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P.K Subban Thread 2.0

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:35 PM
  #226
Frozenice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
Price and Pacioretty are already signed. Makes no sense.

Personally i care about winning...and MB is the man making the decisions. He has a philosophy and i trust him to make the right decision at this point. He holds the hammer here, PK has nothing like I said. And it's likely that MB wants to sign PK to a deal that will still keep him an RFA so he holds the hammer again in the next round of negotiations. That's the way it works.
Until Philly or Toronto offer-sheet him.

Sooner or later it's going to happen, I find it unlikely Subban is willing to miss much of the season.

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:36 PM
  #227
EveryDay
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Woud you be interested in one of thoses trades?

to Phi
Coburn + Couturier for Gionta + Subban

to NYI
Hamonic + Moulson + 1st for Gionta + Subban + 2nd

to Winnipeg
Kane + Bogosian for Subban + Bourque + 2nd

to Wash
Alzner + Carlson for Subban + ?

to Chicago
Subban for Seabrook

to Anahein
Sbisa + Ryan for Subban + Gionta

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:37 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
What's the matter anyway with the bridge contract?
I think the point of a bridge contract is to prevent a young player from having a status within the team that he shouldn't be having at this point in his career, and I think it is especially important in PK's case.

I think that if you compare a 2yrs/9M and a 6yrs/36M contract, the later implies :
- Much more pressure, especially in Montreal
- Limit the ability of the coach to punish him (bench him or put him in the stands)
- Limit the influence that the veterans of the team can have on him (especially given that they have much less years left on their contracts, which make them more movable if their is a clash in the room)
- He should be part of the leadership group of the team

As a fan, I love PK and I think he is worth a big contract based on his performances, but as an organization, given PK's personality (larger than life, hard to control, etc), I don't think he is seen as a leader in the room, and I wouldn't want to give him the feeling of immunity/invincibility that would come with a big contract...

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:37 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by BxN View Post
But if he's so much more talented than Del Zotto.. and with all the icetime and PP time he had, why did he produce less?
Supporting cast?
Questionable coaching strategies?
Sophomore blues?

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:38 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by EveryDay View Post
Woud you be interested in one of thoses trades?

to Phi
Coburn + Couturier for Gionta + Subban

to NYI
Hamonic + Moulson + 1st for Gionta + Subban + 2nd

to Winnipeg
Kane + Bogosian for Subban + Bourque + 2nd

to Wash
Alzner + Carlson for Subban + ?

to Chicago
Subban for Seabrook

to Anahein
Sbisa + Ryan for Subban + Gionta
I like these two.

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:38 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryDay View Post
Woud you be interested in one of thoses trades?

to Phi
Coburn + Couturier for Gionta + Subban

to NYI
Hamonic + Moulson + 1st for Gionta + Subban + 2nd

to Winnipeg
Kane + Bogosian for Subban + Bourque


to Wash
Alzner + Carlson for Subban + ?

to Chicago
Subban for Seabrook

to Anahein
Sbisa + Ryan for Subban + Gionta
That one, but i doubt that will happen. But if we trade Subban, that's a deal i would be looking to get.

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:39 PM
  #232
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Ugh, I just wish we knew where both sides are at so we know who's being unreasonable. If Subban wants Doughty money, than it's obviously him. If Bergevin wants to give him MDZ motto, than it's him.

Hopefully they get this solved by Saturday. I don't want to start the season off with a loss because PK wasn't there.

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:41 PM
  #233
Lebowski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BxN View Post
In a way, yes.. to make a point. PK is a complete player, of course. So is MDZ.. in a different way. But if he's so much more talented than Del Zotto.. and with all the icetime and PP time he had, why did he produce less?

He's good. But he sees himself a little too big at the moment.
What do you compare their contract then, if you acknowledge yourself that Subban is on a different level?

Production wise, I think it's simple to explain. Subban played on an inept power-play on the last seeded team in the east while MDZ played on one of the East top contender.

I don't know if he sees himself too big. To be honest, we don't know much, if at all, about the whole negotiation process.

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:41 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Ugh, I just wish we knew where both sides are at so we know who's being unreasonable. If Subban wants Doughty money, than it's obviously him. If Bergevin wants to give him MDZ motto, than it's him.

Hopefully they get this solved by Saturday. I don't want to start the season off with a loss because PK wasn't there.
I got a feeling it's a matter of length more than per year $. Bergevin wants to give him a 2 or 3 year deal at most. Meehan wants a contract that will at least lead to UFA year for PK.

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:46 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryDay View Post
Woud you be interested in one of thoses trades?

to Phi
Coburn + Couturier for Gionta + Subban

to NYI
Hamonic + Moulson + 1st for Gionta + Subban + 2nd

to Winnipeg
Kane + Bogosian for Subban + Bourque + 2nd

to Wash
Alzner + Carlson for Subban + ?

to Chicago
Subban for Seabrook

to Anahein
Sbisa + Ryan for Subban + Gionta
I'd do the trade with NYI. Doubt they would though. Hamonic is a decent replacement for Subban, Moulson > Gionta and that 1st round pick has top 10 potential.

Hamonic - Pulock/Ristolainen
Beaulieu - Tinordi

That would be plain deadly (I took for granted NYI are not gonna be bad enough to give us a top 5 pick although it wouldnt be out of reach

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:55 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
What do you compare their contract then, if you acknowledge yourself that Subban is on a different level?

Production wise, I think it's simple to explain. Subban played on an inept power-play on the last seeded team in the east while MDZ played on one of the East top contender.

I don't know if he sees himself too big. To be honest, we don't know much, if at all, about the whole negotiation process.
If it's the case, it is also the fault of many Habs fans who are thinking PK is God.

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:58 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
What do you compare their contract then, if you acknowledge yourself that Subban is on a different level?

Production wise, I think it's simple to explain. Subban played on an inept power-play on the last seeded team in the east while MDZ played on one of the East top contender.

I don't know if he sees himself too big. To be honest, we don't know much, if at all, about the whole negotiation process.
That's not my opinion, it's the way PK seems to evaluate his own value.

Not a big difference between the Rangers' (23rd 15.7%) and the Habs' (28th 14.3%) powerplay last season. Both Subban and Del Zotto compare really well when it comes to powerplay icetime and production.

Listen, I like PK and hope he starts the season on saturday but he certainly is not helping his own cause by asking for the big contract after only two full seasons.

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Old
01-15-2013, 04:12 PM
  #238
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Sit him out for the year? Yeah that's really intelligent. That'll just create so much bad blood between PK and management, not to mention his team mates that his playing days in Montreal would be caput here. It might fly for Doughty to miss a few weeks in LA, but in Montreal the media would eat this situation alive.

Not to mention at that point you've lowered his trade value.

Any more intelligent ideas guys? You either find a middle ground with him and sign him or you start shopping his services to the highest bidder and even though it would hinder the teams performance in the short run its something you have to do. It's called asset management, sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on...

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Old
01-15-2013, 04:18 PM
  #239
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Bergevin might be willing to wait after the first game, betting on Markov to show PK he isn't the best D on the team yet, not yet worth the same salary as Markov. And Ha! Markov's agent is also Meehan!

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Old
01-15-2013, 04:19 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
If it's the case, it is also the fault of many Habs fans who are thinking PK is God.
Yes. Blame the fans for liking a player

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Old
01-15-2013, 04:21 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Yes. Blame the fans for liking a player
So PK doesn't need the fans to have a big head ?

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Old
01-15-2013, 04:22 PM
  #242
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How can you open the wallet for guys like Prust (who I like), Gorges (one of my favorites), Pacioretty and Price but go chintzy on Subban? Doesn't make sense... I understand it's Don Meehan but get this deal done. Subban is our defense, we need him or the season is going to look a lot like last year. Mike Commodore, Bouillon, Band aid Markov, Kaberle, Emelin, Gorges, and the two softies Diaz and Weber.

Good luck with that abortion of a blueline squad. Soft as butter.

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Old
01-15-2013, 04:25 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
So PK doesn't need the fans to have a big head ?
I know garbagemen who have thought themselves the ****. You don't need admirers to pump your tires if you're just that kind of person.

PK was cocky/confident way before turning pro.

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Old
01-15-2013, 04:34 PM
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zilo44 View Post
I'd do the trade with NYI. Doubt they would though. Hamonic is a decent replacement for Subban, Moulson > Gionta and that 1st round pick has top 10 potential.

Hamonic - Pulock/Ristolainen
Beaulieu - Tinordi

That would be plain deadly (I took for granted NYI are not gonna be bad enough to give us a top 5 pick although it wouldnt be out of reach
Hamonic is no Subban but he would be a nice fit here...he's like a young, better Gorges with more of a nasty streak. Moulson wouldn't help us though, he's a great finisher around the net but is below average at everything else. We don't have the centers to get the most out of him, he'd definitely score goals in Theirren's desired crash and bang system but he's not an improvement over Gionta overall, nowhere near the two way player Gionta is either.

Replace Moulson with Okposo or even better, Niederreiter, then we can talk.

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Old
01-15-2013, 04:50 PM
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryDay View Post
Woud you be interested in one of thoses trades?

to Phi
Coburn + Couturier for Gionta + Subban

to NYI
Hamonic + Moulson + 1st for Gionta + Subban + 2nd

to Winnipeg
Kane + Bogosian for Subban + Bourque + 2nd

to Wash
Alzner + Carlson for Subban + ?

to Chicago
Subban for Seabrook

to Anahein
Sbisa + Ryan for Subban + Gionta
Doubt any of these would be accepted by any teams. Except the Philly one and I wouldn't do the Anaheim, NYI and Chicago ones. Other teams are afraid of Subban, which they shouldn't be. Personnally if Bergevin can pull the Washington or Winnipeg ones, I'd be happy, but I'd still rather keep Subban.

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Old
01-15-2013, 05:16 PM
  #246
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All the team comparables being made here (Gorges, Price, Pacioretty) favour Subban. He came to this team under a tough pressure filled situation and performed, first in the playoffs then day to day in regular season.

He's the 23 year old blueline quarterback, not replaceable internally or on the market. Trade talk can stop now thank you.

People worried about PK needing to grow into a contract with these type of numbers can only look to Price as a reference. Price has in no way performed at the numbers required by his contract , and even when the team had a good replacement option, they overpaid with faith that it would pay off.

PK in some ways is more proven than all the players given recent long terms and the team needs to stick with him and put him in that group. In time for Saturday please.

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Old
01-15-2013, 05:29 PM
  #247
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I'd sign PK to 6.5 Mil long term.

I would then make him captain. You can laugh but I am serious.

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Old
01-15-2013, 05:29 PM
  #248
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Even the worst offer the Habs might contemplate making ($4M?) pro-rated at 48/82 is like $2.3M this year. Which is spread over ~100 paid working days. He's losing $23,000+ per day already. $160k+ per week. After 4 weeks the gap between a $4M face-value salary and a $5M face-value will have been bridged. 1 week is basically gone already. At a certain point it would just be dumb to sit out.

I hope the Habs aren't counting on this. I wouldn't nickel and dime PK. But he also hasn't played this year, like a lot of players have, so this camp time is more important to him than to some players. Working in the gym and skating wherever he has been is one thing. But he's going to be behind the 8 ball when he comes back, disadvantaged relative to most others on the Habs' D (Emelin, Weber, Diaz, Kaberle, Markov have all been playing). At a certain point I have to wonder when it's really worth it. For him and the team. Habs need PK. He needs to play.

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Old
01-15-2013, 05:32 PM
  #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BxN View Post
That's not my opinion, it's the way PK seems to evaluate his own value.

Not a big difference between the Rangers' (23rd 15.7%) and the Habs' (28th 14.3%) powerplay last season. Both Subban and Del Zotto compare really well when it comes to powerplay icetime and production.

Listen, I like PK and hope he starts the season on saturday but he certainly is not helping his own cause by asking for the big contract after only two full seasons.
I find where PK has a big edge on Del Zotto it's 5 on 5. He is miles better defensively, much more physical and acn take on a bigger workload.

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Old
01-15-2013, 05:37 PM
  #250
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This contract negotiation is about so much more than just a simple negotiation with Subban. It is about what is fair to the other star players on the team and it is also about sending a message to other young players and their agents that this type of BIG second contract doesn't fly on the Montreal Canadiens. Bergevin will hold-out on this one. He has to.

A team cannot be competitive in a tighter slary cap if they spend all their dough on young players. Can you imagine having to pay top dollar for everyone over 22 years old...you wouldn't be able to keep them all.

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