier is still very much unproven (offensively) and certainly hasn't shown enough to justify trading a potential franchise defenseman who will likely be drafted top 2 in this upcoming draft.

There was a reason why Couturier dropped to 8th overall in the 2011 Entry Draft and there really isn't any reason to assume he would catapult to the top 2-3 in the 2013 Entry Draft.
First of all, the reason couturier dropped to 8th overall is because of the illness he contracted that caused scouts to be wary of his development at that given time, even though he matched his point total from the year before in 10 less games. He seems to be proving them wrong, no? I mean, the kid came in and made one of the most potent offensive teams in the league an played a big role. Something has to be said about that.

And while I agree with your sentiment that Jones may have franchise potential, I disagree with your justification, because you're claiming that you wouldn't trade jones for potential (couturier) while jones has yet to play a single game at the pro level. Couturier did what he did as an 18-19 year old, and though jones is a fantastic prospect, I feel like multiple people on this board are selling couturier short because they're simply looking at his numbers and claiming that he's "overrated" and that flyers fans are just being homers. But what he brought last year as a teenager goes beyond simply numbers. He wasn't playing the role of a player that needed to be relied upon to produce offense every night, because we didnt need him to be, but the offensive skill is still there. He was a scorer in juniors, and in fact had the highest PPG percentage of any player in the draft in that year. It's absolutely absurd to push the fact that he scored 13g as a 4th liner on one of the best offensive teams in the league as a bad thing, and to use that as some kind of indication of what his future is, especially while that player is likely to be given the 2nd line C slot on his team, and forcing Danny Briere and Braydon Schenn into wing positions, specifically because of the things he showed last season. Couturier has the potential to be a franchise player, it just so happens that he's stuck behind Claude Giroux.

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01-14-2013, 06:37 PM
  #77
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Flyers should try Couturier on D before making this trade IMO.

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01-14-2013, 06:49 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
I love seth jones, but I'm not convinced he'll be a #1
He certainly has the potential, but its hardly a sure thing.
Lol yea people are ridiculous. There's no way you can say such and such is a number one d or goalie. Doesn't work that way like it CAN with fwds

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01-14-2013, 06:51 PM
  #79
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Lol yea people are ridiculous. There's no way you can say such and such is a number one d or goalie. Doesn't work that way like it CAN with fwds
I agree, but I do think Seth jones will be a #1. Just my gut. I actually would trade Couturier for him, I just don't think many people know just how good Couts is. He's claimed to be so overrated on this board that he's become extremely underrated.

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01-14-2013, 07:59 PM
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As a Habs fan, if we draft Jones I wouldn't even consider this.

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01-14-2013, 08:07 PM
  #81
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Lets play the situation like this, the leafs are up 3rd overall, with seth jones on the table..

flyers offer up couturier and there 1st for the leafs first and mike komisarek...

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01-14-2013, 08:11 PM
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First I was like that would be a steller idea! Wow!!

Then I was like wow they let go of JVR I remember now..

And now I'm like I would love to see it happen but I don't think it will

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01-14-2013, 08:29 PM
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Couturier oozes potential and any team would love to have him but any Flyers fan that wouldn t trade him for Seth Jones is crazy. Jones is a franchise defenceman.

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01-14-2013, 08:48 PM
  #84
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I gotta agree with the comparisons of Couts to J.Staal both because of talent, playing style and team position. He is stuck behind Giroux and Schenn long term. Laughton might be a solid option for 3rd line two way centre, Briere is there. Nick Cousins and Marcel Noebels might be NHL calibre centres some day. Centres is something the Flyers have to spare. So I'd take a top tier D prospect for Couts.

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01-14-2013, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flukeshot View Post
I gotta agree with the comparisons of Couts to J.Staal both because of talent, playing style and team position. He is stuck behind Giroux and Schenn long term. Laughton might be a solid option for 3rd line two way centre, Briere is there. Nick Cousins and Marcel Noebels might be NHL calibre centres some day. Centres is something the Flyers have to spare. So I'd take a top tier D prospect for Couts.
Schenn could always move to wing to accommodate Couturier. He likely will be starting at wing this year anyway. I don't see that being a problem at all.

As for Seth Jones for Couturier, a lot can change between now and the draft. His stock may fall like Couturier's did, who knows.

Moreover, Couturier will be playing his 2nd, albeit shortened NHL season, and his value could change significantly for better or worse by the draft. For a team like the Flyers, with the way they develop defenseman I'd be less inclined then other flyers fans to trade Couturier for a prospect. I know Seth Jones is highly coveted but I think the Flyers brass would pass on that trade.

Call me a homer and perhaps I am, I just think they would move other assets for him instead before they trade him for a prospect, as great as he may become. If we talking an established player than they would be interested no doubt.

Also I could see why Montreal wouldnt make that trade either. Doesn't make sense currently for either team, and as we get closer to the draft it could make even less sense.

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01-15-2013, 05:18 AM
  #86
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If the Flyers tank this year, which is a very real possibility with Bryz in net and injuries, and get the 2nd overall pick outright, I probably would lean on taking Drouin, Barkov or Lindholm, maybe even Monahan. The reason being is that great forwards almost always go in the top 10 to 15 picks, unless it is a crazy deep draft like 2003, while great defensemen can be had anywhere. Chara 3rd round, Keith 2nd rd, Weber 2nd rd. then you have Letang 3rd rd, Yandle 4th rd, Enstrom 8th rd, Elder 3rd rd. Girardi, Boyle, and Giodano undrafted free agents. To get a player of Couturier's talent, you have to stink. To get a franchise defensemen, you just have to be lucky.

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01-15-2013, 06:07 AM
  #87
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Jones>>Couturier

Flyers would need to add big time

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01-15-2013, 06:27 AM
  #88
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I doubt Montreal finishes in that position but if they do they certainly aren't going to trade a guy who possibly could be a #1 D for a #2-3 center.

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01-15-2013, 07:01 AM
  #89
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If you're talking 2nd, there's a chance that he'll be there... but I think Philly needs to add

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01-15-2013, 08:13 AM
  #90
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As a Habs fan I have a soft spot in my heart for French Canadians and I have always thought highly of Couturier. However, what little I have seen of Seth jones (his poise, maturity, intelligence and ability) is making me think I would keep him. Jones, to me looks like the best D prospect in a very long time. He absolutely stood out in the WJC.

I'm keeping Jones.

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01-15-2013, 08:19 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
If the Flyers tank this year, which is a very real possibility with Bryz in net and injuries, and get the 2nd overall pick outright, I probably would lean on taking Drouin, Barkov or Lindholm, maybe even Monahan. The reason being is that great forwards almost always go in the top 10 to 15 picks, unless it is a crazy deep draft like 2003, while great defensemen can be had anywhere. Chara 3rd round, Keith 2nd rd, Weber 2nd rd. then you have Letang 3rd rd, Yandle 4th rd, Enstrom 8th rd, Elder 3rd rd. Girardi, Boyle, and Giodano undrafted free agents. To get a player of Couturier's talent, you have to stink. To get a franchise defensemen, you just have to be lucky.
Ummmm,so what you are saying is that the scouts know absolutely nothing when it comes to d men. What about the recent examples of first round d men becoming studs (doughty, headman, karlsson, Ek-Lars, gardener) and what about examples of star forwards drafted late (daysyuk, zetterberg)

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01-15-2013, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
If the Flyers tank this year, which is a very real possibility with Bryz in net and injuries, and get the 2nd overall pick outright, I probably would lean on taking Drouin, Barkov or Lindholm, maybe even Monahan. The reason being is that great forwards almost always go in the top 10 to 15 picks, unless it is a crazy deep draft like 2003, while great defensemen can be had anywhere. Chara 3rd round, Keith 2nd rd, Weber 2nd rd. then you have Letang 3rd rd, Yandle 4th rd, Enstrom 8th rd, Elder 3rd rd. Girardi, Boyle, and Giodano undrafted free agents. To get a player of Couturier's talent, you have to stink. To get a franchise defensemen, you just have to be lucky.
I dont think its possible for a team with as much talent as the flyers to tank... That's kind of unrealistic. Possible, but highly unlikely. Now, making the playoffs in a shortened season is a crap shoot, alot of teams everyone expects to make it might not, but I'm not holding my breath for the 2nd overall pick.

But if by some crazy chance we ended up with it, Seth jones is the only player that I REALLY want. I like McKinnon and Drouin, but we need a kid that can be a franchise defenseman and I think we'd have to take jones.

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01-15-2013, 08:22 AM
  #93
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I wish people saying JONES>>>>>COUTURIER would give some justification as to why they have all those greater than signs.

I love Couts and what he has brought, but Seth Jones would obviously fill the 2nd most pressing need the Flyers have this year. I'll admit, seeing a Jones-Coburn pairing would make me pretty happy

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01-15-2013, 08:23 AM
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I doubt anyone in a position to draft Jones (which probably won't be the 3rd spot, by the way) does this deal. It's not a knock against Couts.

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01-15-2013, 08:24 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by WildcatMapleLeafs28 View Post
Couturier oozes potential and any team would love to have him but any Flyers fan that wouldn t trade him for Seth Jones is crazy. Jones is a franchise defenceman.
No he's not. He's not even in the NHL yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fst6 View Post
Jones>>Couturier

Flyers would need to add big time
significantly? Lol!


The Flyers wouldn't include Couts in a deal for Weber, so wth would they trade him for an unproven prospect?

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01-15-2013, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
I wish people saying JONES>>>>>COUTURIER would give some justification as to why they have all those greater than signs.

I love Couts and what he has brought, but Seth Jones would obviously fill the 2nd most pressing need the Flyers have this year. I'll admit, seeing a Jones-Coburn pairing would make me pretty happy
Until the Flyers trash his development. I'd rather the Flyers develop Fs and trade them for proven D-Men rather than draft D-Men.

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01-15-2013, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I doubt Montreal finishes in that position but if they do they certainly aren't going to trade a guy who possibly could be a #1 D for a #2-3 center.
Gots to be fair, if Jones is a possible #1 D (which he certainly is) then can't discount Couts as a possible #1 C...I doubt he would have been ranked so highly in his draft year if he didn't have #1 C upside.

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01-15-2013, 08:31 AM
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No he's not. He's not even in the NHL yet.



significantly? Lol!


The Flyers wouldn't include Couts in a deal for Weber, so wth would they trade him for an unproven prospect?
I mean.. You would be getting a kid with franchise #1 defenseman potential, and lets be honest if you've seen the kid, you know his chances of reaching that potential are pretty high, on an ELC who's 9 years younger than Shea Weber. Yeah sea weber is a huge addition to make, but couturier is 20 years old, and this team has a history of trading young blue chip prospects for older players developed elsewhere. Perhaps homer simply wanted his group to grow together, and trading one young kid with a ton of potential for another maybe makes more sense for the flyers and our current juncture.

Not to mention that trading an ELC for Shea Webers contract would have greatly hinder us and our cap situation from doing essentially anything else. Say we traded Couts for jones, with Timonens contract coming off the books this year, that still gives you room to make a move for a guy like Corey perry in FA... Imagine this

Perry-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Briere-Schenn
Simmonds-Laughton-Read
Rinaldo-Talbot-Fedotenko

Coburn-Jones
Meszaros-Schenn
Grossmann-Guatafsson


Last edited by orange is better: 01-15-2013 at 08:39 AM.
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01-15-2013, 08:36 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Let's say on draft day 2013 MTL is holding the 3rd overall spot, and they are coveting a big, 2-way center to compliment Galchenyuk. Mackinnon and Barkov go 1-2, and MTL feels there is no room for both Jones and Subban on their d. They'd like the 2-way presence Couturier brings, amongst other intangibles. I know that the value is there, but does either side make this trade?
No room for Jones and Subban? I know your statement is hypothetical, but that kind of reasoning is ridiculous. Did STL think MacInnis and Pronger had no business being together in the same squad?

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01-15-2013, 08:48 AM
  #100
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Couturier is overrated by some in my books. He's a good third line center and has a bit of physicality about him but I think Montreal would much rather keep Seth Jones if they were to draft him.

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