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Old
01-15-2013, 11:23 AM
  #1
dave babych returns
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Canucks' Training Camp Thread

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Originally Posted by CookieCrumbs View Post
I agree, AV is keeping him on a leash. You can't do that with a player like this if you want to bring pure aggression to your team. Let him play the way he plays. It's frustrating to see.
Yeah look at what the last coaching staff did with Todd Bertuzzi.

From his 10 game suspension for leaving the bench to countless selfish penalties late in games to the incident-which-will-not-be-named that tarnished his career and this organization, if there's one thing to be learned about molding a young power forward it's that they definitely don't need to be taught to pick their spots.

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01-15-2013, 11:28 AM
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Reign Nateo
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
Yeah look at what the last coaching staff did with Todd Bertuzzi.

From his 10 game suspension for leaving the bench to countless selfish penalties late in games to the incident-which-will-not-be-named that tarnished his career and this organization, if there's one thing to be learned about molding a young power forward it's that they definitely don't need to be taught to pick their spots.
Say what?

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01-15-2013, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Say what?
Sarcasm.

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01-15-2013, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Say what?
I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm.

EDIT: Beaten to it! Stupid slow internet, SFU.

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01-15-2013, 11:37 AM
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There are polite ways to disagree with someone without coming across as a giant ****.
You have actual experience with this?

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01-15-2013, 11:38 AM
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so there's no stream of training camp?

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01-15-2013, 11:40 AM
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PRNuck
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
Yeah look at what the last coaching staff did with Todd Bertuzzi.

From his 10 game suspension for leaving the bench to countless selfish penalties late in games to the incident-which-will-not-be-named that tarnished his career and this organization, if there's one thing to be learned about molding a young power forward it's that they definitely don't need to be taught to pick their spots.
Blech. I don't think this coaching staff gives anyone the free pass Crow gave Bert and Naslund, they could do no wrong.

Also, in reference to the discussion from a page or two back (damn work interfering with my HFBoarding), I'm not sure I entirely agree with starting prospects on the 4th line. For most prospects, yeah, good idea. But for our guys who, let's be reality, this team needs to become the stars of the future (Kassian and Jensen) I think their development would be better served by having good linemates and actually being significant offensive contributors.

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01-15-2013, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Bieksallent View Post
Sarcasm.
Ah thanks, missed that.

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01-15-2013, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
Yeah look at what the last coaching staff did with Todd Bertuzzi.

From his 10 game suspension for leaving the bench to countless selfish penalties late in games to the incident-which-will-not-be-named that tarnished his career and this organization, if there's one thing to be learned about molding a young power forward it's that they definitely don't need to be taught to pick their spots.
I'll never have a problem with Bertuzzi leaving the bench to not only defend, but to actually protect a teammate.

10 games is a harsh penalty, but that play IMO brought the WCE and team together...

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01-15-2013, 11:51 AM
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Coaches are supposed to be the adults. Letting the players do what they want can only have negative consequences...most recent ex. RG3.

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01-15-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
Blech. I don't think this coaching staff gives anyone the free pass Crow gave Bert and Naslund, they could do no wrong.
True and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Quote:
Also, in reference to the discussion from a page or two back (damn work interfering with my HFBoarding), I'm not sure I entirely agree with starting prospects on the 4th line. For most prospects, yeah, good idea. But for our guys who, let's be reality, this team needs to become the stars of the future (Kassian and Jensen) I think their development would be better served by having good linemates and actually being significant offensive contributors.
Well despite having a small handful of very talented forwards, I think this team lives and dies by its work ethic and its commitment to tight systems play (think of our most spectacular losses, the team falls apart and gets lit up on the scoreboard).

And even those very talented forwards had to take time to learn that system and learn to play the game at the speed it's done in the NHL from a limited role before they were rewarded with bigger roles and more ice time.

The only exception I can really think of on this team is the Sedins and the Canucks team they joined was so short of NHL depth that there was no way they weren't immediately the third best line.

If Jensen is that good then he will start on the fourth line and be off it in very short order. If he is not then he will probably spend 20-40 games there before getting larger assignments.

These guys are kids who will struggle with consistency, more importantly the team doesn't need them to play key roles immediately.. it's better for every one to let them wade in rather than putting them in a position where they are not competent defensively and must live and die on their offensive production - on a line that has to produce.

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I'll never have a problem with Bertuzzi leaving the bench to not only defend, but to actually protect a teammate.

10 games is a harsh penalty, but that play IMO brought the WCE and team together...
You know what, I liked it at the time too. And I'll always have sympathy for his motives under the circumstances.

If Bertuzzi had been taught a hard lesson by that incident, perhaps he wouldn't have ruined two careers and effectively ended the WCE era a few years later.

But I would guess the coaching staff probably treated Bertuzzi the same way you and I (and other fans) would have, "gee Todd, that 10 gamer really hurts but way to stand up for the guys.."

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01-15-2013, 11:56 AM
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I would love to have a player like Bertuzzi on my team any damn day of the week.

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01-15-2013, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
Blech. I don't think this coaching staff gives anyone the free pass Crow gave Bert and Naslund, they could do no wrong.

Also, in reference to the discussion from a page or two back (damn work interfering with my HFBoarding), I'm not sure I entirely agree with starting prospects on the 4th line. For most prospects, yeah, good idea. But for our guys who, let's be reality, this team needs to become the stars of the future (Kassian and Jensen) I think their development would be better served by having good linemates and actually being significant offensive contributors.
I agree with Jensen, but not so much for Kassian. I think a major part of Kassian's development will involve becoming more consistent with his physicality and energy level. Playing on the fourth line with Lapierre could do wonders to help him realize that part of his game.

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01-15-2013, 12:02 PM
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Schroeder better make the team. I am so sick of how we just bury our prospects and not give them a chance. I also want to get Schroeder as far away from Scott Arneil as possible.

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01-15-2013, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
I agree with Jensen, but not so much for Kassian. I think a major part of Kassian's development will involve becoming more consistent with his physicality and energy level. Playing on the fourth line with Lapierre could do wonders to help him realize that part of his game.
I know what you're getting at for sure, but I worry it'll just stunt his offensive growth. His playmaking is really only second to the Sedins on this team, and I just wonder how many passes he's going to see Lappy and Weise flub before he gives up.

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01-15-2013, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Schroeder better make the team. I am so sick of how we just bury our prospects and not give them a chance. I also want to get Schroeder as far away from Scott Arneil as possible.
Agreed. I'm disappointed to hear who he's playing with so far. He can do good things with the puck if they'll let him.

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01-15-2013, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
Agreed. I'm disappointed to hear who he's playing with so far. He can do good things with the puck if they'll let him.
What's wrong with Raymond and Kassian? Honestly, if he deserves it then he'll make it. If he doesn't then he'll go back to the AHL and have to work harder.

Also, claiming that AV doesn't like prospects is such ********. We're loaded with guys he grew into the players they are today.

I hate Arniel and what he's doing at the farm and I'm not AV's biggest fan, but I do know that AV will pick the guy that plays the best. If that's not Schroeder then he has no one to blame but himself.

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01-15-2013, 12:08 PM
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Kassian needs to be let free offensively and physically. The only thing that AV should have a leash on Kass is his defensive game.

Raymond Schroeder Kassian 2nd line please. Then when Kesler's back shift them down to the 3rd line.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Higgins
Raymond Schroeder Kassian
Malhotra Lapierre Hansen

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01-15-2013, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
What's wrong with Raymond and Kassian? Honestly, if he deserves it then he'll make it. If he doesn't then he'll go back to the AHL and have to work harder.

Also, claiming that AV doesn't like prospects is such ********. We're loaded with guys he grew into the players they are today.

I hate Arniel and what he's doing at the farm and I'm not AV's biggest fan, but I do know that AV will pick the guy that plays the best. If that's not Schroeder then he has no one to blame but himself.
Agreed.

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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
Kassian needs to be let free offensively and physically. The only thing that AV should have a leash on Kass is his defensive game.

Raymond Schroeder Kassian 2nd line please.
AV isn't one to stifle physical play.

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01-15-2013, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CookieCrumbs View Post
I would love to have a player like Bertuzzi on my team any damn day of the week.
Yes and no. Would I want his ferocity and his bull-in-a-china-shop demolition of the enemy that he demonstrated pre-Moore? Yeah. Would I want his 10 cent head, sullenness, and laziness in the defensive zone? No. Would I want today's Bertuzzi, who is essentially a heavyset perimeter player with deft hands but little to none of his former snarl? Not really.

If Bertuzzi had been a smarter man and rounded out his game more, he could have been a dominant power forward in this league for over a decade instead of a couple of memorable seasons, and enjoyed a Hall of Fame caliber career. Alas, we all know what happened.

His defense of his teammates is often attributed to a big heart and plenty of caring, but oddly that never manifested itself in the form of a reliable back check. I suspect it was as much his short fuse as anything. I loved the guy, but he was a deeply flawed hockey player. Teaching Kassian to pick his spots intelligently is probably very, very wise.

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01-15-2013, 12:10 PM
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dave babych returns
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Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
I know what you're getting at for sure, but I worry it'll just stunt his offensive growth. His playmaking is really only second to the Sedins on this team, and I just wonder how many passes he's going to see Lappy and Weise flub before he gives up.
"Boy it's tough to score on the fourth line, I guess maybe professional hockeys not for me."



I don't mean to have a go at you personally but the kinds of attitudes people attribute to NHL players a lot of the time really underestimate their professionalism.

If Nicklas Jensen is going to be an impact player in the NHL, then I think he can probably take a half season or so of paying his dues (and learning not to be a liability on the ice during that time).

If he can't take that, then I don't think we need to worry about it stunting his development because he probably doesn't have what it takes to succeed at the highest level.

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01-15-2013, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BloatedGuppy View Post
Yes and no. Would I want his ferocity and his bull-in-a-china-shop demolition of the enemy that he demonstrated pre-Moore? Yeah. Would I want his 10 cent head, sullenness, and laziness in the defensive zone? No. Would I want today's Bertuzzi, who is essentially a heavyset perimeter player with deft hands but little to none of his former snarl? Not really.

If Bertuzzi had been a smarter man and rounded out his game more, he could have been a dominant power forward in this league for over a decade instead of a couple of memorable seasons, and enjoyed a Hall of Fame caliber career. Alas, we all know what happened.

His defense of his teammates is often attributed to a big heart and plenty of caring, but oddly that never manifested itself in the form of a reliable back check. I suspect it was as much his short fuse as anything. I loved the guy, but he was a deeply flawed hockey player. Teaching Kassian to pick his spots intelligently is probably very, very wise.
Great post, wish I had expressed my thoughts that well because that's 100% what I am trying to say.

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01-15-2013, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
"Boy it's tough to score on the fourth line, I guess maybe professional hockeys not for me."



I don't mean to have a go at you personally but the kinds of attitudes people attribute to NHL players a lot of the time really underestimate their professionalism.

If Nicklas Jensen is going to be an impact player in the NHL, then I think he can probably take a half season or so of paying his dues (and learning not to be a liability on the ice during that time).

If he can't take that, then I don't think we need to worry about it stunting his development because he probably doesn't have what it takes to succeed at the highest level.
Lol I meant before he gives up on passing Becoming a one dimensional power move to the net or cross the blueline and take a wrister kind of guy.

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01-15-2013, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
What's wrong with Raymond and Kassian? Honestly, if he deserves it then he'll make it. If he doesn't then he'll go back to the AHL and have to work harder.

Also, claiming that AV doesn't like prospects is such ********. We're loaded with guys he grew into the players they are today.

I hate Arniel and what he's doing at the farm and I'm not AV's biggest fan, but I do know that AV will pick the guy that plays the best. If that's not Schroeder then he has no one to blame but himself.
I missed reports he was with Kassian, that warms my heart. I liked their work together with the Wolves.

(Raymond just sucks)

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Old
01-15-2013, 12:15 PM
  #25
dave babych returns
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Lol I meant before he gives up on passing Becoming a one dimensional power move to the net or cross the blueline and take a wrister kind of guy.
Honestly, while he's playing with fourth liners he might.

I hope Jensen grows into a versatile player who is able to adjust to different scenarios and linemates and play the most effective game that the circumstances allow.. but one way or the other he's going to have to grow into a player with enough competence in his own zone to not be a liability, and that starts on the fourth line for most players.

Anyway as long as we have Dale Wiese around there's no need to worry about the skill level of the fourth line.. anyone know how to say "The Great One" in Dutch?

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