What exactly is this based on? Because Seguin played more games?
It amazes me that so many HFers think that Seguin is currently better than Hall, what exactly is that based on? Please tell me.
I always hear the injuries argument or that Seguin is a center (which he hasn't played in the NHL) but then those same people who bring up the injury argument say that Galchenyuk is better than Yakupov yet Galchenyuk is the player who missed an entire season due to injury. Funny stuff.
As of right now, i think that it's fair to say that Seguin=Hall and that Yakupov>=Galchenyuk.
An argument can be made for Seguin or Hall being better so i'll call it even.
Yakupov was drafted ahead of Galchenyuk (was consensus #1) and nothing has changed that much since draft day. Galchenyuk is having an excellent season in junior and Yakupov was having an excellent season in a pro league, neither was that great in the WJC. I don't think that there's a big gap between the two but Yakupov was declared the better player at draft time (albeit slightly according to some) and that's still the case until proven otherwise.
The link above is to TSN's 50 best hockey players special from yesterday.
50. Hall, Taylor
31. Seguin, Tyler
According to the talking heads, Seguin is the better player by quite a wide margin. On the broadcast, they mentioned his 45 point increase (22 pts to 67) and going from -4 to +34 in one season. For Hall, they simply said he came in 50th due to injuries and that it could change if he plays a full season. Now I'm not saying everyone should base their opinions on a TSN ranking because this same group of analysts dropped Ryan Kesler from 18th to off the list entirely due to injuries and Kesler is better than both Hall and Seguin.
I realize Seguin was playing on a totally superior team and Hall has intangibles that people believe Seguin doesn't have. I also realize that Hall outproduces Seguin in pts per game, and goals per game but that doesn't matter either because those facts aren't changing people's perceptions. Right now those perceptions however inaccurate are Seguin>Hall, Centre>Winger, Seguin won the Stanley Cup and Hall is too injury prone. Nevermind that Seguin doesn't play Centre in the NHL and nevermind that he was mostly a passenger on Boston's Stanley Cup victory, right now the perception is that Seguin is better.
I'm sure Taylor Hall doesn't care much about what HF or TSN thinks. I'm sure he mostly wants to prepare for the season and get some team success, maybe make the playoffs. Maybe it's a good thing that he has something to prove now because on draft day in 2010 it was no contest based on their accomplishments, Hall>Seguin. I still think Hall has accomplished more so far but I digress. I for one love the idea of challenging Hall to prove he's the superior player and was the right choice for 1st overall in 2010. He certainly has the right coach to push him now.
The link above is to TSN's 50 best hockey players special from yesterday.
50. Hall, Taylor
31. Seguin, Tyler
According to the talking heads, Seguin is the better player by quite a wide margin. On the broadcast, they mentioned his 45 point increase (22 pts to 67) and going from -4 to +34 in one season. For Hall, they simply said he came in 50th due to injuries and that it could change if he plays a full season. Now I'm not saying everyone should base their opinions on a TSN ranking because this same group of analysts dropped Ryan Kesler from 18th to off the list entirely due to injuries and Kesler is better than both Hall and Seguin.
I realize Seguin was playing on a totally superior team and Hall has intangibles that people believe Seguin doesn't have. I also realize that Hall outproduces Seguin in pts per game, and goals per game but that doesn't matter either because those facts aren't changing people's perceptions. Right now those perceptions however inaccurate are Seguin>Hall, Centre>Winger, Seguin won the Stanley Cup and Hall is too injury prone. Nevermind that Seguin doesn't play Centre in the NHL and nevermind that he was mostly a passenger on Boston's Stanley Cup victory, right now the perception is that Seguin is better.
I'm sure Taylor Hall doesn't care much about what HF or TSN thinks. I'm sure he mostly wants to prepare for the season and get some team success, maybe make the playoffs. Maybe it's a good thing that he has something to prove now because on draft day in 2010 it was no contest based on their accomplishments, Hall>Seguin. I still think Hall has accomplished more so far but I digress. I for one love the idea of challenging Hall to prove he's the superior player and was the right choice for 1st overall in 2010. He certainly has the right coach to push him now.
Your linking a list that also has him above Backstrom. Safe to say that list has 0 credibility.
Your linking a list that also has him above Backstrom. Safe to say that list has 0 credibility.
Exactly my point.....there is no credible evidence to suggest that Seguin>Hall when you consider Hall's performance in the NHL has been better statistically than Seguin's yet the perception is that Seguin is much better nonetheless.
The link above is to TSN's 50 best hockey players special from yesterday.
50. Hall, Taylor
31. Seguin, Tyler
According to the talking heads, Seguin is the better player by quite a wide margin. On the broadcast, they mentioned his 45 point increase (22 pts to 67) and going from -4 to +34 in one season. For Hall, they simply said he came in 50th due to injuries and that it could change if he plays a full season. Now I'm not saying everyone should base their opinions on a TSN ranking because this same group of analysts dropped Ryan Kesler from 18th to off the list entirely due to injuries and Kesler is better than both Hall and Seguin.
I realize Seguin was playing on a totally superior team and Hall has intangibles that people believe Seguin doesn't have. I also realize that Hall outproduces Seguin in pts per game, and goals per game but that doesn't matter either because those facts aren't changing people's perceptions. Right now those perceptions however inaccurate are Seguin>Hall, Centre>Winger, Seguin won the Stanley Cup and Hall is too injury prone. Nevermind that Seguin doesn't play Centre in the NHL and nevermind that he was mostly a passenger on Boston's Stanley Cup victory, right now the perception is that Seguin is better.
I'm sure Taylor Hall doesn't care much about what HF or TSN thinks. I'm sure he mostly wants to prepare for the season and get some team success, maybe make the playoffs. Maybe it's a good thing that he has something to prove now because on draft day in 2010 it was no contest based on their accomplishments, Hall>Seguin. I still think Hall has accomplished more so far but I digress. I for one love the idea of challenging Hall to prove he's the superior player and was the right choice for 1st overall in 2010. He certainly has the right coach to push him now.
Good post. This is kind of the same way that Justin Bieber is perceived as the greatest musician in the world.
Exactly my point.....there is no credible evidence to suggest that Seguin>Hall when you consider Hall's performance in the NHL has been better statistically than Seguin's yet the perception is that Seguin is much better nonetheless.
Not many knowledgeable hockey fans think Seguin is *much* better than Hall. Seguin is coming off a stellar 2nd year in the NHL, well over a PPG game in the Swiss league, so it makes perfect sense to me why Seguin *could* be seen as a better player right now.
With that said though, I think whoever is putting Seguin ahead of Hall does so with the implication that it could change in the drop of a hat. Hall has a good 1st half of the season and Seguins is kind of lackluster, everyone will switch their allegiance to Hall and vice versa.
Theyre both far too close to compare, and the only thing comparing does at this stage of their careers is incite a battle of EDM and BOS fans.
Not many knowledgeable hockey fans think Seguin is *much* better than Hall. Seguin is coming off a stellar 2nd year in the NHL, well over a PPG game in the Swiss league, so it makes perfect sense to me why Seguin *could* be seen as a better player right now.
With that said though, I think whoever is putting Seguin ahead of Hall does so with the implication that it could change in the drop of a hat. Hall has a good 1st half of the season and Seguins is kind of lackluster, everyone will switch their allegiance to Hall and vice versa.
Theyre both far too close to compare, and the only thing comparing does at this stage of their careers is incite a battle of EDM and BOS fans.
Hall was top 10 in AHL scoring despite missing 10 games and also over a PPG. AHL is also better than the Swiss League .
Had Seguin been playing in the AHL during the lockout, one could make the argument that he could be better but the only rationale I'm seeing is
a) he is healthier [true but freak injuries could happen to anyone, Seguin included]
b) his torrid pace early in the year [and significant cool down] clouded many people's judgement
c) he's a center [debatable. maybe on his hockey card but he's played mostly wing his whole NHL career. Hall played spot duty at center [and a lot his first junior year]-does that mean he's a center too?]
Hall, while didn't start at the pace Seguin did, played a more consistent level throughout the year and got even better as the year went on until the injury.
edit: I like the point about Yak/Galy - if "injuries" is the reason why Seguin is "better", why can't that hold Galchenyuk back as well? Yak was pretty much 2ppg before the concussion in his draft year...
Last edited by frag2: 01-15-2013 at 02:44 PM.
Reason: added point about Yak/Galy
Hall was top 10 in AHL scoring despite missing 10 games and also over a PPG. AHL is also better than the Swiss League .
Had Seguin been playing in the AHL during the lockout, one could make the argument that he could be better but the only rationale I'm seeing is
a) he is healthier [true but freak injuries could happen to anyone, Seguin included]
b) his torrid pace early in the year [and significant cool down] clouded many people's judgement
c) he's a center [debatable. maybe on his hockey card but he's played mostly wing his whole NHL career. Hall played spot duty at center [and a lot his first junior year]-does that mean he's a center too?]
Hall, while didn't start at the pace Seguin did, played a more consistent level throughout the year and got even better as the year went on until the injury.
edit: I like the point about Yak/Galy - if "injuries" is the reason why Seguin is "better", why can't that hold Galchenyuk back as well? Yak was pretty much 2ppg before the concussion in his draft year...
Their stats are similar enough where you can use your own eyes to determine who is "better," thats my point. Not everything is stats and over analyzing streaks when theyre in their 2nd pro years.
From my point of view, Seguin was our leading scorer and improved immensely as the season went on, both offensively AND defensively. His progression in the last season and a half has been great, combine that with the Bruins place as one on the best teams in teh East, the significant veteran leadership on the team, being on a very successful line, etc., many of us in Boston think the sky is the limit for this kid.
I'm not saying Seguin is better than Hall, as I think its far too early and completely unecessary to compare the two budding superstars, but if somebody wanted to call him "better" right now I certainly would have no gripe with it, and vice versa.
Their stats are similar enough where you can use your own eyes to determine who is "better," thats my point. Not everything is stats and over analyzing streaks when theyre in their 2nd pro years.
From my point of view, Seguin was our leading scorer and improved immensely as the season went on, both offensively AND defensively. His progression in the last season and a half has been great, combine that with the Bruins place as one on the best teams in teh East, the significant veteran leadership on the team, being on a very successful line, etc., many of us in Boston think the sky is the limit for this kid.
I'm not saying Seguin is better than Hall, as I think its far too early and completely unecessary to compare the two budding superstars, but if somebody wanted to call him "better" right now I certainly would have no gripe with it, and vice versa.
Seguin is ready to bust out huge IMO (top 10 scorer)
Seguin is ready to bust out huge IMO (top 10 scorer)
Thats really the feeling around Boston, not top ten scorer necessarily, but after that big season, and success in the Swiss league combined with how good the Bruins are, the sky is really the limit.
Its literally the perfect environment to develop as a young player...vets to pick you up when youre down, vets to bring you down when youre too cocky, etc.
Stats aside, the pieces are there for Seguin to have a BIG year, and a lot think its coming.
Not many knowledgeable hockey fans think Seguin is *much* better than Hall. Seguin is coming off a stellar 2nd year in the NHL, well over a PPG game in the Swiss league, so it makes perfect sense to me why Seguin *could* be seen as a better player right now.
With that said though, I think whoever is putting Seguin ahead of Hall does so with the implication that it could change in the drop of a hat. Hall has a good 1st half of the season and Seguins is kind of lackluster, everyone will switch their allegiance to Hall and vice versa.
Theyre both far too close to compare, and the only thing comparing does at this stage of their careers is incite a battle of EDM and BOS fans.
Most hockey fans aren't very knowledgeable. I hate to say it but it's true. Also, I linked a TSN top 50 players ranking where they rank Seguin much higher than Hall (19 spots). This would seem consistent with this and other Who's better? Hall vs Seguin polls that usually see Seguin at around 60% and Hall around 40%. I'm not saying you're wrong at all; in fact I totally agree with you that a good full season out of Hall may change everything. I'm simply stating that there's a perception out there that Seguin is much better and it's not just from HF, many "knowledgeable" hockey analysts seem to think he's better too, even if it's just for the moment.
I'm simply stating that there's a perception out there that Seguin is much better and it's not just from HF, many "knowledgeable" hockey analysts seem to think he's better too, even if it's just for the moment.
I think that generally stems from the fact that Seguin is a smarter, more aware player than Hall, whereas Hall plays more on a passionate aspect. That's NOT saying Seguin looks like he's floating and doesn't care, but what I mean is Hall is all energy, whereas Seguin is more cerebral.
Most hockey fans aren't very knowledgeable. I hate to say it but it's true. Also, I linked a TSN top 50 players ranking where they rank Seguin much higher than Hall (19 spots). This would seem consistent with this and other Who's better? Hall vs Seguin polls that usually see Seguin at around 60% and Hall around 40%. I'm not saying you're wrong at all; in fact I totally agree with you that a good full season out of Hall may change everything. I'm simply stating that there's a perception out there that Seguin is much better and it's not just from HF, many "knowledgeable" hockey analysts seem to think he's better too, even if it's just for the moment.
That TSN poll also had Seguin above Backstrom. Doesn't mean ****. Random TSN polls and rankings are a horrible basis for an argument.
Also, Hall beat everyone in the "Who's better" polls. I guess he's the best player in the world.
Seguin is very close to Hall. You can make a argument for either, but until they play more then 2 seasons nobody including expert TSN analysts can say who's gonna be better of the 2.
That TSN poll also had Seguin above Backstrom. Doesn't mean ****. Random TSN polls and rankings are a horrible basis for an argument.
Also, Hall beat everyone in the "Who's better" polls. I guess he's the best player in the world.
Seguin is very close to Hall. You can make a argument for either, but until they play more then 2 seasons nobody including expert TSN analysts can say who's gonna be better of the 2.
Please read my other posts instead of cherry picking one and taking it out of context. That will give you a much better indication of where I stand on this subject.
Yakupov played in Russia, Galchenyuk in Ontario and closely followed by a large number of Habs fans.
People can debate and argue, but when it comes to a poll, population trumps.
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I wonder if people will consider Hall less injury prone if he stays healthy all season but in the end, only plays 48 games?
Galchenyuk and Yakupov were teammates in Sarnia and were watched quite closely by many scouts. The consensus was Yakupov>Galchenyuk. I know you're likely referring to where they played during the lockout but that was half a season not full seasons like in junior. For Habs fans to watch 40 games of Galchenyuk in Sarnia sans Yakupov and automatically assume he's better than Yakupov who outperformed him in junior and played very well in the KHL is pretty ridiculous.
The bolded part is 100% true if you change the word population to voters. If you look at Gritzky98's post, he's right to refer to the best player poll TSN did in the summer where Hall and Eberle were the top two vote getters because Oilers fans trolled the poll.
If his two main injuries are the skate to the face in warm-up, and the Sarich hit, I'm not convinced. Both injuries resulted from him falling on his own, which doesn't really mean much, but at the same time, come on, learn to stay on your feet. Add in the fact that he can't seem to master skating with his head up... I'm not saying he's gonna be plagued by injuries his entire career, but I'd rather take Seguin because he's the smarter, more aware hockey player.
Okay for ****s sake, you really think getting a skate to your face=falling on your own? And to stay on his feet?
REALLY?
Flukes happen. I can't believe that because Hall took a skate to the face, that makes Seguin a more aware player. Just completely asinine.
Okay for ****s sake, you really think getting a skate to your face=falling on your own? And to stay on his feet?
REALLY?
Flukes happen. I can't believe that because Hall took a skate to the face, that makes Seguin a more aware player. Just completely asinine.
The skate to his face cam as a result of him falling on his own. He was skating in warm-ups, fell, hit a player, they slid into the boards where another player tried to jump over them, and accidentally stepped on his face. It all started because Hall can't stay on his feet when he skates.
Please at least try to have the slightest clue what you're talking about.
Why Seguin over Hall? And please don't say he outscored Hall. They were scoring at the same clip until Hall got injured. (Hall was actually producing at a better ppg). Halls pro rated stats : 36g-35a-71pts. And Hall has a lot of intangibles. So I really don't get how you can say Seguin is better then Hall so cofidentley. They are virtually equal skill wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Unit
Galchenyuk and Yakupov were teammates in Sarnia and were watched quite closely by many scouts. The consensus was Yakupov>Galchenyuk. I know you're likely referring to where they played during the lockout but that was half a season not full seasons like in junior. For Habs fans to watch 40 games of Galchenyuk in Sarnia sans Yakupov and automatically assume he's better than Yakupov who outperformed him in junior and played very well in the KHL is pretty ridiculous.
The bolded part is 100% true if you change the word population to voters. If you look at Gritzky98's post, he's right to refer to the best player poll TSN did in the summer where Hall and Eberle were the top two vote getters because Oilers fans trolled the poll.
Ya, I was referring to during the lockout as MTL fans would have a more vested interest. I was more so implying that Yakupov playing in the KHL is an "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" situation.
The skate to his face cam as a result of him falling on his own. He was skating in warm-ups, fell, hit a player, they slid into the boards where another player tried to jump over them, and accidentally stepped on his face. It all started because Hall can't stay on his feet when he skates.
Please at least try to have the slightest clue what you're talking about.
It would help if you did. Hall stepped on a puck. Ever played hockey before? Not exactly easy to stay up when you don't expect it.
The skate to his face cam as a result of him falling on his own. He was skating in warm-ups, fell, hit a player, they slid into the boards where another player tried to jump over them, and accidentally stepped on his face. It all started because Hall can't stay on his feet when he skates.
Please at least try to have the slightest clue what you're talking about.
I would hazard a guess every single player in the NHL has fallen down during warm-up or practice. I don't see how someone can make a legitimate claim that Hall's face injury is a direct result of poor balance. I can't think of a better example of a "freak injury" than what happened to Hall (Maybe the Erik Johnson golf-kart or Joe Sakic's snow-blower incidents)
