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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-15-2013, 10:29 AM
  #151
Maximus74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Let's look at what he was traded for at 27, best to look at these things in the context of the time they happened:

First of all, Luongo was without a contract and embroiled in a dispute with Mike Keenan.

Todd Bertuzzi: Was 29 years old, coming off a 25 goal, 71 point season and looked like he may be finally over the Moore incident, was back to being physical and the general consensus was that with a fresh start he could perhaps get back to his 90+ point, physically dominant form. Plus he was a Keenan favourite. Don't think the Leafs have a comparable, but for the purpose of this, lets use Joffrey Lupul.

Alex Auld: Was 24 years old and coming off a full season as a starter in Vancouver and had proven a lot more than James Riemer at this point. Better numbers, more games etc. But again, for arguments sake, lets say Reimer is compareable.

Bryan Allen: Was also 24 and looking like a beast physically. Scored 7 goals to go along with 115 PIM. He was a sought after young defender and probably the hardest piece to part with at the time. Again, the Leafs don't have a compareable and I know you're going to freak out, but considering the aforementioned pieces had higher value than their current Leaf counterparts, I'm going to even it out and say Jake Gardiner here. Think about not only the difference in values between Bert and Lupul and Auld and Reimer, but also that Allen was very physical. (ie don't freak out and tell me how many points Gardiner had, I'm aware).

So we can chalk the trade up to at least something close to this (I've reasoned here and I don't want to argue a hypothetical time-travelling trade, so please don't bother, stick to the point of this post):

To Toronto:
Roberto Luongo (27 years old)
Kevin Connauton
6th round pick

To Vancouver:
Joffrey Lupul
James Reimer
Jake Gardiner

Does that strike you as low value? No. The pieces Florida got may not have worked out the way they had hoped, but at the time it was decent value for an unsigned goaltender. And most around here thought it to be a bit low.

*I realize this is theoretical and not exact and won't be arguing the points of the theoretical trade, just an excersise to prove a point, please spare me the Allen/Gardiner freak out and read the post. Really just showing that Luongo had solid value at the time of the trade.
How can you possibly demand the same value for a player 6-7 years older with an undesirable contract?

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Old
01-15-2013, 10:29 AM
  #152
Le Magnifique 66
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Luongo needs to stop doing interviews. He's not making Gillis' life any easier with them.
For the Canucks side of business agreed, if another team is trying to trade for him they should wait until the off season, asking price will drop big time especially with him saying he wanted out after this season

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01-15-2013, 10:30 AM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
For the Canucks side of business agreed, if another team is trying to trade for him they should wait until the off season, asking price will drop big time especially with him saying he wanted out after this season
where did he say that?

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Old
01-15-2013, 10:33 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
where did he say that?
He probably read it from RDS twitter account, which is legit but in french. Luongo clarified and followed up saying he didn't "want out" after this season instead he just doesn't see himself here long term.

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01-15-2013, 10:33 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
For the Canucks side of business agreed, if another team is trying to trade for him they should wait until the off season, asking price will drop big time especially with him saying he wanted out after this season
*sighs*

He said he does not see himself in Vancouver for long. That is not him saying "trade me now!" We are not trading Luongo unless something of quality is coming back. Why is this concept so difficult for people to grasp?

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01-15-2013, 10:36 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
where did he say that?
See Renaud Lavoie's Twitter account, and then check out the back-peddle job by PassItToBulis' Twitter account.

Luongo needs to learn to decline interviews. Not doing anyone any favors with 'em.

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01-15-2013, 10:36 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
*sighs*

He said he does not see himself in Vancouver for long. That is not him saying "trade me now!" We are not trading Luongo unless something of quality is coming back. Why is this concept so difficult for people to grasp?
It's not for me. I think Luongo plays this season in Vancouver.

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01-15-2013, 10:36 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Let's look at what he was traded for at 27, best to look at these things in the context of the time they happened:

First of all, Luongo was without a contract and embroiled in a dispute with Mike Keenan.

Todd Bertuzzi: Was 29 years old, coming off a 25 goal, 71 point season and looked like he may be finally over the Moore incident, was back to being physical and the general consensus was that with a fresh start he could perhaps get back to his 90+ point, physically dominant form. Plus he was a Keenan favourite. Don't think the Leafs have a comparable, but for the purpose of this, lets use Joffrey Lupul.

Alex Auld: Was 24 years old and coming off a full season as a starter in Vancouver and had proven a lot more than James Riemer at this point. Better numbers, more games etc. But again, for arguments sake, lets say Reimer is compareable.

Bryan Allen: Was also 24 and looking like a beast physically. Scored 7 goals to go along with 115 PIM. He was a sought after young defender and probably the hardest piece to part with at the time. Again, the Leafs don't have a compareable and I know you're going to freak out, but considering the aforementioned pieces had higher value than their current Leaf counterparts, I'm going to even it out and say Jake Gardiner here. Think about not only the difference in values between Bert and Lupul and Auld and Reimer, but also that Allen was very physical. (ie don't freak out and tell me how many points Gardiner had, I'm aware).

So we can chalk the trade up to at least something close to this (I've reasoned here and I don't want to argue a hypothetical time-travelling trade, so please don't bother, stick to the point of this post):

To Toronto:
Roberto Luongo (27 years old)
Kevin Connauton
6th round pick

To Vancouver:
Joffrey Lupul
James Reimer
Jake Gardiner

Does that strike you as low value? No. The pieces Florida got may not have worked out the way they had hoped, but at the time it was decent value for an unsigned goaltender. And most around here thought it to be a bit low.

*I realize this is theoretical and not exact and won't be arguing the points of the theoretical trade, just an excersise to prove a point, please spare me the Allen/Gardiner freak out and read the post. Really just showing that Luongo had solid value at the time of the trade.
Honestly, if Lupul was in the discussion. I'd want one prospect and/or a conditional pick to cover us if he walked.

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01-15-2013, 10:37 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
He probably read it from RDS twitter account, which is legit but in french. Luongo clarified and followed up saying he didn't "want out" after this season instead he just doesn't see himself here long term.
Which is pretty self evident already.

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01-15-2013, 10:42 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
LOL.

As something different from the bickering over Gardiner or Kadri, here's my proposal.

Toronto

Luongo

Vancouver

Kulemin
Protected 1st round pick
Not bad but then I don't know if your nucks would do that, I think Kuley will be back to his pace of 2 years ago but he doesnt solve what Van needs? I know you have to give to get but I would hold out longer to see if Gillis lowers his demands and if not just play out the season and reassess in the off season.

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01-15-2013, 10:42 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Maximus74 View Post
How can you possibly demand the same value for a player 6-7 years older with an undesirable contract?
Come on read the exchange, he said Luongo didn't even have value back then, let alone now, I wrote that post to show he had value at the time of the Panthers/Canucks trade. Here is the last line of my post...

"...just an excersise to prove a point... Really just showing that Luongo had solid value at the time of the trade."

Nothing to do with Luongo's current value, which I personally at no time have commented on.

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Old
01-15-2013, 10:44 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
It's not for me. I think Luongo plays this season in Vancouver.
And thats why we love ya, LL!

At some point, some team will be unhappy with their goaltending. It still could be Toronto, but it could also be Philadelphia, Chicago, San Jose, Tampa Bay, Florida, Edmonton, Anaheim, Ottawa, New Jersey, the Islanders, Washington, Winnipeg, Columbus or anyone with a goaltender that isn't on par with Luongo. I'm not saying all, but 1 or 2? Not out of the question at all. We can afford him for now, and all it takes is an injury or a comment about bears, and we can make a deal that suits us better then what ever a team thinks they can live without.

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01-15-2013, 10:46 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Maximus74 View Post
How can you possibly demand the same value for a player 6-7 years older with an undesirable contract?
How long was the contract Luongo was signed for before coming a UFA? Maybe that has some bearing on his value at the time. There was no guarantee he would be signing a contract with the Canucks.



Derp ... see above ...


I guess it also comes down to how blind one must be to consider Luongo's contract a detriment to any GM in the league wanting to trade for him.

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Old
01-15-2013, 10:47 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
And thats why we love ya, LL!

At some point, some team will be unhappy with their goaltending. It still could be Toronto, but it could also be Philadelphia, Chicago, San Jose, Tampa Bay, Florida, Edmonton, Anaheim, Ottawa, New Jersey, the Islanders, Washington, Winnipeg, Columbus or anyone with a goaltender that isn't on par with Luongo. I'm not saying all, but 1 or 2? Not out of the question at all. We can afford him for now, and all it takes is an injury or a comment about bears, and we can make a deal that suits us better then what ever a team thinks they can live without.
Teams don't normally solve an injury problem by shelling out for a 10 year contract....i could be wrong though.

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01-15-2013, 10:48 AM
  #165
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So now that Roberto has made it clear that he does not want to stay beyond this year, what does that do for his trade value? I'd say it dipped dramatically because every team will know Mike Gillis has a hard deadline to work with.
It depends how many teams are interested. If only one team has any interest in the summer then his value likely plummets, but if there are multiple teams in the fold then the impact will be minimal.

If Gillis has an offer on the table from Florida, say Shore + 2014 1st for example, is Nonis going to stay out of the bidding if he can make a better deal that makes sense for the Leafs? If he chooses to do so he'll be passing up an opportunity to improve his team for no other reason than not wanting to bid against Florida. This is irresponsible in his duties as a GM.

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Old
01-15-2013, 10:52 AM
  #166
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What clock? The Canucks are under salary cap with some *minor* adjustments (ie don't resign Malhorta 2.5 Million, Ballard, etc.). They have the money to do whatever they want with him. There is absolutely no pressure on Gillis to make a move to "rid himself" of Luongo except the pressure Luongo and his agent put on him, which can do nothing but open more options to where Luongo is willing to go.

I don't know if you're a Canucks fan or not, but Gillis is annoyingly patient with players (Bernier, Raymond, etc), so I don't forsee him being any different come this situation.
The clock that you are oblivious of. If Luongo is not traded, and I don't even care where to, this WILL be a distraction. The media will be relentless asking the questions every day until a deal is done. They will ask Gillis, they will as Bobby Lu and they will ask good ol'Cory. Every. Day.

If you do not think that is a distraction, then you live in a bubble.

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01-15-2013, 10:53 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Maximus74 View Post
How can you possibly demand the same value for a player 6-7 years older with an undesirable contract?
Agreed. If Luongo were 27, just entering his prime, with the same contract he had then in a non-salary cap league, yes the Leafs (or whoever aquires him) would have to pay through the nose to get him. Problem is Luongo is now in the tail end of his prime years, he does not have 6-7 big seasons left in him as he did when Vancouver added him and he has a contract that promises future headaches for whoever takes it due to the salary cap.

What Luongo's value is can be debated until the end of time. In the end it will come down to what another GM is willing to give up and what Gillis will accept. Luongo does indeed have value, but to expect the same value for him now as Vancouver paid to aquire him all those years back is dreaming. If this is what Gillis is seeking (doubtful), then Luongo will be in Vancouver for a looooooooong time.

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01-15-2013, 10:53 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
It depends how many teams are interested. If only one team has any interest in the summer then his value likely plummets, but if there are multiple teams in the fold then the impact will be minimal.

If Gillis has an offer on the table from Florida, say Shore 2014 1st for example, is Nonis going to stay out of the bidding if he can make a better deal that makes sense for the Leafs? If he chooses to do so he'll be passing up an opportunity to improve his team for no other reason than not wanting to bid against Florida.
If we are talking about offseason, Toronto's interest will hinge soley on what Reimer does this year. If Reimer gets us in the playoffs and posts a .920+ save percentage then TO will be absolutely out on Luongo.

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01-15-2013, 10:56 AM
  #169
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The clock that you are oblivious of. If Luongo is not traded, and I don't even care where to, this WILL be a distraction. The media will be relentless asking the questions every day until a deal is done. They will ask Gillis, they will as Bobby Lu and they will ask good ol'Cory. Every. Day.

If you do not think that is a distraction, then you live in a bubble.

They haven't been asking questions the past 2 Years when Schneider and Luongo shared the crease. I honestly believe that Luongo and Schneider are both professionals that are able to prevent this from becoming a distraction. They'll even resort to "run of the mill" type of answers.

On that note; I believe the Canucks want to get a deal done because it could provide a good return to improve the team in other areas but I don't see them getting rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him or any "clock".

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01-15-2013, 10:57 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by CellarDweller0 View Post
The clock that you are oblivious of. If Luongo is not traded, and I don't even care where to, this WILL be a distraction. The media will be relentless asking the questions every day until a deal is done. They will ask Gillis, they will as Bobby Lu and they will ask good ol'Cory. Every. Day.

If you do not think that is a distraction, then you live in a bubble.
If it's true that he is only going to get 3 starts in the first 10 games, i can't see him remaining to happy. In a year like this, that gives him a total of 13ish starts.....not exactly what he's used to. Those numbers may change either way depending on Schnieder's performance.

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01-15-2013, 10:59 AM
  #171
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Teams don't normally solve an injury problem by shelling out for a 10 year contract....i could be wrong though.
It would depend on the team. Philly, Chicago or Washington, who both have huge playoff aspirations, could decide that fixing goaltending once and for all is worth the cost.

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01-15-2013, 11:01 AM
  #172
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If we are talking about offseason, Toronto's interest will hinge soley on what Reimer does this year. If Reimer gets us in the playoffs and posts a .920+ save percentage then TO will be absolutely out on Luongo.
Okay, but that doesn't really affect the spirit of my response. As long as there are multiple teams with interest then Luongo wanting to leave will have a minimal impact on his trade value. The market effect will be negligible.

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01-15-2013, 11:01 AM
  #173
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They haven't been asking questions the past 2 Years when Schneider and Luongo shared the crease. I honestly believe that Luongo and Schneider are both professionals that can not let this become a distraction.

On that note; I believe the Canucks want to get a deal done because it could provide a good return to improve the team in other areas but I don't see them getting rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him or any "clock".
Do you honestly believe that the situation is the same as it was 2 years ago?

It's fine if you don't think it will be a distraction. You are entitled to that for sure. I just don't think it's realistic tbh and to be clear I am not saying this to drive Lu's value down in this thread because I don't really care where he goes if anywhere at all.

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01-15-2013, 11:03 AM
  #174
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Not sure how Luongo saying he doesn't see himself in Vancouver long term hurts his trade value? Is this some kind of new revelation? I thought it was already common knowledge that Schneider is taking the reigns. Luongo has made it clear that he would like the opportunity to be a number one again, so nothing has changed.

He is either going to Florida or a team not named the Maple Leafs prior to the season or he will likely play out the year in Vancouver, unless a team comes in with a significant trade deadline deal. Next summer the market for all free agents should be large. After teams use amnesty buyouts, there will be more teams viable as an option. This isn't going to increase Luongo's worth, as he will be a year older, but it will just mean more viable trading partners. A rebuilding bottom rung team with a mediocre prospect pool is not a good trading partner for the Canucks or a good destination for Luongo. And for those that keep saying the Canucks might have to buy him out, get a clue. In a worse case scenario, where teams only offer us negative value or Luongo blocked any trade, the Canucks could still put him on waivers. It won't ever come to that, but he would never clear waivers.

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01-15-2013, 11:05 AM
  #175
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Do you honestly believe that the situation is the same as it was 2 years ago?

It's fine if you don't think it will be a distraction. You are entitled to that for sure. I just don't think it's realistic tbh and to be clear I am not saying this to drive Lu's value down in this thread because I don't really care where he goes if anywhere at all.
In a shortened seasons I doubt it ever becomes an issue. It is just wishful dreaming from other team fans that keeps that theory alive. Luongo himself said as much. If this was a full season I have no doubt it would become a distraction but for anyone to think this will be an issue in a 48 game season is just ridiculous. Especially if the team is winning.

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