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Hickey (NYI) & Clune (NSH) Claimed from Waivers

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01-15-2013, 11:51 AM
  #151
ScoreZeGoals
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Not too happy with this situation. Hickey was Manchester's best defenseman, and should have been brought to camp and given a chance to compete for the spot to step-in for Mitchell or be the #7. Instead, they would rather give a chance to Muzzin who has been awful and continues to make one boneheaded mistake after another. Also, with everyone wanting defenseman and him being picked-up on waivers, I refuse to believe we couldn't have traded him.

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01-15-2013, 11:53 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Not too happy with this situation. Hickey was Manchester's best defenseman, and should have been brought to camp and given a chance to compete for the spot to step-in for Mitchell or be the #7. Instead, they would rather give a chance to Muzzin who has been awful and continues to make one boneheaded mistake after another.
But he fills a role.......LOL. Turning over pucks maybe.

Not using his god given size.

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01-15-2013, 11:53 AM
  #153
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I'm willing to bet there is more to this than anyone knows. Given the team the DL has built on the ice, I'm going to trust in him that he's doing what is best.

Hickey is a puck moving defensemen, yet the current roster has 3 Young guys already in place in Doughty, Voynov and Martinez. I'm willing to bet Hickey was unhappy as he has put in his time, there is just no room for him.

None of us know what the interest level was from other teams, maybe DL did try and shop him around and had no buyers. Maybe DL has a replacement in mind for him already that's an upgrade, just have to wait for some things to happen. Who knows.

I do know the Kings have no real holes in their lineup and fresh off a Cup win. I'll "trust" that DL knows what he's doing, regardless of what some of us armchair GM's think.

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01-15-2013, 11:54 AM
  #154
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One thing I love about this board.
Hickey was a pariah to most of the posters here from SoCal. A bust, a waste of a pick, etc.

Now that he got claimed, it's poor asset management by DL(who was just praised for his asset mgnt skills for the Westgarth trade)

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01-15-2013, 11:55 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
Now that he got claimed, it's poor asset management by DL(who was just praised for his asset mgnt skills for the Westgarth trade)
Nobody bats a thousand

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01-15-2013, 11:56 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
One thing I love about this board.
Hickey was a pariah to most of the posters here from SoCal. A bust, a waste of a pick, etc.

Now that he got claimed, it's poor asset management by DL(who was just praised for his asset mgnt skills for the Westgarth trade)
I don't even care Hickey got claimed for nothing, Glad he did actually. He was not going to get a shot here.

Kid deserved a chance to play.

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01-15-2013, 11:56 AM
  #157
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Being Manchester's best defenseman has little to do with being the Kings' Stanley Cup defending defenseman. I don't think anyone questions Voynov or Martinez being brought to the team over Hickey now, even though it was debated at the time. Draft position isn't going to change him into a NHL shutdown defenseman with more size.

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01-15-2013, 11:57 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post

I am not saying to turn a blind eye to it, or that Dean did everything right. I am just saying that there was good reasoning at the time of the pick, and that if you are expecting your scouting staff to be perfect, then you're in for disappointment.

Failed picks happen, and our scouting staff has done a very good job for us these past few years. They made up for there mistakes by hitting on more prospects in the later rounds. Doesn't make the pick O.K. but does the job of getting us to the Cup. Hickey had his chance and failed. The worst thing they could do is force Hickey in the NHL lineup to defend the cup in a shutdown role. Our staff says he won't fit the bill and I am inclined to agree with them over your assessment.

Dean tried to move him and couldn't. There is nothing he can do at this point. Hickey had to go. There was no other choice. The pick was a mistake, but our staff did their job, and Hickey didn't live up to his billing and lost out on his. They are not going to treat him special or risk wins in a mini-season to squeeze out a mid to late pick. We are not desperate for picks. We are in a win now mode.

Trust our staff to do that job and disregard their egos and draft pick titles.
Which totally misses my point.

I'm arguably the biggest draft supporter in here. I don't agree with how our scouting staff has handled the first round, but outside of that i think we have the best scouting staff in the biz.

What my point was is in regards to asset management. That only starts at the draft, but the way this particular asset has been managed for the past five years has led from it being worthy of a 4th overall pick to not being worth a nickel.

As I said before, I'm huge DL supported, but in this particular instance he messed up big time. Yes there were some other factors involved, such as injuries and Hickey underperforming given the talent he was assessed to have, but DL should have decided what to do a few years ago, not let an asset like this waste away to nothing.

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01-15-2013, 11:58 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Being Manchester's best defenseman has little to do with being the Kings' Stanley Cup defending defenseman. I don't think anyone questions Voynov or Martinez being brought to the team over Hickey now, even though it was debated at the time. Draft position isn't going to change him into a NHL shutdown defenseman with more size.
Nobody is saying he should replace A-mart or Slava. Just would have liked to see him get a shot at bottom pairing. Which he will now get with NYI.

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01-15-2013, 12:02 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Being Manchester's best defenseman has little to do with being the Kings' Stanley Cup defending defenseman. I don't think anyone questions Voynov or Martinez being brought to the team over Hickey now, even though it was debated at the time. Draft position isn't going to change him into a NHL shutdown defenseman with more size.
Being called-up isn't magically going to make Muzzin a smart hockey player either. Hickey was better than Muzzin (easily) and should have been given an opportunity at the bottom pairing/#7 spot, especially because we have an opening with Mitchell down.

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01-15-2013, 12:03 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Which totally misses my point.

I'm arguably the biggest draft supporter in here. I don't agree with how our scouting staff has handled the first round, but outside of that i think we have the best scouting staff in the biz.

What my point was is in regards to asset management. That only starts at the draft, but the way this particular asset has been managed for the past five years has led from it being worthy of a 4th overall pick to not being worth a nickel.

As I said before, I'm huge DL supported, but in this particular instance he messed up big time. Yes there were some other factors involved, such as injuries and Hickey underperforming given the talent he was assessed to have, but DL should have decided what to do a few years ago, not let an asset like this waste away to nothing.
Oh I heard your point, and said that stamping about it now won't do anything. You said that Hickey should have been kept over others, but that misapprehends what this team is trying to do. They can't let losing him for nothing force them into a decision that hurts this team. This team gave Hickey a chance through Manchester and he was blatantly outperformed at every step by his teammates. Hickey lost his job and through that he hurt his own value.

His value has been squat for years. You are dreaming to think that Dean could have got much of anything for him in the past few years. The damage was done. The best Hickey could have yielded was being replaced with Teubert in the Penner trade. Dazzling...

This is not NHL 13. You can't just open a trade window, add some picks, and come out with a decent player. They tried to develop Hickey and he couldn't reach the mark, by that time his value was garbage. So we missed out on a 4th round pick... Oh well, Manchester had a decent defenseman for a while, our kids got more experience, and the right individuals were called up and we won the cup. The call was good.

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01-15-2013, 12:05 PM
  #162
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I'll be rooting for Hickey, hope he finally begins his NHL career. Best of luck to him

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01-15-2013, 12:08 PM
  #163
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I wish Hickey and Clune well. They will get to play in the NHL until they show they can't.

Sometimes you just have to lose guys. The guys in our system got the shaft last year because there really were no significant or multiple injured players where these guys would get a couple games in the pros to show their stuff.

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01-15-2013, 12:09 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Nobody is saying he should replace A-mart or Slava. Just would have liked to see him get a shot at bottom pairing. Which he will now get with NYI.
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Being called-up isn't magically going to make Muzzin a smart hockey player either. Hickey was better than Muzzin (easily) and should have been given an opportunity at the bottom pairing/#7 spot, especially because we have an opening with Mitchell down.
My point is that obviously our staff didn't agree with you, and it is quite apparent that they've made the right calls in hindsight with Manchester's call-ups. I'd trust their call on Hickey now.

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01-15-2013, 12:11 PM
  #165
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My point is that obviously our staff didn't agree with you, and it is quite apparent that they've made the right calls in hindsight with Manchester's call-ups. I'd trust their call on Hickey now.
Moulson and Purcell come to mind. But the Kings did win a cup.

Nobody is perfect including Lombardi.

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01-15-2013, 12:12 PM
  #166
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Also, with everyone wanting defenseman and him being picked-up on waivers, I refuse to believe we couldn't have traded him.
You have to have a team wanting to make a trade to trade with. I don't know if anyone is knocking down the door for a guy who hasn't played a shift in the NHL 5 years after being drafted #4 overall. Every GM knew Hickey would have to go on waivers. Unless Lombardi had a high price tag which teams had no interest in, why trade anything for a project that you're not really thrilled with getting?

I would refuse to believe that had Lombardi gotten an offer, that he wouldn't have traded him. From a purely selfish point of view, it makes Lombardi look better if he gets something for Hickey in a trade, as opposed to losing him for nothing. He has no reason to not get something for him if he can.

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01-15-2013, 12:12 PM
  #167
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Scouting is a tough job.

But for every Hickey, Teubert or Patrick Stefan out there, there are tons of Datsyuks, Zetterbergs, Martinezs, Voynovs, and Jamie Benns.

You take the misses with the hits for sure.

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01-15-2013, 12:13 PM
  #168
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Sometimes you just have to lose guys. The guys in our system got the shaft last year because there really were no significant or multiple injured players where these guys would get a couple games in the pros to show their stuff.
This x 1,000,042

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01-15-2013, 12:13 PM
  #169
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You have to have a team wanting to make a trade to trade with. I don't know if anyone is knocking down the door for a guy who hasn't played a shift in the NHL 5 years after being drafted #4 overall. Every GM knew Hickey would have to go on waivers. Unless Lombardi had a high price tag which teams had no interest in, why trade anything for a project that you're not really thrilled with getting?

I would refuse to believe that had Lombardi gotten an offer, that he wouldn't have traded him. From a purely selfish point of view, it makes Lombardi look better if he gets something for Hickey in a trade, as opposed to losing him for nothing. He has no reason to not get something for him if he can.
Teams knew Hickey had to hit the waiver wire at some point. the NYI for instance were not going to trade assets for Hickey.

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01-15-2013, 12:14 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Oh I heard your point, and said that stamping about it now won't do anything. You said that Hickey should have been kept over others, but that misapprehends what this team is trying to do. They can't let losing him for nothing force them into a decision that hurts this team. This team gave Hickey a chance through Manchester and he was blatantly outperformed at every step in Manchester. Hickey lost his job and through that he hurt his own value.

His value has been squat for years. You are dreaming to think that Dean could have got much of anything for him in the past few years. The damage was done. The best Hickey could have yielded was being replaced with Teubert in the Penner trade. Dazzling...
So because my 'stamping' over it won't do anything I should just leave it be? Get off your high horse.

Explain how he blatantly underperformed? Ever Manchester watchers says he was the best D-man in Manchester this year. That's a defense that including Voynov btw, and no one here would dare suggest Voynov be waived. Additionally, many posters have commented the past few training camps that Hickey was exceedingly close to making the Kings line up, and IMO the lone reason he didn't beat out Voynov last year was due to Hickey having a higher cap hit at a time when we were very tight against the cap ceiling, thanks to the signings of Trent Hunter and Ethan Moreau.

Many people on this board, especially those who watch Hickey play, have said the kid would be an NHL regular on many other NHL rosters, just that we are so deep that we don't have room for him. Similar to Kyle Quincey from Detroit a few years back. Was he worth nothing as well? Seems like he's fecthed a nice return in some tardes he's been involved in since we claimed in on waivers.

If you want to talk about this team forcing themselves into a decision which could hurt them, look at their desire to cookie cut certain roles for certain players, such as what looks like Muzzin in as the 6th D-man (barring a tarde) despite the claims of many that the last good pass he made was the bread at supper.

DL and Co have a desire to over develop players, which is fine, as theya re ready to step in when needed, such as King last year and A-Mart and Voynov as well. The problem is they also will pass over good prospects without giving them a chance to see what they can do in a role that maybe isn't geared 100% towards them, such as Holloway and now Hickey.

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01-15-2013, 12:18 PM
  #171
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For those crying foul about poor asset management, realize that it was 6 years ago when the Kings selected Hickey. There was no future for him in LA and no team was going to offer anything noteworthy for a player who has gone through many struggles due to injuries. He's too fragile to withstand punishment at the NHL level.

At some point, you cut your losses and move on. Six years have passed since that pick, it was time to move on and give him an opportunity elsewhere. They probably would have cut Hickey loose at the end of this season anyway.

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01-15-2013, 12:18 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Nobody is saying he should replace A-mart or Slava. Just would have liked to see him get a shot at bottom pairing. Which he will now get with NYI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Being called-up isn't magically going to make Muzzin a smart hockey player either. Hickey was better than Muzzin (easily) and should have been given an opportunity at the bottom pairing/#7 spot, especially because we have an opening with Mitchell down.
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Moulson and Purcell come to mind. But we did win a cup.
Moulson and Purcell are the same with Hickey, they just didn't fit our philosophy. We are not the Flyers (system wise ) and don't intend to win games 8-7. It is regrettable that Murray didn't give them more of a shot on the top 6, and they certainly couldn't fill what we needed on the bottom 6.

Hickey isn't a bottom 6 grinder, a bottom pairing shutdown defenseman, and everyone thinking because he was doing O.K. in the AHL therefore he can be a shutdown defender in the NHL are just being a little too optimistic. Shoulda woulda coulda aside, our team made what they believed the best call was for them right now, and Hickey with Martinez on the bottom pairing wasn't the answer.

This is all about the pain of a failed 4th overall pick, these reactions have nothing to do about the actual charts today. Hickey did not fit our model of a sizable shutdown defenseman to place next to a puck moving offensive defenseman. A model that turned out to be a good idea last season.

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01-15-2013, 12:18 PM
  #173
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So because my 'stamping' over it won't do anything I should just leave it be? Get off your high horse.

Explain how he blatantly underperformed? Ever Manchester watchers says he was the best D-man in Manchester this year. That's a defense that including Voynov btw, and no one here would dare suggest Voynov be waived. Additionally, many posters have commented the past few training camps that Hickey was exceedingly close to making the Kings line up, and IMO the lone reason he didn't beat out Voynov last year was due to Hickey having a higher cap hit at a time when we were very tight against the cap ceiling, thanks to the signings of Trent Hunter and Ethan Moreau.

Many people on this board, especially those who watch Hickey play, have said the kid would be an NHL regular on many other NHL rosters, just that we are so deep that we don't have room for him. Similar to Kyle Quincey from Detroit a few years back. Was he worth nothing as well? Seems like he's fecthed a nice return in some tardes he's been involved in since we claimed in on waivers.

If you want to talk about this team forcing themselves into a decision which could hurt them, look at their desire to cookie cut certain roles for certain players, such as what looks like Muzzin in as the 6th D-man (barring a tarde) despite the claims of many that the last good pass he made was the bread at supper.

DL and Co have a desire to over develop players, which is fine, as theya re ready to step in when needed, such as King last year and A-Mart and Voynov as well. The problem is they also will pass over good prospects without giving them a chance to see what they can do in a role that maybe isn't geared 100% towards them, such as Holloway and now Hickey.
My thing is I don't understand the Love for Muzzin. He has Jack Johnson 2.0 written all over him(without the offense).

He doesn't think the game well at all.

Also you are 100% correct on Slava, he was lazy as hell in Manchester. I hope we don't see some Russian sophomore slump out of him.

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01-15-2013, 12:19 PM
  #174
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oh well. just move along. can't get them all 100% right. bad pick, mis-managed pick....whatever the case. we can ***** about the Hickey and Teubert picks, but how about pulling the likes of Amart and Voynov out of no where. those picks offset and help soften the sting of 1st rounders that don't pay out

remember this



and let's not forget what his skills have brought to the team


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01-15-2013, 12:19 PM
  #175
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Hickey is a talented kid who for several reasons didn't get a chance to crack our roster. It started with injuries and then just flat out having to compete with our talented kids who had developed a little bit more quickly. He is finding his game and is NHL ready but still doesn't fit in with what our D line up needs.

He is a solid person with great leadership qualities and I am happy that he is going to get his chance to pay for a team that not only has room for him but needs him too. These things happen and while I would rather we have found some sort of return for him I am alright with him moving along to start his NHL career.


Best of luck TH.

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