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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-15-2013, 12:30 PM
  #251
I in the Eye
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Welcome to the club consisting of 29 other teams that would like to find that...
And his salary is 6~ but his cap is 5.3, which is very resonable.
I agree... But it makes sense for teams, those who are in business of winning, to acquire Luongo... Toronto isn't in the business of winning... Toronto is in the business of promise for the future...

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01-15-2013, 12:30 PM
  #252
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Ok bud, no need to get worked up. You can't say no GM will give a 1st for him, just as we can't say every GM will have to give up a first for him.

Each situation is different; if they're about to make a major playoff push, a first could be worthless to a team that expects to go deep in the playoffs.

As another poster said; Gomez is overpaid by a large amount and under performs. Totally different situation, people agree that Luongo has great skill and a very friendly cap hit, just that his contract is long and risky.
His cap-hit is no longer friendly as the teams that take on his contract will be forced to lose some space after he retires or is traded once again. This is why I mentioned the cap recapture system.

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Let's assume - because nearly everyone is - that Luongo gets traded before this season starts to the Toronto Maple Leafs. The Canucks would be responsible for the cap benefit they enjoyed during the first two years of Luongo's deal.

Luongo's salary cap hit for the entire term of his contract is $5.33 million, but the Canucks paid him $10 million in 201011 and $6.716 million in 201112 for a total of $16,716,000. Luongo's salary cap hit for those two years was just $10.66 million. So the Canucks' cap benefit is the difference, or $6,049,334.

Now let's say Luongo plays seven years in Toronto and then retires, foregoing the final three years of his deal when he was scheduled to earn a total of $3.618 million or annual salaries of $1.618 million, $1 million and $1 million.

Once Luongo takes his early retirement - and he'd be 40 years old after completing the ninth year of his deal - the Canucks must pay the piper. That $6,049,334 cap benefit they enjoyed in the first two years of his deal is now divided by the number of years Luongo had left on his deal before retiring. So in this example you'd divide $6,049,334 by three and come up with $2,016,444. That's the salary cap hit the Canucks would be forced to take for each of the 2019-20, 2020-21 and 2021-22 seasons.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/L...#ixzz2I4Q39bmf
If anything, I'd rather not help the Canucks take space for their extremely absurd contract, I'm sure many GMs feel that way. I'm not sure why Gillis thinks he has the leverage to ask for "gold" when he should be enticing teams to take on contracts with his own gold.

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01-15-2013, 12:32 PM
  #253
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Even with the new cap recapture rule in place? I could see many people being detracted from trading for Luongo.
Yes, even with the recapture rule in place. At this point there appears to be multiple teams interested in his services regardless of that rule, the only issue preventing him from bring dealt is Gillis's exorbitant asking price.

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Luongo only becomes a Gomez situation if his play falls off the map. If Gomez put up the same 59 points he did his first year in Montreal, he would simply be overpaid, but he would still be one of Montreal's top scorers. His decline in play the past three years is amazingly bad.
That's probably what it would take for no teams to be interested in his services, I agree.

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01-15-2013, 12:39 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by JS19 View Post
His cap-hit is no longer friendly as the teams that take on his contract will be forced to lose some space after he retires or is traded once again. This is why I mentioned the cap recapture system.



If anything, I'd rather not help the Canucks take space for their extremely absurd contract, I'm sure many GMs feel that way. I'm not sure why Gillis thinks he has the leverage to ask for "gold" when he should be enticing teams to take on contracts with his own gold.
I understand how the system works, in a nutshell if he retires before his contract takes the big dip in difference of Salary Vs Caphit the team the Canucks would be penalized and potentially shared with other teams that acquired luongo's services. So essentially there is either no penalty to any team except the Canucks of possible 2 million cap hit, or a shared of 1 million.

Player buyouts can't be worse than that amount.

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01-15-2013, 12:39 PM
  #255
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I will forever be shocked that people think any GM gives a flip about MIGHT happen 7 years from now. It's not even on their radar. On their radar is the next 1-4 years and nothing more.

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01-15-2013, 12:45 PM
  #256
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I will forever be shocked that people think any GM gives a flip about MIGHT happen 7 years from now. It's not even on their radar. On their radar is the next 1-4 years and nothing more.
Exactly. GM's are in the business of winning in the here and now. What will likely amount to a minute cap penalty 7+ years from now is of little concern to GM's that want to win NOW. And for the foreseeable future Luongo's cap hit is not a concern.

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01-15-2013, 12:46 PM
  #257
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Sure, I'm not pressing for a Leafs 1st anyways.

I mean seriously a Luongo led Leafs at worst finish 20th. A player drafted 10th won't make an impact 3-4 seasons down the line for the Canucks.

Big deal. Much rather have NHL talent, preferably young.
If the Leafs don't want to deal Kadri or Gardiner.....you can take that first and move it along to another team that does have that kind of an asset in surplus.

Examples....Colin Wilson, Chris Stewart, ROR at forward.....Rundblad, Gormley, Matta, McBain etc. at D.

Getting a pick opens up a lot of options that don't exist when pulling from the Leafs roster and reserve lists.

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01-15-2013, 12:51 PM
  #258
Nash
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I will forever be shocked that people think any GM gives a flip about MIGHT happen 7 years from now. It's not even on their radar. On their radar is the next 1-4 years and nothing more.
Agreed. GM's can't really afford to look beyond 4 years as most don't stay put much longer than that. The NHL is a very win now driven market. There is a reason that Bettman tried to get a CBA in place that protected owners/GMs from themselves. It's almost always win now at all costs. Even rebuilding teams lose patience after 4 years. If the Oilers don't improve this year, I'm pretty certain that Tambellini's job is on the line, and he is in a situation where everybody has been okay with rebuilding through the draft for 4 years.

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01-15-2013, 12:58 PM
  #259
Lonny Bohonos
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Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
I agree... But it makes sense for teams, those who are in business of winning, to acquire Luongo... Toronto isn't in the business of winning... Toronto is in the business of promise for the future...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Exactly. GM's are in the business of winning in the here and now. What will likely amount to a minute cap penalty 7+ years from now is of little concern to GM's that want to win NOW. And for the foreseeable future Luongo's cap hit is not a concern.
One of you two isnt making sense.

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01-15-2013, 01:00 PM
  #260
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So basically you won't trade unless there is a safety net. I doubt you'll have many teams interested in that scenario.

If it is a conditional first that reduces the potential value by a substantial amount thus increasing what else TOR will have to pay. Cond. 1st + Kadri + Bozak/Franson, etc
Nonis wont even do Bozak and Kadri let alone our 1st in there as well. I wouldn't touch it either IMO.

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01-15-2013, 01:04 PM
  #261
Liferleafer
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Nonis wont even do Bozak and Kadri let alone our 1st in there as well. I wouldn't touch it either IMO.
I wouldn't go this far.....

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01-15-2013, 01:10 PM
  #262
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I wouldn't go this far.....
Just what I've seen over the last couple days on Leafs board. Could be wrong, I dunno...

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01-15-2013, 01:13 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Exactly. GM's are in the business of winning in the here and now. What will likely amount to a minute cap penalty 7+ years from now is of little concern to GM's that want to win NOW. And for the foreseeable future Luongo's cap hit is not a concern.
If whoever is the GM in Toronto at the time gives up futures for Luongo and the team does not make the playoffs, they will be in hot hot water. What happens in 7 years is not all that relevant, but what might happen certainly is. If the team gets locked into a 7 year deal (although it's really 10) and does not produce results almost immediately, there is going to be trouble. Trouble well beyond a short term deal.

So the gamble on Luongo for any GM becomes huge.

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01-15-2013, 01:14 PM
  #264
Skead
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I wouldn't go this far.....

Bozak + Kadri + Franson?

I have a bit of a soft spot for Franson being from BC.

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01-15-2013, 01:14 PM
  #265
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Bozak + Kadri + Franson?

I have a bit of a soft spot for Franson being from BC.

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01-15-2013, 01:17 PM
  #266
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Bozak + Kadri + Franson?

I have a bit of a soft spot for Franson being from BC.
I'd take a second instead of Franson. He looks too slow for our system.

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01-15-2013, 01:18 PM
  #267
I in the Eye
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One of you two isnt making sense.
I think the problem is the Toronto plan doesn't follow any common thread... The plan seems to make roster decisions to win now, and to make roster decisions for promise to win in the future... It's a great plan! Toronto makes decisions all over the place... It's almost like there are 6 people making decisions...

I'm sure that Nonis would love to win now... while keeping the promise to win in the future... It would satisfy the entire Toronto Group Think Tank... In other words, get Luongo cheap... That would follow the plan to win now and promise to win in the future! The only problem is, Gillis won't buy this... No money, no meatballs... Toronto can't get Luongo, IMHO... so, promise for the future this part of the plan is! Cheap (or free), fairly solid veteran backup is my vote for Toronto...

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01-15-2013, 01:19 PM
  #268
Skead
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I'd take a second instead of Franson. He looks to slow for our system.
True, but if Ballard flops this year we're likely buying him out or trading him. It'd be nice not to be forced into a trade / free agent scraps.

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01-15-2013, 01:20 PM
  #269
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His cap-hit is no longer friendly as the teams that take on his contract will be forced to lose some space after he retires or is traded once again. This is why I mentioned the cap recapture system.



If anything, I'd rather not help the Canucks take space for their extremely absurd contract, I'm sure many GMs feel that way. I'm not sure why Gillis thinks he has the leverage to ask for "gold" when he should be enticing teams to take on contracts with his own gold.
That is all well and good, BUT...if the writing is on the wall for Luongo and he's contemplating retirement with the 3 paltry salary years remaining on the deal, you want to know the easy way to get out of paying the recapture?

You buy him out. It's that simple. From what I understand, you buy out salary not cap hit and the buyout rules are the exact same as the last CBA (please somebody correct me if I'm wrong).

The last 3 years of the deal pay him $3.618m. The buyout is 2/3's of that, spread out over double the length, right?

So 2/3 of $3.618 = $2.39m as the buyout rate, spread over 6 years is under $400K of salary cap space.

The end of the contract is not near as bad as people want to believe, and if Luongo can get bought out for $2.39 million, instead of retiring and not getting that $2.39m, I can see his agent pushing for the buyout....it helps him, and the team(s) that benefitted from circumventing the salary cap.

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01-15-2013, 01:26 PM
  #270
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So I have stayed out of here for a few days, and just skimmed through it to catch up, and what do you know? We are still chasing our tails (both leaf and nuck fans).

Here it is, yes Gillis is still asking for too much. Rumor Kadri and Gardiner.

Yes Nonis is offering too little. Rumored Kadri Bozak 2nd. (don't buy the crap that it's less).

This to me is all posturing. both trying to play poker to get the best deal they can.

What we have to ask ourselves, and truth be told I don't know the answer, who is bluffing?

Both sides can make compelling arguments for their side. But I believe they still meet more in the middle, if a deal gets done, that is some respects makes so much sense. On the one hand, the leafs, honestly can't afford to tank again. They just can't, I honestly believe if they lose Lupul, they lose Kessel, and the cycle goes. They have to prove they can win.

Having said that, Nonis is right, they can't afford to pay a huge price, I get that. It make sense, and is the reason we are terrible trade partners.

The flip side, the Nucks, can afford to keep both this season, and hell, it might be stupid, but they could keep him beyond. But is it worth it? With Kes injured, and now maybe Booth, a strong argument can be made. How many more season do they have?

If a trade goes down, there has to be value, and it has to help both teams. I go back to what got us all traction before, something based around this, or like this:

Bozak - too many rumors with him in it, doesn't really interest me, but I understand it
Kadri - not a roster player, and the most valuable piece of trade
Finn - on the depth chart, at best, 3rd best d prospect, but still high value
Frattin - high potential, not sure where he fits on the leafs with their current winger depth, but very useful for both teams.

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01-15-2013, 01:28 PM
  #271
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I'd take a second instead of Franson. He looks too slow for our system.
Does he fit in our top 9 even now?

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01-15-2013, 01:31 PM
  #272
Reign Nateo
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If anything, I'd rather not help the Canucks take space for their extremely absurd contract, I'm sure many GMs feel that way. I'm not sure why Gillis thinks he has the leverage to ask for "gold" when he should be enticing teams to take on contracts with his own gold.
Sure, but the average NHL GM probably isn't as bitter and vindictive as the average rival fan. Maybe they actually want an All-Star caliber goalie instead of trying to stick it to the Canucks...

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01-15-2013, 01:34 PM
  #273
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Bozak + Kadri + Franson?

I have a bit of a soft spot for Franson being from BC.
Except he's a life-long Leaf's fan...

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01-15-2013, 01:34 PM
  #274
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What if we just keep Luongo and play him as a defensive defenseman? 6"3, 220lbs, right hand shot. Could be especially good on the PK.

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01-15-2013, 01:38 PM
  #275
Skead
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What if we just keep Luongo and play him as a defensive defenseman? 6"3, 220lbs, right hand shot. Could be especially good on the PK.
Are we allowed to keep him in his Goalie gear? that'd be epic.

We all know he can lay the hip checks


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