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Kings trade Kevin Westgarth to Carolina for Anthony Stewart, '13 4th rd, '14 6th rd

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01-15-2013, 10:58 AM
  #151
Fat Elvis
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The Redwings haven't played a goon in years, and they're one of the better teams each year. Team toughness is more important than dressing a specialist for 4-5 minutes a night. Rolling the 4th line for 8-12 minutes a night will help keep legs fresh.

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01-15-2013, 11:02 AM
  #152
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DL mentioned last night that they think they have the "size and toughness" on the bottom 6 and that Westgarth wasn't going to have a chance to play. For all of you hoping Westgarth will be replaced, he probably won't be.

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01-15-2013, 02:18 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by DP View Post
The Redwings haven't played a goon in years, and they're one of the better teams each year. Team toughness is more important than dressing a specialist for 4-5 minutes a night. Rolling the 4th line for 8-12 minutes a night will help keep legs fresh.
Bertuzzi is the biggest goon there is.

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01-15-2013, 02:22 PM
  #154
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Wings signed Tootoo...Bertuzzi can still throw (he wiped the floor with Shane O'Brien a few years back 2x in one game) and Abdelkator can fight as well as Ericsson.

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01-15-2013, 02:31 PM
  #155
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Wings signed Tootoo...Bertuzzi can still throw (he wiped the floor with Shane O'Brien a few years back 2x in one game) and Abdelkator can fight as well as Ericsson.
How is it you can call Abdelkader and Ericsson tough, but we are doomed without Westgarth?

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01-15-2013, 02:36 PM
  #156
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Ha, I didn't say that. I was just telling people the guys on Detroit who scrap.

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01-15-2013, 06:21 PM
  #157
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That's RIGHT!

He was sticking up for Brown , cause it was like three on one.

I mean the notion that the Kings are soft cause Westgarth is gone is just looney bin talk.
It's like people want a goon on the ice for the Kings at all times to make sure Kopitar doesn't get hit.

Let Westgarth play 60 minutes!

LMAO

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01-15-2013, 06:35 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by 123slam View Post
Bertuzzi is the biggest goon there is.
Bertuzzi can play hockey at a high level. I don't think a guy that can play in all situations is typically a goon in today's sense. He is, of course, capable of some goonery, but are we really trying to bring up Bertuzzi as a comparison to Westgarth in this conversation? As long as Bertuzzi isn't being an *#@hole he's as much a goon as maybe Dwight King... And I'd say less than Nolan. (I'm not trying to call any of these players goons, just comparing for discussion's sake.) Bertuzzi has really toned it down from what I've seen since he was allowed back in the league.

By the way, Nolan is a big kid and I would like to hear from an observer if he has put on some muscle over the offseason. He seemed to be very willing to throw last year and I would only expect more of that as he matures. #Beast

Good luck to Westgarth; I always rooted for him out there. But he ain't gonna be missed. Sorry, but not really. This team is awesome!

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01-15-2013, 07:27 PM
  #159
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I love Nolan. If you read back posts, I was hyping him before the call up and I was right on and people gave me props for calling it. The problem is only occasionally fights and isn't a enforcer. He had 2 fights in 25+ regular season games with the Kings and 1 in the playoffs. He never had more than 12 fights in his career (AHL/OHL). He is kinda always like the 2nd/3rd fighter on the team. There was only one year in juniors where he led the team in fights and that with the Greyhounds, where he led them with 12.

A few years ago in the AHL, he was 3rd behind Clune and Justin Johnson in majors. Nolan has admittedly said he doesn't like staged fights so the enforcer role cannot fall on him. That is what bothers me, because if it doesn't fall on him, it falls on Clifford, who has never been the same since the Reaves fight. Nolan is a good fighter though, but we right now run the risk of not even having him on the team because of his two way deal. So all the fighting falls on Clifford. Not good.

Also, please people stop calling Dwight King a fighter. He has 20 career fights in 9 years of professional hockey and no more than 4 in one year. He will fight if he has too, but rarely does. King can throw them if he does, but he is only an occasional scrapper. It's not his game.

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01-15-2013, 07:43 PM
  #160
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Why does a player have to fight a lot to be considered tough?

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01-15-2013, 07:44 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by 123slam View Post
Bertuzzi is the biggest goon there is.
LOL. He's not

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01-15-2013, 07:54 PM
  #162
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I only brought up Bertuzzi being the biggest goon because of the Moore incident. Guy should never have been allowed to step foot onto NHL ice again.

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01-15-2013, 09:04 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
I love Nolan. If you read back posts, I was hyping him before the call up and I was right on and people gave me props for calling it. The problem is only occasionally fights and isn't a enforcer. He had 2 fights in 25+ regular season games with the Kings and 1 in the playoffs. He never had more than 12 fights in his career (AHL/OHL). He is kinda always like the 2nd/3rd fighter on the team. There was only one year in juniors where he led the team in fights and that with the Greyhounds, where he led them with 12.

A few years ago in the AHL, he was 3rd behind Clune and Justin Johnson in majors. Nolan has admittedly said he doesn't like staged fights so the enforcer role cannot fall on him. That is what bothers me, because if it doesn't fall on him, it falls on Clifford, who has never been the same since the Reaves fight. Nolan is a good fighter though, but we right now run the risk of not even having him on the team because of his two way deal. So all the fighting falls on Clifford. Not good.

Also, please people stop calling Dwight King a fighter. He has 20 career fights in 9 years of professional hockey and no more than 4 in one year. He will fight if he has too, but rarely does. King can throw them if he does, but he is only an occasional scrapper. It's not his game.
Nobody wants to fight guys King, Nolan or Greene. Since they don't really goon it up and participate in the staged fights, maybe their fight totals aren't so high. But all those guys are big, tough, and capable of wrecking shop. Great thing is they can play some hockey! My opinion is nobody is gonna try #@*# with the Kings, with their all around grit and toughness, despite the absence of a goon.

Rollin 4 lines, checking hard, with great pressure all game is what we're gonna see.

No Goon and the Kings are still the tough guys out there on the ice, for sure.

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01-15-2013, 11:00 PM
  #164
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It really boggles my mind mind that after the playoff run the Kings had, rolling 4 capable lines, there are still people talking about the need to dress a goon, you think a 16-4 playoff domination would squash those thoughts, but apparently some people need to get the staged fight high, still.

The Kings are going to roll the same lineup that crushed everyone in the playoffs last year, I hope teams do dress goons against us. The Kings four quality lines will steamroll those teams just like we did in the playoffs.

I swear, it's like some people would love to go back to the days of Kip Brennan, Ryan Flinn, Mark Visheau and Raitis Ivanans instead of what we had last year.

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01-15-2013, 11:15 PM
  #165
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It really boggles my mind mind that after the playoff run the Kings had, rolling 4 capable lines, there are still people talking about the need to dress a goon, you think a 16-4 playoff domination would squash those thoughts, but apparently some people need to get the staged fight high, still.

The Kings are going to roll the same lineup that crushed everyone in the playoffs last year, I hope teams do dress goons against us. The Kings four quality lines will steamroll those teams just like we did in the playoffs.

I swear, it's like some people would love to go back to the days of Kip Brennan, Ryan Flinn, Mark Visheau and Raitis Ivanans instead of what we had last year.
Rangers ran into this problem

Playing three lines (fourth liability) and only Five Defenseman is what killed the Rangers. Those goons are useless in the playoff's

They were gassed in that game Seven.

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01-16-2013, 04:15 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
It really boggles my mind mind that after the playoff run the Kings had, rolling 4 capable lines, there are still people talking about the need to dress a goon, you think a 16-4 playoff domination would squash those thoughts, but apparently some people need to get the staged fight high, still.

The Kings are going to roll the same lineup that crushed everyone in the playoffs last year, I hope teams do dress goons against us. The Kings four quality lines will steamroll those teams just like we did in the playoffs.

I swear, it's like some people would love to go back to the days of Kip Brennan, Ryan Flinn, Mark Visheau and Raitis Ivanans instead of what we had last year.
playoff hockey is not the same as in the regular season in the sense neither team wants to take bad penalties. but in the regular season, the same conduct does not always apply. wasn't it just 2 or 3 years ago Doughty was run at, and Lombardy went ape **** because no one stood up and got revenge on the runner.

when the likes of the kassians of the league want to duke it out with the kings to change the pace of a regular season game, we have to then be prepared for concussions, and down time for our brave and willing combatants.

this is the primary reason the team needs someone, and not someone to dress every game, just when the team is facing cementheads.

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01-16-2013, 09:17 AM
  #167
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playoff hockey is not the same as in the regular season in the sense neither team wants to take bad penalties. but in the regular season, the same conduct does not always apply. wasn't it just 2 or 3 years ago Doughty was run at, and Lombardy went ape **** because no one stood up and got revenge on the runner.

when the likes of the kassians of the league want to duke it out with the kings to change the pace of a regular season game, we have to then be prepared for concussions, and down time for our brave and willing combatants.

this is the primary reason the team needs someone, and not someone to dress every game, just when the team is facing cementheads.
2 years ago would be I assume 2009-2010 season.

Ivanans WAS on that team. Who wasn't on that team was Mike Richards, Willie Mitchell, Kyle Clifford, Jordan Nolan and Dwight King, all of whom are more than capable of jumping in and defending a teammate. They may get their ass kicked for doing it, but fighting to stick up for a teammate is much more about demonstrating a willingness to stick up for a teammate than it is who wins the fight.

Just showing Drew that you'll stand up for him sends a much bigger message through the locker room, just like when you don't it sends a very negative message out. THAT'S likely what Deano was pissed about. You guys are supposed to be like a family. A family doesn't let one of its own get slammed into the boards and does nothing about it.

Honestly, it likely sends more of a message to the team to see a Jordan Nolan or a Kyle Clifford or even a Mike Richards grab a Kassian and fight him than it does a goon like Ivanans. Nolan, Clifford and Richards are here to play hockey, fighting is secondary (or less) for them. They don't HAVE to fight to keep a job. So that speaks volumes when they do something they don't have to, putting themselves in harms way as well, to defend a teammates honor.

Ivanans and the rest of the goons HAVE to fight. If they don't, they'll be out of an NHL job and the millions of dollars and perks that go with it. Big difference in terms of the message.

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01-16-2013, 10:03 AM
  #168
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Most true Goons or straight Enforcers. No longer have jobs in the NHL.

Remember last year, when EDM dressed a goon squad for the fourth line ? Yup how did that work out.....

They got throttled 4-1 and Brown put their best D man (smid) Out for the rest of the season.

So how did all those Goons do ?

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01-16-2013, 10:15 AM
  #169
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Ivanans WAS on that team. Who wasn't on that team was Mike Richards, Willie Mitchell, Kyle Clifford, Jordan Nolan and Dwight King, all of whom are more than capable of jumping in and defending a teammate. They may get their ass kicked for doing it, but fighting to stick up for a teammate is much more about demonstrating a willingness to stick up for a teammate than it is who wins the fight.
Exactly and on top of that, the Kings size has to be at least a bit intimidating to some of the smaller teams with goons to compensate. The Kings have really big players at every position. That means when another team tries to goon it up, the Kings have to size to start pushing them back and players like you mentioned (add in Greene and Fraser) who are willing to fight if necessary. There are also players like Brown and Richards who can throw heavy hits. I certainly don't think the Kings are the scariest team in the league by any stretch but I think they showed in last year's playoffs that they will not be pushed around and they use their size effectively.

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01-16-2013, 02:09 PM
  #170
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They won't be pushed around in the playoffs, but during the regular season it all falls on Clifford...which is a bummer...

Look at Chicago's opening day roster....

Dan Carcillo-Jonathan Toews-Marian Hossa
Patrick Sharp-Dave Bolland-Patrick Kane
Bryan Bickell-Andrew Shaw-Viktor Stalberg
Brandon Bollig-Marcus Kruger-Michal Frolik
Jamal Mayers

Brent Seabrook-Duncan keith
Johnny Oduya-Niklas Hjalmarsson
Michal Rozsival-Nick Leddy
Sheldon Brookbank

That's a lot of grit. Hopefully Kings counter this by throwing the body and not backing down.

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01-16-2013, 02:18 PM
  #171
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They won't be pushed around in the playoffs, but during the regular season it all falls on Clifford...which is a bummer...

Look at Chicago's opening day roster....

Dan Carcillo-Jonathan Toews-Marian Hossa
Patrick Sharp-Dave Bolland-Patrick Kane
Bryan Bickell-Andrew Shaw-Viktor Stalberg
Brandon Bollig-Marcus Kruger-Michal Frolik
Jamal Mayers

Brent Seabrook-Duncan keith
Johnny Oduya-Niklas Hjalmarsson
Michal Rozsival-Nick Leddy
Sheldon Brookbank

That's a lot of grit. Hopefully Kings counter this by throwing the body and not backing down.
Jesus if that's the Hawks lineup.....

That is an awful bottom six, and terrible second pairing.

The Hawks are in trouble

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01-16-2013, 02:36 PM
  #172
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I may be crazy, but I'm more concerned with Toews, Kane, Hossa and especially SHARP hurting the Kings on opening day than I am about Bollig or Carcillo.

Although, we may have a problem if there is a bar fight after the game.

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01-16-2013, 02:45 PM
  #173
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The more I think about this, the more I like it.

AS has everything to prove and this is pretty much his last shot. He can skate, has a scoring touch and can beat up Brian Boyle if we ever need him beat up


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01-16-2013, 02:50 PM
  #174
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Having Carcillo on that top line reminds of when Kyle Calder was the LW on Kopi's line.

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01-16-2013, 03:02 PM
  #175
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The more I think about this, the more I like it.

AS has everything to prove and this is pretty much his last shot. He can skate, has a scoring touch and can beat up Brian Boyle if we ever need him beat up

THAT'S the type of stuff I'm talking about. We don't need a stage fighter, but someone who will jump in to defend a teammate like what Stewart did there is exactly what we need. Even if Stewart would have got his rear end handed to him, he still did more for the team, and whoever it was that got drilled into the boards, than any staged fight would accomplish.

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