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Old
01-15-2013, 04:06 PM
  #401
Riptide
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Originally Posted by Tillain View Post
So buyout Horcoff or do nothing?
I think they have to. It will cost 4.62m to buy him out, or pay 7m over the next 2 years (4m next year, and 3 the following), and have a 5.5m cap hit for the next 3 years.

However I think they get 2 buyouts that can be used either this summer (or as of today, 1 can be used before Saturday), or the following summer (July 2014). If that's the case, I could see them sticking with Horcroft until July 2014 when he's in the last yr of his deal, then buying him out.

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01-15-2013, 04:38 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Pressure View Post
Sorry for the lack of specifics but,

Anyone remember the game he was out for an important defensive draw with 2 mins left in the game, down by one goal, and he lost. We fired the puck down the ice 2 times again after that, and Renney kept sending him out there. At one point, Belanger was half way on the ice to take the draw, then Renney sends him back to the bench. Horcoff promptly loses that draw as well and it leads to the game tying goal. He ended up losing the draw 4 times in a row and we got scored on.
I remember that, unfortunately

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01-15-2013, 05:04 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
I think they have to. It will cost 4.62m to buy him out, or pay 7m over the next 2 years (4m next year, and 3 the following), and have a 5.5m cap hit for the next 3 years.

However I think they get 2 buyouts that can be used either this summer (or as of today, 1 can be used before Saturday), or the following summer (July 2014). If that's the case, I could see them sticking with Horcroft until July 2014 when he's in the last yr of his deal, then buying him out.
So do we buy out Horcoff before saturday? Does Tambi have the balls to do it? Definitely need a change in eadership on this team and no better way to do that then with buying Horc's out.

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01-15-2013, 05:17 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
So do we buy out Horcoff before saturday? Does Tambi have the balls to do it? Definitely need a change in eadership on this team and no better way to do that then with buying Horc's out.
No, I don't see why they would. He's still a useful player, and there's no real benefit to buying him out now vs July 2013 or July 2014. If somehow he gets hurt, carrying him for an extra year won't screw them too much - however it would make things very very tight. But I don't see how they can go into the 2014/15 season with him - at least not if they want any depth. Nuge and J.Schultz would both need new deals before Horc's has expired and that would screw them. Depending on how JS plays, his might not be too bad, but Nuge's will be pretty close to Ebs or Halls.

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01-15-2013, 05:22 PM
  #405
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Where are you getting that you can buy out guys before this summer? If that were the case Redden and Gomez would be bought out by now instead of being paid to sit at home.

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01-15-2013, 05:23 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
No, I don't see why they would. He's still a useful player, and there's no real benefit to buying him out now vs July 2013 or July 2014. If somehow he gets hurt, carrying him for an extra year won't screw them too much - however it would make things very very tight. But I don't see how they can go into the 2014/15 season with him - at least not if they want any depth. Nuge and J.Schultz would both need new deals before Horc's has expired and that would screw them. Depending on how JS plays, his might not be too bad, but Nuge's will be pretty close to Ebs or Halls.
I say wait until the summer of 2014 to decide whether to buy out Horcoff or not, a lot can change by then.

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01-15-2013, 05:27 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by OilerNut View Post
Where are you getting that you can buy out guys before this summer? If that were the case Redden and Gomez would be bought out by now instead of being paid to sit at home.
Because they just decided today that you can buy out a player now. PA didn't like that Gomez and Redden were going to have to sit at home and loss a year of playing at their age.

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01-15-2013, 05:33 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by OilerNut View Post
I say wait until the summer of 2014 to decide whether to buy out Horcoff or not, a lot can change by then.
We need a leadership change before that. If you let him play and he gets hurt you risk not being able to buy him out this summer. Belanger can take over the 3rd line duties, Horcoff can go and we can bring in someone like Betts or Moore on a one year deal to anchor the 4th line.

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01-15-2013, 05:33 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
So do we buy out Horcoff before saturday? Does Tambi have the balls to do it? Definitely need a change in eadership on this team and no better way to do that then with buying Horc's out.
As much as he's dropped off as a capable player, the Oilers aren't sending him home because he's useless, nor are they struggling for cap space right now. The Oilers simply have no reason to pay 5.5 million dollars for a player to play for another NHL team.

The hope it with his rapidly declining play and the need for better players in the coming years along with the cap space that will be needed to aquire them, that he'll be bought out this summer, the next summer at the latest.

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01-15-2013, 06:46 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by OilerNut View Post
Where are you getting that you can buy out guys before this summer? If that were the case Redden and Gomez would be bought out by now instead of being paid to sit at home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSN
According to TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun of ESPN.com, teams are now eligible to exercise an "accelerated compliance buyout" on one player with a salary cap hit of $3 million or more before the regular season begins on Saturday.

If a compliance buyout is used this week, a team will have only one left to use next summer.
Now they say it's to be used for someone who would otherwise be left sitting at home... but that's not how they worded it, and I don't see how they could apply it like that. You can either buy someone out, or you can't.

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01-15-2013, 06:53 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
The Oilers simply have no reason to pay 5.5 million dollars for a player to play for another NHL team.
He makes 6m this year (prorated due to the lockout), 4m next year, and 3m the following year. After this season, he's not untradeable. I could easily see budget teams (like NYI and others) having some interest - even more teams if Edmonton ate some of his contract. Or they pay 4.62m to buy him out this summer, or 2m to buy him out the following summer. But again, you'd have to think that if Edmonton decided to retain 30% of his contract/cap hit for the 2014/15 season (his last yr), that would make his cap hit 1.65/1m cap hit/salary to Edmonton, and 3.85/2m to someone else... I can see a bunch of teams willing to take him at 3.85/2m.

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01-15-2013, 06:56 PM
  #412
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Is there a better back-up goalie out there than Khabibulin for 1M?

Don't need to buy him out, but its the one area I think could make or break getting to the playoffs or not this season. Dubbie gets injured and the Oil are done.

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01-15-2013, 06:59 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
Is there a better back-up goalie out there than Khabibulin for 1M?

Don't need to buy him out, but its the one area I think could make or break getting to the playoffs or not this season. Dubbie gets injured and the Oil are done.
Disagree. As long as Khabi hasn't been overworked, he should be as good as anyone we'll find to replace him, if not better. Say Dubnyk plays 25 of the first 30 games and gets hurt. I'm sure Khabi could manage to split the remaining 18 with Danis. That's still only be ~20 games in the entire regular season for him

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01-15-2013, 07:07 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
He makes 6m this year (prorated due to the lockout), 4m next year, and 3m the following year. After this season, he's not untradeable. I could easily see budget teams (like NYI and others) having some interest - even more teams if Edmonton ate some of his contract. Or they pay 4.62m to buy him out this summer, or 2m to buy him out the following summer. But again, you'd have to think that if Edmonton decided to retain 30% of his contract/cap hit for the 2014/15 season (his last yr), that would make his cap hit 1.65/1m cap hit/salary to Edmonton, and 3.85/2m to someone else... I can see a bunch of teams willing to take him at 3.85/2m.
No one is trading for Horcoff.

They'll just wait for the buyout instead of wasting time and assets.

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01-15-2013, 07:27 PM
  #415
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For the people who want to see Horc bought out this week.... really? Are you serious with that?

It will be June 2014, assuming that moving compliance buyouts up to now hasn't changed that. That is when his final year will impede contract extensions for other, more important players. Maybe this June if they have a trade option that puts them over the cap.

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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Disagree. As long as Khabi hasn't been overworked, he should be as good as anyone we'll find to replace him, if not better. Say Dubnyk plays 25 of the first 30 games and gets hurt. I'm sure Khabi could manage to split the remaining 18 with Danis. That's still only be ~20 games in the entire regular season for him
Bulin is not an NHL calibre Goaltender over an 82 game campaign. He tires too quickly, and I think it's down to old age and body chemistry (he literally loses weight every game in sweat)

But, I agree, in a short season with 10-15 starts, he'll probably be fine. Two years in a row he started hot and fell off. If he doesn't, it's nice to have Yann Danis in the organization.

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01-15-2013, 07:37 PM
  #416
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Im gonna get a kick out of listening to you all complain when Horcoff is on the first pp unit and getting time in penalty kill and even strength.

Course, I hope Horcoff has a bounce back season and we have the team to try outscoring teams ather then sit on leads and hope something good happens.

Cause thats the only way thi steam is going to be successfull, and Im an Oiler fan.

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01-15-2013, 08:02 PM
  #417
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I agree, Horks should go.

Looks like he won't be leaving though.

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01-15-2013, 11:46 PM
  #418
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The buy out door is open and it maximizes cap space by getting rid of Horcoff now. I know they don't absolutely NEED to buy him out now... but that also leaves more space to add another useful piece if a trade situation should pop up. It would be nice to have all that cap room available "just in case" something develops or a particularly appealing player were to become available on the market.


Time for a Poll:

Should the Oilers buyout Horcoff before Saturday?

Put me down in the buyout Horcoff now camp.

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01-15-2013, 11:58 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
The buy out door is open and it maximizes cap space by getting rid of Horcoff now. I know they don't absolutely NEED to buy him out now... but that also leaves more space to add another useful piece if a trade situation should pop up. It would be nice to have all that cap room available "just in case" something develops or a particularly appealing player were to become available on the market.


Time for a Poll:

Should the Oilers buyout Horcoff before Saturday?

Put me down in the buyout Horcoff now camp.
If I'm not mistaken, it doesn't maximize capspace. If you buy out someone before the weekend, I thought it still counts against your cap for this year? I thought the cap exemption only occurs after this upcoming summer. If that is the case, then there is absolutely no benefit of buying out Horcoff. In fact, if we bought him out now, we would be in need of a good 3rd line centre. It would cause more problems rather than fixing them.

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01-16-2013, 12:31 AM
  #420
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
Is there a better back-up goalie out there than Khabibulin for 1M?

Don't need to buy him out, but its the one area I think could make or break getting to the playoffs or not this season. Dubbie gets injured and the Oil are done.
I think with limited WOrk Khabi can be a good NHL goalie, Look at him at the beginning of last season, he had us in first place for a good stretch.

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If I'm not mistaken, it doesn't maximize capspace. If you buy out someone before the weekend, I thought it still counts against your cap for this year? I thought the cap exemption only occurs after this upcoming summer. If that is the case, then there is absolutely no benefit of buying out Horcoff. In fact, if we bought him out now, we would be in need of a good 3rd line centre. It would cause more problems rather than fixing them.
If they let you buy out a player now it would be compliance buyouts, which means no cap hit.

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01-16-2013, 12:38 AM
  #421
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His salary is irrelevant to the discussion. His Cap hit is all that really matters to this hockey club, and at $5.5 it is grossly over priced. Now that's ok for this season and probably next year, but for his final year of his contract the Oilers are going to be hard against the cap and Horcoff at $5.5Mil will be a huge hindrance to the GM's ability to put together a strong playoff team, which we should definitely be at that point in time.

The only person who should care about Horcoffs Salary are Horcoff and Katz, that is it. maybe his wife and kids too.
His cap hit is not a major issue now as the Oilers do not have a cap problem esp with an artifical cap ceiling at that. Buying him out now would still count against the cap. Khabby's semi big contract is over after this season which would further reduce the future cap pressure. Horc's salary decreases to 4 mil (2014) and 3 mil (2015) which makes it easier to accept as a 3rd liner with pp time and crucial faceoffs as well as a leader. He is a true captain and a fine one. Why do you think they let Moreau and Staios go? Horcoff provides the better chemistry and respect. Losing him now does more "harm" to your dressing room and team chemisty.

The kids are still too young to take the load and demands of a team captain. If Horc's salary was 3 million now, none of us would be crying. Should others blame your boss or you for overpaying (you)? Last time I checked, the Oilers still has Horc as their captain going forward. Obviously, the team must know something that he is worth keeping along with all his other intangibles and assets more than we know (?).


Last edited by SLURVE: 01-16-2013 at 01:17 AM.
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01-16-2013, 12:44 AM
  #422
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Nah he blows.. dump him.

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01-16-2013, 01:03 AM
  #423
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The new agreement allows teams to use one of those compliance buyouts prior to the start of this season. However, the player's full salary for the 2012-13 season still would count against the team's cap.
Buying Horcoff out now does nothing for the cap hit this year.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=650548

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01-16-2013, 01:15 AM
  #424
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His cap hit is not a major issue now as the Oilers do not have a cap problem esp with an artifical cap ceiling at that. Buying him out now would still count against the cap. Khabby's semi big contract is over after this season which would further reduce the future cap pressure. Horc's salary decreases to 4 mil (2014) and 3 mil (2015) which makes it easier to accept as a 3rd liner with pp time and crucial faceoffs as well as a leader. He is a true captain and a fine one. Why do you think they let Moreau and Staios go? Horcoff provides the better chemistry and respect. Losing him now does more "harm" to your dressing room and team chemisty.

The kids are still too young to take the load and demands of a team captain. If Horc's salary was 3 million now, none of us would be crying. Should others blame your boss or you for overpaying (you)? Last time I checked, the Oilers still has Horc as their captain going forward. Obviously, the team must know something that he is worth keeping along with all his other intangibles and assets more than we (?).
The way I read the information about the "accelerated contracts" is that they can buy out the players now under their compliance buyout that will be available this summer. The cap hit for this season will still apply but next season it will disappear. All this does is allows the player to sign another deal for this year so he doesn't have to sit at home all year, or half of the year, or what ever...

His actual salary has no bearing on the argument what so ever, why are you bringing it up? The only people who should give a flying fart about his salary are Katz and Horcoff, and maybe Horcoffs family. His Cap hit is all that effects Tambilini and the Oilers. the only situation where it comes into play is if you try to trade him to a team who needs artificial cap dollars, that is all.

As for when they buy him out, I don't think now is the time. The Oilers don't have anyone who can fill in the 4th line center roll. Belanger can fill the 3rd line roll, but I don't see anyone filling the 4th line roll. In my opinion Horcoff can fill a 3rd line roll just fine for this year. And for this season the Oilers have lots of room in cap space to fit him in. Next season might not be as cozy for him, looking at it harder it might get tight with an extra 5.5Mil attached to your 3rd liner. it can probably be done, but if the Oilers have a good year and make the playoffs you are probably going to want to go into the off season with intentions of making this team better, Horcoffs 5.5Mil will hinder that.

Horcoff could probably play out his contract as a 3rd/4th line center and be servicable, but his contract will hurt the team. that money can be spent much better elsewhere.

This season is fine, next season gets tight, and 2014/15 is a must buy out situation.

No arguments about him being a fine captain, but he should not get PP time. I'd much rather have Belanger on the PP to win draws. Horcoff isn't terrible at draws, especially at home, but he's not what he once was.

The oilers haven't had a decent chance to get rid of him. No team will take him in a trade, there has been no reasonable time to buy him out either. We will see this summer and next if the team really thinks his intangibles are worth 5.5Mil.

I would say you have drank too much Horcoff juice.

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01-16-2013, 01:25 AM
  #425
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No one is trading for Horcoff.

They'll just wait for the buyout instead of wasting time and assets.
Perhaps. But he's not a useless player... He's just vastly over paid, and miscasted as a top 6 forward (at least in a full time role). If a team plays him as a 3rd line center, he's probably one of the top 3 in the game at that position. It just that Edmonton paid him for 1 great season, and now has the talent to bump him down the depth chart.

I could see a team with cap space trading for him (assuming he's cheap to acquire). But I agree, he's more likely to be bought out than traded... but who knows.

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