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01-15-2013, 12:38 PM
  #151
Lebowski
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Your argument is all about potential and what type of player he might be in the future. If he was already "that" player then I wouldn't even question his demands. Problem is... he isn't "that" player yet. Yes, he's a great player and potentially, he might become an even greater player... But he's not there yet. That's why, imo, he should get a smaller contract now so we can evaluate him further and THEN, once he TRULY proves his potential, we can give him what he wants. Just like Price. Just like Pacioretty. He's no different.
He's not *that* player yet, but he's already one hell of a player regardless. A legit number 1. And yes, when you throw a contract at someone (especially long term contracts), you need to take into account potential.

And yes, he's different than Price and Pac, in the sense that he DOESN'T want a bridge contract. Quite simple. You can hold him off for the first 10 games of the season if you want, hell make him wait until next season so he'll cave in! That'll teach him for sure! Problem is, if you push Subban to the limit he doesn't even want to play for your team, the Habs roster go from bad to beyond horrible.

You don't just gamble on an asset like him. He represents the core of your franchise for years to come. If he absolutely want a long term contract, just make sure the term is as long as possible and give him his money. Odds are he'll end up a bargain the longer the term is anyway.

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01-15-2013, 12:38 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Tyler Myers just signed a 5,5M contract, and you expect Subban to take 4,8m?

Nope. This is business. Subban, and especially Meehan, won't leave 4 millions on the table just for the sake of it.
Myers signed for 7 years though. I'm sure the 2 years Subban gets paid at the end in his prime will be for more than 5.5 mil/year.

Del Zotto signed for 2 years 5.1 mil total.

I'm sure Subban can fit in the middle somwhere 4 years and 4.5-4.8/year.

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01-15-2013, 12:41 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Myers signed for 7 years though. I'm sure the 2 years Subban gets paid at the end in his prime will be for more than 5.5 mil/year.

Del Zotto signed for 2 years 5.1 mil total.

I'm sure Subban can fit in the middle somwhere 4 years and 4.5-4.8/year.
What's the issue with signing him for 7 years?

4 years is quite possibly the worst possible term out there. Bergevin should either look at 2 years (which Subban doesn't want) or push the 6+ years.

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01-15-2013, 12:46 PM
  #154
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Moving on ??? Wow, some of you really worry me.
Don't worry... its like anyone here has any GM powers (obviously)

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01-15-2013, 12:50 PM
  #155
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Listened to Don Meehan on HC talk about the PK negotiations, it is definitely about wanting more money and term than Bergevin wants to offer. He said that they were far apart. I know he will eventually get signed but just for fun, who out there on a NHL roster would you trade PK for, straight up player for player?

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01-15-2013, 12:52 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Myers signed for 7 years though. I'm sure the 2 years Subban gets paid at the end in his prime will be for more than 5.5 mil/year.

Del Zotto signed for 2 years 5.1 mil total.

I'm sure Subban can fit in the middle somwhere 4 years and 4.5-4.8/year.

My gut tells me Subban is asking for 6 yr 36 M and that's why Meehan and Bergie are "far apart". What we as fans think is fair for Subban isn't necessarily what Subban thinks is fair for Subban

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01-15-2013, 12:53 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
He's not *that* player yet, but he's already one hell of a player regardless. A legit number 1. And yes, when you throw a contract at someone (especially long term contracts), you need to take into account potential.

And yes, he's different than Price and Pac, in the sense that he DOESN'T want a bridge contract. Quite simple. You can hold him off for the first 10 games of the season if you want, hell make him wait until next season so he'll cave in! That'll teach him for sure! Problem is, if you push Subban to the limit he doesn't even want to play for your team, the Habs roster go from bad to beyond horrible.

You don't just gamble on an asset like him. He represents the core of your franchise for years to come. If he absolutely want a long term contract, just make sure the term is as long as possible and give him his money. Odds are he'll end up a bargain the longer the term is anyway.
Why is he different? That's what I'm failing to understand. Why shouldn't he get a bridge contract? Why should he get everything he wants? "Give him his money"... I disagree. Yes, he's important to the team but that doesn't mean he gets to hold us hostage either.

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01-15-2013, 12:57 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Why is he different? That's what I'm failing to understand. Why shouldn't he get a bridge contract? Why should he get everything he wants? "Give him his money"... I disagree. Yes, he's important to the team but that doesn't mean he gets to hold us hostage either.
This makes no sense at all. If a player plays as a star and is paid in consequence how does he hold you hostage ?

Do Malkin or Crosby hold the Pens hostage ? And no i am not comparing Crosby to PK, they play different positions.

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01-15-2013, 12:58 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Why is he different? That's what I'm failing to understand. Why shouldn't he get a bridge contract? Why should he get everything he wants? "Give him his money"... I disagree. Yes, he's important to the team but that doesn't mean he gets to hold us hostage either.
Well said!

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01-15-2013, 12:59 PM
  #160
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We would miss Subban if he missed a week or two but really we have enough skill and PMD's to make up for it

Markov-Emelin
Kaberle-Gorges
Bouillon-Diaz

Weber

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Old
01-15-2013, 01:00 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
This makes no sense at all. If a player plays as a star and is paid in consequence how does he hold you hostage ?

Do Malkin or Crosby hold the Pens hostage ? And no i am not comparing Crosby to PK, they play different positions.
PK ain't no star yet lol

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01-15-2013, 01:01 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
We would miss Subban if he missed a week or two but really we have enough skill and PMD's to make up for it

Markov-Emelin
Kaberle-Gorges
Bouillon-Diaz

Weber
So basically we are giving up Subban for one of Diaz or Kaberle ?

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01-15-2013, 01:02 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
We would miss Subban if he missed a week or two but really we have enough skill and PMD's to make up for it

Markov-Emelin
Kaberle-Gorges
Bouillon-Diaz

Weber
Wow I smell a Stanley coming...

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Old
01-15-2013, 01:02 PM
  #164
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PK ain't no star yet lol
We get it, you don't like him. We read that previously.

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Old
01-15-2013, 01:04 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
We would miss Subban if he missed a week or two but really we have enough skill and PMD's to make up for it

Markov-Emelin
Kaberle-Gorges
Bouillon-Diaz

Weber
We would be guaranteed another high pick to compliment Galchenyuk with that top 6/7. PK brings a physical element that is underrated and very much lacking in our D (aside from Emelin obviously, and Gorges at times).

Also, even if Markov stays healthy, I'm not comfortable with Emelin on the top pair nor Bouillon or Diaz playing top 4 in case of injury.

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Old
01-15-2013, 01:06 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
We get it, you don't like him. We read that previously.
I am a fan of Subban. I love the guy and what he brings to the table. I like how he trained hard this summer to bulk up and be more ready for this year. Without him, our D isn't the same and I will never question that. What I'm saying is that he doesn't deserve a big contract YET.

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01-15-2013, 01:08 PM
  #167
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A lot of teams are searching for a top tier defensemen in the NHL. I am wondering if PK want really to play in Montreal. Why not trade him for a great winger and scorer. We have a lot of prospects at this position anyway.

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01-15-2013, 01:09 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
This makes no sense at all. If a player plays as a star and is paid in consequence how does he hold you hostage ?

Do Malkin or Crosby hold the Pens hostage ? And no i am not comparing Crosby to PK, they play different positions.
He's holding out for a ridiculous contract because he knows he's an important part of the team. He's being greedy. And the reason why you can't compare Crosby to PK is because they play different positions? Please tell me you're joking. You can't compare them because Crosby is on a whole different galaxy when it comes to talent/potential/skills/etc.

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Old
01-15-2013, 01:12 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Doby View Post
A lot of teams are searching for a top tier defensemen in the NHL. I am wondering if PK want really to play in Montreal. Why not trade him for a great winger and scorer. We have a lot of prospects at this position anyway.
No way we're getting a good top 6 forward for a #1D who doesn't want to sign a contract unless its apparently a Doughty-like contract as speculated


I'd say a 3 year deal at 4.75m-5.25m per is fair enough...after that he'll still be an RFA and we can renew his contract at the same price or give him a salary boost if his play's improved by then (which it will have)

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01-15-2013, 01:13 PM
  #170
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PK vs Tyler Myers, who's better ?

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Old
01-15-2013, 01:16 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
What's the issue with signing him for 7 years?

4 years is quite possibly the worst possible term out there. Bergevin should either look at 2 years (which Subban doesn't want) or push the 6+ years.
I totally agree. Four years puts him into UFA territory and it would probably be at the peak of his value. It's either 2 years or 6+ years for me as well.

If you average out guys like Carlson, Doughty and Myers who all signed long term contracts, the number is about $5.5 million per year. Adding in Karlsson brings the average up to about $5.75 million per year but Karlsson has won a Norris trophy so his salary skews the results.

Del Zotto is a good comparable for shorter term contracts after signing for two years at $5.15 million.

My guess is that PK gets about $5.25 million per year and it is the term that needs to be sorted out.

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Old
01-15-2013, 01:18 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
PK vs Tyler Myers, who's better ?
Subban

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Old
01-15-2013, 01:20 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
PK vs Tyler Myers, who's better ?
I think PK is better and I think the Sabres grossly overpaid for Myers.

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01-15-2013, 01:21 PM
  #174
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PK vs Tyler Myers, who's better ?
Not even close. Myers would be second tier.

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01-15-2013, 01:21 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
No way we're getting a good top 6 forward for a #1D who doesn't want to sign a contract unless its apparently a Doughty-like contract as speculated


I'd say a 3 year deal at 4.75m-5.25m per is fair enough...after that he'll still be an RFA and we can renew his contract at the same price or give him a salary boost if his play's improved by then (which it will have)
I think he will be a UFA in three years, will he not?

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