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Old
01-14-2013, 06:27 PM
  #226
19NYSports91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveat View Post
I still don't feel like Craposo should play with JT. He's got skills, but he is so streaky...I think Crapmenteau complimented JT a lot more than KO does. I think Bailey would make an awesome winger on JT's line.
If only he was a right-handed shot....

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01-14-2013, 06:33 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Garth Wang Clan View Post
Geez, do people really think this team is that bad? We have no idea how this team has developed over this half of the year. Let's watch the first few games, then decide if this team warrants a criticism.
yeah seriously....you would think we are 0-12 with this criticism.

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01-14-2013, 07:24 PM
  #228
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The problem is that this team is worse than they were last year, at least on paper.

Where is our secondary scoring coming from? Grabner-Nielsen-Boyes? If that line produces like a 3rd line we are basically screwed. Ullstrom-Cizikas-McDonald is a joke. Everyone complains about "giving" spots to guys like Nino and Strome and Nelson, meanwhile we are icing a 3rd line with virtually zero upside(at least this year). I like Ullstrom, and think he could be a player, however I wanted to see him as the young guy on an established line(playing LW to Nielsen-Grabner, or something like that)... not necessarily the guy who will have to carry his own line. Essentially that's what he'll have to do. That line looks like an NHL 4th line on paper.

So offensively, we have the potential of having one really good 1st line, especially if Okposo gels with JT and MM, but after that it's pretty much a 3rd line and two 4th lines. That's the way I see it, at least. Maybe(hopefully) I'll be proven wrong.

That leaves the defense... where do I even begin? I agree that Hamonic should be on the 1st pairing, Streit should be on the 2nd and Carkner on the 3rd. Unfortunately after that is where it starts to get ugly. Now you have MacDonald, who is probably a #4 at this point in his career getting bumped up to the top-pairing with Hamonic. You have Martinek, who didn't have a job a few days ago, stepping right into a 2nd pairing role. You also have (what looks to be)Landry, a guy who is a mediocre AHL defenseman at best rounding out the rest of the top-6 on the 3rd pairing.

As it stands right now...AT BEST...our blueline consists of a #2(TH), a #3(MS), a #4(AM), a #6(MC), a #6/7(RM) and a #8/9(JL). That is being generous to Hammer and Streit at this point, who I see more as a 3 and 4, respectively. I suppose when healthy and on his game, Martinek could be a 4 or 5, but how long will that last? IMO our only hope of having a decent blue-line is if Hamonic solidifies himself as a legitimate top-pairing defender; Streit returns to pre-injury form where he was arguably a #2; A-Mac elevating his game further(not sure how much better he could get unless he gets more involved offensively); Martinek staying healthy all year long and Donovan eventually replacing Landry who I have zero confidence in. All of this, as well as Visnovsky coming over and playing like he actually gives a damn.

Goaltending should be solid, but it was solid last year as far as Nabokov goes. If he elevates his game further I suppose he could steal us a few more wins, but at this point in his career is it fair to expect that?

What's scary is I'm usually pretty optimistic when it comes to this team. At least I have been at the start of the past few years. This year, it almost appears as if 1)they want one more top-pick before they finally decide to end this rebuild, and 2) they want to set Cappy up to fail so they can bring in a new/established Head Coach when they attempt to make a run.

Otherwise I can't see a reason why a team in desperate need of secondary scoring would leave the 3rd leading goal scorer in the AHL out of training camp...

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01-14-2013, 08:12 PM
  #229
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I just feel like, with the moves we've made, Wang is basically telling the team and the fans that this team is not going to try to be serious until at least the move to Brooklyn. I find that insulting.

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01-14-2013, 10:19 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Yitz View Post
I just feel like, with the moves we've made, Wang is basically telling the team and the fans that this team is not going to try to be serious until at least the move to Brooklyn. I find that insulting.
I agree this lineup is dreadful. I can't believe the lineup that will be hitting the ice to start this season.

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01-14-2013, 10:29 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garth Wang Clan View Post
Geez, do people really think this team is that bad?
Yes.

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Old
01-15-2013, 12:08 AM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garth Wang Clan View Post
Geez, do people really think this team is that bad? We have no idea how this team has developed over this half of the year. Let's watch the first few games, then decide if this team warrants a criticism.
Look at the defense. They start with one rookie. Martinek gets injured...2 Rookies. Carkner sits a couple... 3 Rookies.

Welcome Seth Jones.

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01-15-2013, 12:10 AM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garth Wang Clan View Post
Geez, do people really think this team is that bad? We have no idea how this team has developed over this half of the year. Let's watch the first few games, then decide if this team warrants a criticism.
I'm with you on this one. I'm just glad hockey is back. Whether we end up with another top five pick or not, the team is defintely coming around. Our top prospects are impressing and we made a nice addition through Carkner; Nielsen was resigned. Both Bailey and Okposo are getting to that age now where it is going to be put up or shut up and both are coming in hot from the end of last season. I watched JT's interview and you can see the maturity beyond his years. Even Streit looks good, we really need to get him resigned! Anyway, I'm as optimistic as anyone but if we don't have a succesful year, I won't panic. The guys are always talking about unity and chemistry and I truly believe that this a good group of guys, they just need some more NHL bodies. Hopefully that will come this year through the rapid and pleasant development of our prospects.

By the way, I miss Matt Moulson Ale

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01-15-2013, 04:44 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
This team is really shaping up to look God Awful. Don't understand Strome not getting an opportunity(apparently he's been stuck with Reasoner/Boulton the whole time so far), and I see a 0% chance of him sticking as a 4th liner(it would be absolutely pointless to use him in that role). This means Nielsen will probably be our 2nd line center again(haven't we tried this experiment before?), and a guy like Cizikas will probably be our 3rd line center(hooray!).

Aside from the obviously bad(on paper, at least) defense, this team looks like it is going to struggle to score goals... maybe even worse than they struggled last year.

God... help me.
You "might" be interpreting this wrong. Ask yourself, "why" cappy has put Strome on a Reasoner Boulton line.

To me...It's NOT to see what Strome can do, but what Reasoner and Boulton can do. Cappy wants to see if a little talent can improve their game, not Strome's. They know that if Strome is put on a line with JT/Okposo/Bailey/Nielsen (anyone with some talent) things will happen. Now, put talent where no/very little talent can be expected...well, it just tells them if they can play a higher level, but haven't due to other reasons. Am I making sense? It kinda also gives them an idea of other prospects. Like...was Nino's bad production due to too less minutes, the people on his line or something else. It would also tell them if the player is capable of elevating the skills of others. Not every talented player can do that.

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01-15-2013, 04:57 AM
  #235
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Lets just see how the first few games go. We don't know how things will translate and can only speculate. I honestly do not think Landry is going to be that bad. In fact, I don't expect him to be any worse than Reese, though, for him, I hope he gets a 20 point half season this year and prove everyone wrong. It's a long road for him and in his shoes...playing sub-par hockey, thinking the dream will never happen....watch what motivation does to a person.

Also...hockey is a business and when one day that you become a billionaire...you do a lot of things...because you CAN. As far as why Wang hasn't made big moves or sped up development etc..basically real hockey moves (management/players) is because (IMO) he is super pissed at Nassau County. I mentioned this in another thread..He's doing it to NOT give the county anything....leave with a losing team and get revenge with success in Brooklyn. In the process, the low revenue equates to even lower tax dollars for the county. He is gonna hit them where it hurts the most...the wallet. Why? Because he can...

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01-15-2013, 08:39 AM
  #236
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We lost PA Parenteau and his 67 points. Who is replacing that? You would need two secondary scorers to step up in a huge way to replace those numbers on top of their own. I just don't see where we are replacing those 67 points and on top of that even with those 67 points we werent close to playoffs so we would need even more on top of that. I just wish Wang would actually spend some money on this team. We can keep developing from within, but we will NEVER make that next step without signing established veterans. I really hope a move to Brooklyn helps speed things up.

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01-15-2013, 09:35 AM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveat View Post
You "might" be interpreting this wrong. Ask yourself, "why" cappy has put Strome on a Reasoner Boulton line.

To me...It's NOT to see what Strome can do, but what Reasoner and Boulton can do. Cappy wants to see if a little talent can improve their game, not Strome's. They know that if Strome is put on a line with JT/Okposo/Bailey/Nielsen (anyone with some talent) things will happen. Now, put talent where no/very little talent can be expected...well, it just tells them if they can play a higher level, but haven't due to other reasons. Am I making sense? It kinda also gives them an idea of other prospects. Like...was Nino's bad production due to too less minutes, the people on his line or something else. It would also tell them if the player is capable of elevating the skills of others. Not every talented player can do that.
I just don't see how realistic that is. How do you expect any prospect to come into a 5-day camp and elevate the play of guys like Reasoner/Boulton/Martin? I think the right move would have been giving Strome reps on that Cizikas-line between Ullstrom and McDonald. Evaluate when that line looks more dangerous/has more chemistry. What they are doing with Strome is burying him... plain and simple. It's like they are nervous that if they play him on a legitimate line he might impress and they'd be forced to keep him around. IMO they don't want to give him that chance.

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01-15-2013, 09:59 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Islanders1932 View Post
We lost PA Parenteau and his 67 points. Who is replacing that? You would need two secondary scorers to step up in a huge way to replace those numbers on top of their own. I just don't see where we are replacing those 67 points and on top of that even with those 67 points we werent close to playoffs so we would need even more on top of that. I just wish Wang would actually spend some money on this team. We can keep developing from within, but we will NEVER make that next step without signing established veterans. I really hope a move to Brooklyn helps speed things up.
We don't need to replace 67 points. Whomever plays with Tavares will get those points. Even Byron Ritchie and Joel Vermin were on fire. Parenteau's "missing points" is something we've made up. Truth is, Okposo was scoring at the same rate (actually better than Parenteau) while he was on JT's line last year (from mid Dec to Feb as I recall)

I'm not worried about Parenteau because we know our top line will be great. The other THREE lines though, that's what will make/break this season. Which Grabner shows up? Can Boyes play on another line?

Most importantly, the defense. Yikes.

And then, goaltending. Nabokov must be spectacular and that's a big ask when you line-up those dmen in front of him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Look at the defense. They start with one rookie. Martinek gets injured...2 Rookies. Carkner sits a couple... 3 Rookies.

Welcome Seth Jones.
YUP. Any way you slice it, this is a bad team with as many (or more) question marks as the last five lottery finishes.

Let's HOPE for better but EXPECT the same.

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01-15-2013, 09:59 AM
  #239
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WITH STROME

M. Moulson - J. Tavares - B. Boyes
M. Grabner - Strome - K. Okposo
M. Martin - F. Nielsen - C. Cizikas
D. Ullstrom - Reasoner - Boulton
C. McDonald
Bailey/Joensuu - inj.

M. Streit - R. Martinek
A. MacDonald - T. Hamonic
J. Finley - M. Carkner
T. Wishart/M. Donovan/A. Ness/J. Landry
L. Visnovsky - suspended

E. Nabokov
R. DiPietro (Out after 2 games)
K.Poulin/A. Nillsson

I made a few modifications — just my opinion.

If Strome makes the team, I don't see them starting him on the 4th line. I think they learned their lesson with Nino, and will at least see how he looks as the 2nd line center. After 5 games, they will make a decision.

I think Finley makes the team out of camp, and sticks as the 6th defender for at least a few weeks.

Reinhart will be sent to Jr.'s.

AFTER STROME with Bailey healthy and DiPietro out (assuming they send Strome to Jrs after 5 games)

M. Moulson - J. Tavares - B. Boyes
M. Grabner - F. Nielsen - K. Okposo
J. Joensuu - C. Cizikas - J. Bailey
M. Martin - M. Reasoner - D. Ullstrom
E. Boulton (for certain games)

M. Streit - R. Martinek
A. MacDonald - T. Hamonic
J. Finley - M. Carkner
T. Wishart/M. Donovan/A. Ness/J. Landry
L. Visnovsky - suspended

E. Nabokov
K.Poulin/A. Nillsson
R. DiPietro - inj.

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Old
01-15-2013, 10:13 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
We don't need to replace 67 points. Whomever plays with Tavares will get those points. Even Byron Ritchie and Joel Vermin were on fire. Parenteau's "missing points" is something we've made up. Truth is, Okposo was scoring at the same rate (actually better than Parenteau) while he was on JT's line last year (from mid Dec to Feb as I recall)

I'm not worried about Parenteau because we know our top line will be great. The other THREE lines though, that's what will make/break this season. Which Grabner shows up? Can Boyes play on another line?
Problem is that if Okposo puts up the same or better points as PAP, we lose his scoring on the other lines. That means we are relying on secondary scoring which is the problem with not replacing PAP. We are going to be relying on every other player to step up and then on top of that it looks like Ullstrom, Cizikas, and so many more young guys are being brought in here who just aren't as much of a threat to score.

I am very worried about our offense and defense. Funny thing is that goaltending is the least of my concerns. Without Visnovsky this defense is too thin. I hope I am wrong, but I cannot see this team even coming close to competing for a playoff spot. However, this team has surprised me before and we are already past November where we usually have a huge losing streak so maybe they can pull it off?

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01-15-2013, 10:44 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Islanders1932 View Post
Problem is that if Okposo puts up the same or better points as PAP, we lose his scoring on the other lines. That means we are relying on secondary scoring which is the problem with not replacing PAP. We are going to be relying on every other player to step up and then on top of that it looks like Ullstrom, Cizikas, and so many more young guys are being brought in here who just aren't as much of a threat to score.

I am very worried about our offense and defense. Funny thing is that goaltending is the least of my concerns. Without Visnovsky this defense is too thin. I hope I am wrong, but I cannot see this team even coming close to competing for a playoff spot. However, this team has surprised me before and we are already past November where we usually have a huge losing streak so maybe they can pull it off?
Moulson - Tavares - Boyes
Ullstrom - Bailey - Okposo
Grabner - Nielsen - Joensuu
Martin - Reasoner - Boulton/Cizikas/Strome.

While I agree that we "lose" Okposo's scoring, fact is, he was horrible without Tavares for the first two months last year.

Fun fact:
In ONE MONTH playing together last year, from Dec 29th to Jan 31st, Okposo had:
GP - G - A - PTS
15 - 6 - 8 - 14 PTS (JT was in on 12 of those points - 5G -7A)

In the first 31 games before JT:
GP - G - A - PTS
31 - 6 - 7 - 13

In his first 15 games last year:
GP - G - A - PTS
15 - 0 - 3 - 3

Later in the season, Okposo got his game together and had some success with Nielsen-Bailey

he finished the year strong:
GP - G - A - PTS
25 - 12 - 3 - 15pts - ending up with 24 goals. Hopefully he can pick that up.

I'd love to see a:
Ullstrom - Bailey - Okposo line2

Isles need scoring from players like Boyes, Grabner, Okposo, Bailey. The only sure bets on this team are Tavares and Moulson (if they play together). Many are "you get what you get" in Nielsen, Martin, Reasoner, Cizikas, Ullstrom, Joensuu, Boulton.....the wildcards are the big "what ifs" that will make/break this season, offensively.

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01-15-2013, 10:59 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Moulson - Tavares - Boyes
Ullstrom - Bailey - Okposo
Grabner - Nielsen - Joensuu
Martin - Reasoner - Boulton/Cizikas/Strome.

While I agree that we "lose" Okposo's scoring, fact is, he was horrible without Tavares for the first two months last year.

Fun fact:
In ONE MONTH playing together last year, from Dec 29th to Jan 31st, Okposo had:
GP - G - A - PTS
15 - 6 - 8 - 14 PTS (JT was in on 12 of those points - 5G -7A)

In the first 31 games before JT:
GP - G - A - PTS
31 - 6 - 7 - 13

In his first 15 games last year:
GP - G - A - PTS
15 - 0 - 3 - 3

Later in the season, Okposo got his game together and had some success with Nielsen-Bailey

he finished the year strong:
GP - G - A - PTS
25 - 12 - 3 - 15pts - ending up with 24 goals. Hopefully he can pick that up.

I'd love to see a:
Ullstrom - Bailey - Okposo line2

Isles need scoring from players like Boyes, Grabner, Okposo, Bailey. The only sure bets on this team are Tavares and Moulson (if they play together). Many are "you get what you get" in Nielsen, Martin, Reasoner, Cizikas, Ullstrom, Joensuu, Boulton.....the wildcards are the big "what ifs" that will make/break this season, offensively.
I don't see the Isles going back to having Bailey play center. His game took off once he switched to the wing. With guys like Strome/Nelson/Cizikas/Sundstrom in the system and all pretty close to NHL ready, they should have plenty of options up the middle that don't include Josh Bailey.

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01-15-2013, 11:08 AM
  #243
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[Arthur Staple ‏@StapeNewsday
#Isles claim D Thomas Hickey off waivers from Kings.

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01-15-2013, 01:12 PM
  #244
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how many more years are on hickey's contract

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01-15-2013, 01:13 PM
  #245
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how many more years are on hickey's contract
He's a RFA at the end of the season.

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01-15-2013, 01:16 PM
  #246
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I'm starting to feel good about the isles roster
every one in the top 4 can move the puck and hickey can move the puck too which helps a lot on the 3rd pairing, scoring is going to be up this season

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01-15-2013, 01:19 PM
  #247
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Does anyone know if Boyes can still play Center? B/c whenever I play around with lines it's always easier to come up with something I like if I put him at C (and sit Reasoner ).

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01-15-2013, 01:20 PM
  #248
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Quote:
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I'm starting to feel good about the isles roster
every one in the top 4 can move the puck and hickey can move the puck too which helps a lot on the 3rd pairing, scoring is going to be up this season
I don't doubt that, but for which team? Even with Visnovsky in the lineup, our blue line didn't instill too much confidence for me. Now with Hickey and Finley trying to replace him... it could be a long season.

Seth Jones would look good in an Isles jersey though.

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01-15-2013, 01:50 PM
  #249
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From what I've seen on the Isles website, its looking like Cappy really wants to keep Okposo on the top line with JT and MM. And after watching them rip it up last Jan & Feb, i cant blame him - they were dominant.

I love the look of that line, but it may leave the other lines a little thin...so i'm not so sure how long it'll last. But here is my Saturday line-up:

Moulson - Tavares - Okposo
Bailey (Ullstrom) - Nielsen - Boyes
Grabner - Cizikas - Nino
Martin - Reasoner - Boulton/Ullstrom/Joensuu

Streit - Martinek
Hamonic - Macdonald
Carkner - Donovan

***With Bailey hurt, I can see Ullstrom taking his spot on the 2nd line just until he gets back.

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01-15-2013, 01:54 PM
  #250
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From what I've seen on the Isles website, its looking like Cappy really wants to keep Okposo on the top line with JT and MM. And after watching them rip it up last Jan & Feb, i cant blame him - they were dominant.

I love the look of that line, but it may leave the other lines a little thin...so i'm not so sure how long it'll last. But here is my Saturday line-up:

Moulson - Tavares - Okposo
Bailey (Ullstrom) - Nielsen - Boyes
Grabner - Cizikas - Nino
Martin - Reasoner - Boulton/Ullstrom/Joensuu

Streit - Martinek
Hamonic - Macdonald
Carkner - Donovan

***With Bailey hurt, I can see Ullstrom taking his spot on the 2nd line just until he gets back.
Nino and Donovan are not in camp.

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