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2012 Redskins Thread IV (Playoffs?!?! Edition)

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Old
01-14-2013, 11:09 AM
  #401
RandyHolt
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I missed it, how did Fedex field cost the Seahawks a FG attempt? Maybe our field injured their kicker?

I thought they were going to try and kick that thing.

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01-14-2013, 11:27 AM
  #402
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I missed it, how did Fedex field cost the Seahawks a FG attempt? Maybe our field injured their kicker?

I thought they were going to try and kick that thing.
Yep. Kicker got hurt in DC.

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01-14-2013, 01:19 PM
  #403
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The WaPost seems to be pressing the Skins name change hard this year:

The Redskins name is really valuable, and really offensive. Here’s how to fix it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ix-it/?hpid=z3

The name as it currently stands should be chanaged, but I wouldn't change the name. Keep the name, but remove all references to Indians whether its the decal on the helmet or the words in the fight song. Slap the Lombardi R decal (minus the feathers) or the curly R that showed up in the Gibbs 1 era on the side of the helmut with a football shooting through the closed part of the R and keep the colors. Problem solved.

If someone asks what a Redskins stands for now all you have to do is point to the football on the helmut decal. Redskins=football

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01-14-2013, 01:31 PM
  #404
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Ah, thanks. I thought for sure the link would mention our turf lol.

I am glad the hawks lost.

About our name, changing our name won't undue the atrocities committed in the take over of our nation.

Washington Redskin Potato Heads

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01-14-2013, 05:27 PM
  #405
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I think its a top half (16) NFL o-line. The fact that we had almost zero injuries was mongo for their success as well, obviously.

I am not saying they are hall of famers (well, Williams could be over time), but they arent crap either. You are deriding them, which is ludicrous.
Not deriding them, your overrating them. They are average at best and can use upgrades on the entire right side. Yes, they were fortunate to have stayed healthy all year, but they also had a favorable system that didn't force them to get exposed. The question is, can they run the read option system considering RG3 will be coming off his second major surgery? If not, we'll see how good the oline really is.

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01-15-2013, 10:17 AM
  #406
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Another position that will be interesting to follow this offseason is TE. What do the Skins do about Sleepy Davis? Paulsen showed, IMO, to be more than adequate blocking and catching passes. And Niles Paul is a versatile guy that could make the transition to TE completely next year.

So what to do with Sleepy? I don't see the Skins using the franchise on him. More like a 1 year incentive laden deal or he walks.
Let him go. We have other areas we need to spend the money. TE is not one of them.

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01-15-2013, 10:29 AM
  #407
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Not deriding them, your overrating them. They are average at best and can use upgrades on the entire right side. Yes, they were fortunate to have stayed healthy all year, but they also had a favorable system that didn't force them to get exposed. The question is, can they run the read option system considering RG3 will be coming off his second major surgery? If not, we'll see how good the oline really is.
I overrate the offensive line that helped produce the #1 ranked rushing offense in the league, by calling them top half (50%) in the league--

Yet you are NOT deriding them by disagreeing with me (thusly accusing them of being lower half of the league, at best).

Please. Anyone that tries to claim the #1 rushing team in the NFL has a bad offensive line is deriding said offensive line.

And they would be WRONG

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01-15-2013, 10:41 AM
  #408
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The problem with the offensive line for most of us was always that it was not good enough to protect RGIII in this style of offense.

Well...

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01-15-2013, 11:00 AM
  #409
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The problem with the offensive line for most of us was always that it was not good enough to protect RGIII in this style of offense.

Well...
I guess I simply didn't see that. Yes he got hit from time to time while in the pocket...but so did all the quarterbacks. Russ Wilson was running for his life most of the time, as was Luck.

I can name a bunch of O-lines worse than the Skins (Eagles, Cowboys, Bears, Cardinals, Jets, Jags, Chargers, Chiefs, Raiders, Bills, Rams, Lions, Browns, Titans, Bucs, Saints...off the top of my head). It can be argued for many more (Giants, Steelers, Dolphins, Colts, Packers, Panthers) as well.

I would say the only lines that are for sure "better" than the Redskins -- Niners, Seahawks, Vikings, Texans, Broncos, Patriots, Ravens, Bengals, Falcons.

Redskins o-line was anywhere from 10th to 15th, in my view. It's obviously subjective, but the "non-subjective" part would be the statistics....and Redskins were #1 in rushing yards, 5th in total yards, 12th against in sacks. A lot of that is RG3, but dont scoff at the O-line everyone.

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01-15-2013, 11:07 AM
  #410
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The problem with the offensive line for most of us was always that it was not good enough to protect RGIII in this style of offense.

Well...
Granted, I didn't watch all of the Skins' games, but the majority of the big hits I saw him take were outside the pocket. I don't know how much of the blame the OL can take on those types of plays.

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01-15-2013, 11:15 AM
  #411
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Please. Anyone that tries to claim the #1 rushing team in the NFL has a bad offensive line is deriding said offensive line.
Would it be possible to be a good run blocking group but a poor pass blocking one and also that Griffin's wonderful skills made them look better than they really were in both areas and end up with deceiving numbers overall?

I'm not saying that is or isn't the case but wouldn't that be possible?

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01-15-2013, 11:42 AM
  #412
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I overrate the offensive line that helped produce the #1 ranked rushing offense in the league, by calling them top half (50%) in the league--

Yet you are NOT deriding them by disagreeing with me (thusly accusing them of being lower half of the league, at best).

Please. Anyone that tries to claim the #1 rushing team in the NFL has a bad offensive line is deriding said offensive line.

And they would be WRONG
Don't know why you only use rushing as a barometer that an oline is good, while neglecting scheme and pass protection. The oline allowed a lot of hits in the pocket among the worst olines in the league. ESPN also had a advanced stat on sportcenter saying RG3 took the most percent of hits in the pocket on traditional dropbacks(27.2% iirc), more than guys like Cam Newton and Aaron Rodgers.

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01-15-2013, 11:42 AM
  #413
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Yes Millhaus, and Chris Chester basically said as such this offseason. Saying we must get better at basic pass protection.

Is there a chance that the "great" RB's Mike creates, that the same can be said - that his system creates great linemen, or the entire line, as well?

Trent "The Hitman' Williams aside, I suspect the other 4 are all very much dependent on the system to survive. While it may be true of any OL, perhaps its more true of Mike.

Dominant run blocking, very questionable pass protection I would grade them middle of the pack, only, its the way Mike designed it to be. When the offense is rolling, they don't need to pass protect (play action makes their life easy), so we cannot hold that against them as much as other teams.

I personally prefer a more balanced approach to creating an OL. So when we are down 10 4 minutes left, we don't need the RG3 superhuman scramble to win games for us.

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01-15-2013, 11:53 AM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Don't know why you only use rushing as a barometer that an oline is good, while neglecting scheme and pass protection. The oline allowed a lot of hits in the pocket among the worst olines in the league. ESPN also had a advanced stat on sportcenter saying RG3 took the most percent of hits in the pocket on traditional dropbacks(27.2% iirc), more than guys like Cam Newton and Aaron Rodgers.
I am not. Hence why I stated top 50%. I diodnt ever claim them as being top o-line. I simply took umbrance to your claim that they weren't good, or bottom half of the league.

By almost any metrics, they are not bottom half of the league. You simply dont want to give any credit to a playoff teams offensive line, which is stupid.

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01-15-2013, 11:54 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Would it be possible to be a good run blocking group but a poor pass blocking one and also that Griffin's wonderful skills made them look better than they really were in both areas and end up with deceiving numbers overall?

I'm not saying that is or isn't the case but wouldn't that be possible?
Of course it is. That characterization is probably fair. But that also doesnt make them a bad offensive line, does it?

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01-15-2013, 12:10 PM
  #416
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Yes Millhaus, and Chris Chester basically said as such this offseason. Saying we must get better at basic pass protection.

Is there a chance that the "great" RB's Mike creates, that the same can be said - that his system creates great linemen, or the entire line, as well?

Trent "The Hitman' Williams aside, I suspect the other 4 are all very much dependent on the system to survive. While it may be true of any OL, perhaps its more true of Mike.

Dominant run blocking, very questionable pass protection I would grade them middle of the pack, only, its the way Mike designed it to be. When the offense is rolling, they don't need to pass protect (play action makes their life easy), so we cannot hold that against them as much as other teams.

I personally prefer a more balanced approach to creating an OL. So when we are down 10 4 minutes left, we don't need the RG3 superhuman scramble to win games for us.
LOL. Most teams are in trouble if down 10pts with 4min left. "Superhuman something" is going to be needed to win that situation....

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01-15-2013, 12:15 PM
  #417
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I am not. Hence why I stated top 50%. I diodnt ever claim them as being top o-line. I simply took umbrance to your claim that they weren't good, or bottom half of the league.

By almost any metrics, they are not bottom half of the league. You simply dont want to give any credit to a playoff teams offensive line, which is stupid.
What does that have anything to do? Pittsburgh and Green Bay won Super Bowls with subpar olines, though they have great QB's, they took a pounding behind their olines. I give credit to guys like Trent and Will Montgomery, Lichtensteiger didn't look quite the same pre-injury and as I've said that right side should be revamped.

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01-15-2013, 12:15 PM
  #418
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LOL. Most teams are in trouble if down 10pts with 4min left. "Superhuman something" is going to be needed to win that situation....
Sure, but you usually get a gift prevent score, and a chance at an onside with mere seconds left, quite often actually.

Watching Cousins late against Seattle, it was exactly what I saw pretty much the entire year anytime we did a 7 step drop. No pocket, no time to throw deep, a near complete collapse. Under duress.

Things got better once Rabach was relieved of duty, at least we get blitz pickup calls made and met.

But problems remain. Do you think Chester was inaccurate in his assessment of where we need to improve next year?

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01-15-2013, 12:39 PM
  #419
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Based on my experience how an O-line run blocks is more of an indicator of the quality of the O-line than pass blocking. Primarily because when an O-line is run blocking the O-line is primarily responsible for the running play to either succeed or fail. On the flip side, during a pass play, multiple factors determine if a pass play is successful. Yes the O-line's ability to hold their blocks (for how long depends on down and distance) is key, but also the WR's ability to get open is a factor, as well as the QB's ability to make the right read in regards to the defensive secondary's positioning.

In regards to the end of the Seahawks game, there were a number of factors working againt the O-line when it came to protecting the QB. Very good and aggressive CB's that could and did disrupt the Skins WR's routes, a back up rookie QB who had little to no practice time leading up to the game, a Seahawks defensive front that pinned their ears back, and the well established poor condition of the playing surface. Add all that up and the last minutes of the Seahawks game was predictable.

Take just about any O-line from around the NFL and put them in there for the final minutes of the Seahawks game and the outcome would more than likely be the same. Sure a bigger O-line that is better at pass blocking could of held off Seahawk pass rusher an extra 2-3 seconds, but the timing between the WR's and Cousins was disrupted by the Seahawks secondary on every snap. No garuntee Cousins could of successfully led the team downfield to score.

Now take Griffin out early in the 3rd, and give Cousins a quarter to get acclimated to the game, the Skins would of had a better chance to either sustain drives and hold on to the lead, or come from behind. Obviously that didn't happen, and regardless of what type of O-line the Skins had, the Skins fate was sealed.

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01-15-2013, 12:51 PM
  #420
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The problem with the offensive line for most of us was always that it was not good enough to protect RGIII in this style of offense.

Well...
What the hell does that mean exactly?


You're suggesting an offensive line would have prevented his injuries? Poppycock....

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01-15-2013, 12:58 PM
  #421
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Sure, but you usually get a gift prevent score, and a chance at an onside with mere seconds left, quite often actually.

Watching Cousins late against Seattle, it was exactly what I saw pretty much the entire year anytime we did a 7 step drop. No pocket, no time to throw deep, a near complete collapse. Under duress.

Things got better once Rabach was relieved of duty, at least we get blitz pickup calls made and met.

But problems remain. Do you think Chester was inaccurate in his assessment of where we need to improve next year?
If you're basing your analysis off of that scenario, when they were down and the D knew they had to throw it, so they could throw all they had at the pass rush, well it's not really a fair analysis.

Quick blurb from ESPN on evaluating O-lines....

Unless you watch every snap of every game, it's nigh on impossible to evaluate offensive line play. You can infer some things from numbers, but that can often lead to incorrect conclusions.

For example, logic would say that Aaron Rodgers getting sacked the most of any quarterback means he has the worst pass-protecting line, right? Except that conclusion overlooks the fact eight of those sacks were due to Rodgers' decisions and another two were the results of skill position players not picking up the pass rush. It also doesn't consider the fact Rodgers is guilty of having the sixth-highest average time to sack (from when the ball is snapped) of any player in the league.


Nobody is saying the line can't improve, but heavy criticism of them today is misplaced IMO.

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01-15-2013, 01:10 PM
  #422
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What the hell does that mean exactly?


You're suggesting an offensive line would have prevented his injuries? Poppycock....
I'm suggesting exactly what I suggested before the season. RGIII is worthless to us playing a style that we can't protect him in. We can't protect him in the style he's playing and we can't win playing another style.

If you're going to expose him this much, you need a much better O-line or else he's gonna get killed (like he did) and he becomes worthless to us.

If your argument is "anyone would've gotten hurt regardless of the o-line playing this way" well then that seems like an even bigger issue, does it not?

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01-15-2013, 01:16 PM
  #423
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I'm suggesting exactly what I suggested before the season. RGIII is worthless to us playing a style that we can't protect him in. We can't protect him in the style he's playing and we can't win playing another style.

If you're going to expose him this much, you need a much better O-line or else he's gonna get killed (like he did) and he becomes worthless to us.

If your argument is "anyone would've gotten hurt regardless of the o-line playing this way" well then that seems like an even bigger issue, does it not?

RG3 is going to play this style and the greatest offensive line in the world isn't going to protect him from making risky (or even bad) decisions and putting himself at risk. I haven't seen a single credible source in sports recently criticize the Skins O-line for "allowing" RG3 to get severely injured. I HAVE however seen people criticizing the playcalling, the coach, and even RG3 himself.

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01-15-2013, 05:38 PM
  #424
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Sure, but you usually get a gift prevent score, and a chance at an onside with mere seconds left, quite often actually.

Watching Cousins late against Seattle, it was exactly what I saw pretty much the entire year anytime we did a 7 step drop. No pocket, no time to throw deep, a near complete collapse. Under duress.

Things got better once Rabach was relieved of duty, at least we get blitz pickup calls made and met.

But problems remain. Do you think Chester was inaccurate in his assessment of where we need to improve next year?
Improvement is mandatory in all facets, from all the different departments of the team. Of course he's going to say that.

So you also believe that we have a poor offensive line?

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01-15-2013, 06:43 PM
  #425
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Improvement is mandatory in all facets, from all the different departments of the team. Of course he's going to say that.

So you also believe that we have a poor offensive line?
No and its almost exactly as Mike prefers it. I am sure he gives it an A.

Top grade for running
low grade for traditional pocket pro

Above middle of the pack roughly overall - but ignoring our design is to make the OL's job easy with unstoppable play action to pass. D cant rush well when they think we will run.

So overall I would grade our OL 10 overall or so. But all OL are created differently and ours is simply not made to bulldoze short yardage, nor to pass pro. Its mike's design and doesn't compare easily to other OL.


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