HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

P.K Subban Thread 2.0

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-15-2013, 03:10 PM
  #201
Lebowski
Registered User
 
Lebowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
It's not because the Sabres crazy owner accepted to give that fat contract to Myers that Bergevin and Molson have to do the same.
Myers will be worth that contract soon enough. They're paying him for his projected upside as well. Not only that, but if he can only maintain the level he had in his rookie season, he would be at about market value with a 5,5M contract.

Also, it's more a matter of comparison than does Subban deserve this money or not. In a perfect world, Bergevin would be able to get him with John Carlsson type money, but at this point, I'd be very surprised if that happened.

Lebowski is online now  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:10 PM
  #202
ClasslessGuy
Registered User
 
ClasslessGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Longueuil, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
David Krejci and both fanbases and HF Boards explode.
it's a fair deal and I like Krejci as a player but it's not the type of player we need right now

ClasslessGuy is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:10 PM
  #203
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,938
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
We need Subban far more than he needs the Habs. And I'm sure Meehan knows that.
This is somewhat true, but PK needs the Habs to earn money...usually most organizations don't take kindly to a guy coming off his ELC to start dictating to the team...Meehan should know better...get your client the best deal possible for 2-3 yrs and sign him up...

BLONG7 is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:10 PM
  #204
Coach Parker
Stanley Cup Champion
 
Coach Parker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,315
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
He won't trade him. He will just let him sit at home for the rest of the season. PK and his agent cannot do nothing. He won't be UFA before another 5 years.
Double negative there, but I get the point.

We said the same about the Kessel situation in Boston. You are correct until Meehan finds someone who will sign him to an offer-sheet. Remeber, he is talking to every GM right now that will listen about Subban.

Coach Parker is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:11 PM
  #205
Lebowski
Registered User
 
Lebowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BxN View Post
I hope Bergevin makes him sit all year. PK is being dumb now.

If PK thinks he's better and more important to his team than Del Zotto is with the Rangers then why did Del Zotto have the same production (or slightly more) than PK while PK had more icetime and PP time?

3M/y for 2 years. Then, if you deserve it, you'll get your big contract.

Hey PK, you're popular but you're not a God yet. Smarten up, kid.
Did you just insinuate PK was a comparable defenseman to MDZ because of their offensive production?

Lebowski is online now  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:11 PM
  #206
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
This is somewhat true, but PK needs the Habs to earn money...usually most organizations don't take kindly to a guy coming off his ELC to start dictating to the team...Meehan should know better...get your client the best deal possible for 2-3 yrs and sign him up...
The Flyers will gladly throw money at Subban.

Et le But is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:13 PM
  #207
Habtchum*
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
Double negative there, but I get the point.

We said the same about the Kessel situation in Boston. You are correct until Meehan finds someone who will sign him to an offer-sheet. Remeber, he is talking to every GM right now that will listen about Subban.
You think that ? After a lockout like we just had. No GM will make a move. Not this half season at least.

And IF it ever happens, Habs gonna sign him and trade him for lots of assets.

Habtchum* is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:14 PM
  #208
Capitano
Registered User
 
Capitano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
Double negative there, but I get the point.

We said the same about the Kessel situation in Boston. You are correct until Meehan finds someone who will sign him to an offer-sheet. Remeber, he is talking to every GM right now that will listen about Subban.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
The Flyers will gladly throw money at Subban.
I'm not worried in the least about this. Bottom line MB holds the hammer because PK is an RFA...we always have the right to match.

Capitano is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:15 PM
  #209
Coach Parker
Stanley Cup Champion
 
Coach Parker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,315
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
The Flyers will gladly throw money at Subban.
They haven't yet, but they were the team that immediately came to mind when I thought of an offer-sheet. Struck out on Weber but have the money, the means, the picks and the need for exactly what he brings to the table. They have proven to be a team who isn't afraid to sign players to offer-sheets (Kesler and Weber) and it sounds like the agent is putting it out there that the talks are not progressing.

Coach Parker is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:16 PM
  #210
YMCMBeaulieu
A$AP MICHEL
 
YMCMBeaulieu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,217
vCash: 500
Was stupid to not sign him before the lockout, almost everyone expected the lockout to last a while and clearly once it ended there would be minimal time to sign Subban before our first game. The team needs Subban to make the playoffs and he and his agent have tons of leverage right now so obviously they would aim high (both in $ and term).

He should've been priority along with Price and signed at the beginning of the summer instead of Bergevin worrying about signing 100 guys to the front office and making up random jobs.

YMCMBeaulieu is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:16 PM
  #211
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 21,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habster33 View Post
PK ain't no star yet lol
Funny considering he made the ALL STAR rookie team. PK is a star player. He plays the most on our team even as just a sophomore, was used as a #1 Dman 3/4 of his career so far with us, plays in every possible situation efficiently , will be on the ice with one goal down in the dying seconds or one goal up to defend, and to it all off, he has that star charisma. He is a star. What he isn't yet is a superstar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
He's holding out for a ridiculous contract because he knows he's an important part of the team. He's being greedy. And the reason why you can't compare Crosby to PK is because they play different positions? Please tell me you're joking. You can't compare them because Crosby is on a whole different galaxy when it comes to talent/potential/skills/etc.
He's not being greedy, he recognizes what he has contributed, he knows he is a huge marketing asset for the team, and they make a ton of cash off him. His game will only excel as time goes on. He looks at other players like Myers or Carlson and sees no reason as to why he shouldn't get paid around the same amount. Not to mention, he's our best Dman, and the highest paid Dman on our team gets 5.75M. Need I mentioned that this Dman (and I'm a huge fan of Markov) has barely played in 3 years?

And yes, you can't compare Crosby to PK because they play different positions. Shall we place Crosby on defense and see who's in a different galaxy? But yes, you are right on some level, Crosby is arguably the best forward in the NHL. PK isn't the best Dman. But PK isn't asking for close to 9M in cash either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Your argument is all about potential and what type of player he might be in the future. If he was already "that" player then I wouldn't even question his demands. Problem is... he isn't "that" player yet. Yes, he's a great player and potentially, he might become an even greater player... But he's not there yet. That's why, imo, he should get a smaller contract now so we can evaluate him further and THEN, once he TRULY proves his potential, we can give him what he wants. Just like Price. Just like Pacioretty. He's no different.
But that's completely irrelevant. What are the chances that PK doesn't become ''That'' player?? Do you really think PK will just be a 3.5-4M dollar type of player in the next couple years?? Just to be clear here, Kaberle makes 4.25M. Gorges just under 4M. It doesn't matter that he's a RFA, he's well worth more than those guys.

As for Price and MaxPac, it's two completely different situations and it's already been explained.
Price, coming off his ELC, lost his starting position to Halak. He only won 13 games that season and watched the POs from the bench. He was a huge question mark and plenty of people wanted to trade him over Halak. Not sure how he could argue a huge deal.
MaxPac had done nothing offensively except for half a season and then suffered a huge injury. His career was even at risk at some point before knowing he'd make a full recovery. But prior to those 37 games, he had done nothing offensively. Again, like Price, not sure how he could argue that he deserved a huge deal.

PK on the other hand, was asked to take over Markov's role in the POs right off the bat. He did an excellent job. In his rookie year, with Markov again out, he was used as the #2 D behind Hammer, but by mid season, he was the one facing the top oppositions, used as #1. Last year, more of the same. He is used on the top PK unit, top PP unit, and is the top pairing versus the toughest opposition at ES. He is used as much as 28min in some games. He's had a great rookie year with 38pts, and despite having what many consider a more average year last season, he still managed 36pts. Needless to say, this guy is solid and performed very well considering the situation he was put in. Completely incomparable to where MaxPac and Price were after their ELC. He is way ahead of where those guys were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Why is he different? That's what I'm failing to understand. Why shouldn't he get a bridge contract? Why should he get everything he wants? "Give him his money"... I disagree. Yes, he's important to the team but that doesn't mean he gets to hold us hostage either.
He is not going to hold you hostage. He will be #1, and maybe #2 if Markov gets back to his prime days. Otherwise, he'll be our star Dman, and at 23 with his work ethic, he'll only get better.
A guy like Gomez took you hostage. A guy like PK will never hold you hostage. Are you actually doubting that he'll get better?? Heck, even if he doesn't get better, he'll still be pretty darn solid. He'll be a bit overpaid, but still perform well and hold a very important place on our team. The only way he holds us hostage is if he actually declines. Is that what you think will happen?? Really??

Kriss E is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:17 PM
  #212
Lebowski
Registered User
 
Lebowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
They haven't yet, but they were the team that immediately came to mind when I thought of an offer-sheet. Struck out on Weber but have the money, the means, the picks and the need for exactly what he brings to the table. They have proven to be a team who isn't afraid to sign players to offer-sheets (Kesler and Weber) and it sounds like the agent is putting it out there that the talks are not progressing.
Unless they offer something realllly crazy, I doubt Bergevin won't match. Trading Subban for a couple of low first rounders isn't a smart move.

Lebowski is online now  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:18 PM
  #213
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
They haven't yet, but they were the team that immediately came to mind when I thought of an offer-sheet. Struck out on Weber but have the money, the means, the picks and the need for exactly what he brings to the table. They have proven to be a team who isn't afraid to sign players to offer-sheets (Kesler and Weber) and it sounds like the agent is putting it out there that the talks are not progressing.
I think the Flyers are brave/reckless/insane enough to give Subban that Weber money too.

Et le But is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:18 PM
  #214
Habtchum*
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Chainz View Post
Was stupid to not sign him before the lockout, almost everyone expected the lockout to last a while and clearly once it ended there would be minimal time to sign Subban before our first game. The team needs Subban to make the playoffs and he and his agent have tons of leverage right now so obviously they would aim high (both in $ and term).

He should've been priority along with Price and signed at the beginning of the summer instead of Bergevin worrying about signing 100 guys to the front office and making up random jobs.
Sorry, but no player is more important than a team.

Habtchum* is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:20 PM
  #215
Coach Parker
Stanley Cup Champion
 
Coach Parker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,315
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
You think that ? After a lockout like we just had. No GM will make a move. Not this half season at least.

And IF it ever happens, Habs gonna sign him and trade him for lots of assets.
I would imagine that the Habs would indeed match or trade him. I thought the exact same with Kessel but when Burke stepped in at the 11th hour and forced the trade there was little Boston could do.

On the bright side, it turned out really well for Boston. I'd imagine Philly would force the issue if they believe their defence is weak this year and they could have a shot and getting Subban for the long-term. If Montreal was to match, they couldn't move him until next season at the minimum. What makes it worse is that I believe you cannot move a player once you match his RFA offer for 365 days so that would meant that they couldn't move him in the off-season but rather would have to move him in February 2014.

All of that is hypothetical as I believe he signs before the weekend unless there is a GM who is ready to put an offer on the table after seeing his defence in this weeks training camp.

Coach Parker is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:21 PM
  #216
Capitano
Registered User
 
Capitano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Chainz View Post
Was stupid to not sign him before the lockout, almost everyone expected the lockout to last a while and clearly once it ended there would be minimal time to sign Subban before our first game. The team needs Subban to make the playoffs and he and his agent have tons of leverage right now so obviously they would aim high (both in $ and term).

He should've been priority along with Price and signed at the beginning of the summer instead of Bergevin worrying about signing 100 guys to the front office and making up random jobs.
I don't think Subban or his agent have any leverage. We finished 3rd last last year with PK in the lineup. Not his fault, I like PK, but it's the truth. There are no expectations for our team this year imo...playoffs are attainable for sure, like they are for almost every team in the league until the last 2 weeks of the season.

PK will sit as long as it takes for him to sign the deal MB wants.

Capitano is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:23 PM
  #217
Nakamura
私はクソの葉を憎む
 
Nakamura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Japan
Posts: 1,098
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Did you just insinuate PK was a comparable defenseman to MDZ because of their offensive production?
In a way, yes.. to make a point. PK is a complete player, of course. So is MDZ.. in a different way. But if he's so much more talented than Del Zotto.. and with all the icetime and PP time he had, why did he produce less?

He's good. But he sees himself a little too big at the moment.

Nakamura is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:24 PM
  #218
thom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,735
vCash: 500
So not at training camp wants to get paid for future good works so are we looking at a norris trophy winner?Yes he has immense talent but he does not seem to be popular in dressing room

thom is online now  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:25 PM
  #219
Coach Parker
Stanley Cup Champion
 
Coach Parker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,315
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I think the Flyers are brave/reckless/insane enough to give Subban that Weber money too.
Isn't that the funny thing about Philly? They toss out money and offer-sheets without consequence. They use the offer-sheet regularly as a tool to improve their team and no one has gotten revenge on them for it like we all speculate. If they were ready to toss that kind of money to solidify their defence why wouldn't they do the same again with a younger player and a smaller amount?

Philly will concern me every time a RFA comes up. That being said, Meehan needs a dance partner to bounce numbers off of and now that the CBA is clear and owners have an even better idea of the pie it would be in the best interest of Montreal to sign him now and avoid the situation they could be forced into.

Coach Parker is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:26 PM
  #220
Hannibal
Brandon Prust FTW
 
Hannibal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,273
vCash: 500
I don't know, but i have a feeling that we're gonna see PK get trade if a agrement isn't reach for the first game...

Hannibal is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:28 PM
  #221
Capitano
Registered User
 
Capitano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
I don't know, but i have a feeling that we're gonna see PK get trade if a agrement isn't reach for the first game...
If there is a deal that MB sees as an improvement then that is why they pay him and not us hehe.

But personally I think PK will sit until he signs a deal with us. I think him signing before the year is unlikely at this point unless they sign him to a 1 year deal and do the whole thing over again in the summer.

Capitano is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:29 PM
  #222
YMCMBeaulieu
A$AP MICHEL
 
YMCMBeaulieu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,217
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
I don't think Subban or his agent have any leverage. We finished 3rd last last year with PK in the lineup. Not his fault, I like PK, but it's the truth. There are no expectations for our team this year imo...playoffs are attainable for sure, like they are for almost every team in the league until the last 2 weeks of the season.

PK will sit as long as it takes for him to sign the deal MB wants.
We finished 3rd last with Price and Pacioretty in the lineup, does that mean they didn't have any leverage in their negotiations?

With Markov and Gionta back, more depth added, and a healthy lineup our team definitely has the potential to make the playoffs with Subban in the lineup. Every game matters this year so the longer Bergevin waits to sign him the worse the Habs' chances are of making the playoffs.

Lots of fans are currently pissed off about missing almost half the year due to the lockout so I doubt they'd be happy if one of its most popular players is sitting out this year.

YMCMBeaulieu is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:30 PM
  #223
WeThreeKings
Registered User
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,744
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Quote:
Originally Posted by BxN View Post
I hope Bergevin makes him sit all year. PK is being dumb now.

If PK thinks he's better and more important to his team than Del Zotto is with the Rangers then why did Del Zotto have the same production (or slightly more) than PK while PK had more icetime and PP time?

3M/y for 2 years. Then, if you deserve it, you'll get your big contract.

Hey PK, you're popular but you're not a God yet. Smarten up, kid.
His agent is Meehan. Not the easiest guy to negotiate with.

WeThreeKings is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:31 PM
  #224
Habtchum*
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Chainz View Post
We finished 3rd last with Price and Pacioretty in the lineup, does that mean they didn't have any leverage in their negotiations?

With Markov and Gionta back, more depth added, and a healthy lineup our team definitely has the potential to make the playoffs with Subban in the lineup. Every game matters this year so the longer Bergevin waits to sign him the worse the Habs' chances are of making the playoffs.

Lots of fans are currently pissed off about missing almost half the year due to the lockout so I doubt they'd be happy if one of its most popular players is sitting out this year.
Blame it on Subban and his agent then.

Habtchum* is offline  
Old
01-15-2013, 03:32 PM
  #225
Capitano
Registered User
 
Capitano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Chainz View Post
We finished 3rd last with Price and Pacioretty in the lineup, does that mean they didn't have any leverage in their negotiations?

With Markov and Gionta back, more depth added, and a healthy lineup our team definitely has the potential to make the playoffs with Subban in the lineup. Every game matters this year so the longer Bergevin waits to sign him the worse the Habs' chances are of making the playoffs.

Lots of fans are currently pissed off about missing almost half the year due to the lockout so I doubt they'd be happy if one of its most popular players is sitting out this year.
Price and Pacioretty are already signed. Makes no sense.

Personally i care about winning...and MB is the man making the decisions. He has a philosophy and i trust him to make the right decision at this point. He holds the hammer here, PK has nothing like I said. And it's likely that MB wants to sign PK to a deal that will still keep him an RFA so he holds the hammer again in the next round of negotiations. That's the way it works. PK would have WAY more leverage if we were a team contending for the cup, but even through my hab fan eyes I can't see that

Capitano is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.