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[CBJ/OTT] David Savard for Ben Bishop

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01-15-2013, 09:35 AM
  #26
Mayor Bee
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
I'm... I'm not quite sure you understand what you just typed.. Decent? Decent as in .900 GAA decent? I can see that. Effective? No.
You just cut out half of what I typed. My point is that Columbus currently has four goalies under contract (two of them on two-way deals), and four more in the system after them, all of whom are under 21. That includes one in college (Ouellette), one in major junior (Dansk), one in Sweden (Forsberg), and one in Finland (Korpisalo).

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01-15-2013, 12:04 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
You just cut out half of what I typed. My point is that Columbus currently has four goalies under contract (two of them on two-way deals), and four more in the system after them, all of whom are under 21. That includes one in college (Ouellette), one in major junior (Dansk), one in Sweden (Forsberg), and one in Finland (Korpisalo).
Goalie prospects are very far from sure things...As a CBJ fan, I'm excited by Dansk, but goalie prospects, even first rounders fail a lot more than they work out.

Obviously, it would take a lot for Ottawa to give up Lehner (and I doubt they would anyway) but if you're the Jackets you do anything you can do get a guy like that, you can't take comfort in having 1st and 3rd round picks in the system...

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01-15-2013, 12:35 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Goalie prospects are very far from sure things...As a CBJ fan, I'm excited by Dansk, but goalie prospects, even first rounders fail a lot more than they work out.

Obviously, it would take a lot for Ottawa to give up Lehner (and I doubt they would anyway) but if you're the Jackets you do anything you can do get a guy like that, you can't take comfort in having 1st and 3rd round picks in the system...
...but second round goalie picks like Lehner are perfectly fine?
And we'll just ignore the fact that Dansk was also in the second round...

There's this double standard of "he's not a Jackets prospect so therefore he doesn't suck" that comes around now and again. I think that may be what's going on here.

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01-15-2013, 12:43 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Goalie prospects are very far from sure things...As a CBJ fan, I'm excited by Dansk, but goalie prospects, even first rounders fail a lot more than they work out.

Obviously, it would take a lot for Ottawa to give up Lehner (and I doubt they would anyway) but if you're the Jackets you do anything you can do get a guy like that, you can't take comfort in having 1st and 3rd round picks in the system...
Still not the point though. If Columbus has four goalies under contract and four more in the pipeline, how likely are they to trade a roster player to pick up another one?

That's especially considering that both Bobrovsky and Mason would have to clear waivers, and either one of them would be claimed (yes, even Mason). It would create a massive roster logjam, and no good way to alleviate it.

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01-15-2013, 01:40 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Still not the point though. If Columbus has four goalies under contract and four more in the pipeline, how likely are they to trade a roster player to pick up another one?

That's especially considering that both Bobrovsky and Mason would have to clear waivers, and either one of them would be claimed (yes, even Mason). It would create a massive roster logjam, and no good way to alleviate it.
There is no such thing as a logjam when it comes to goaltending, especially for a team that was dressing Shawn Hunwick and calling up Allen York from the ECHL.

Guys like Dansk who are teenagers playing in Sweden, or a retread like McElheinny I don't think would affect the Jackets thinking if they had an opportunity to get a guy like Lehner.


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01-15-2013, 03:15 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
There is no such thing as a logjam when it comes to goaltending, especially for a team that was dressing Shawn Hunwick and calling up Allen York from the ECHL.

Guys like Dansk who are teenagers playing in Sweden, or a retread like McElheinny I don't think would affect the Jackets thinking if they had an opportunity to get a guy like Lehner.
1. The odds are pretty low for a team to lose their top three goaltenders at the same time, so I wouldn't let that the possibility of that very unlikely occurrence happening again this season influence transactions for the future.
2. Small nitpick, but Dansk is playing for the Erie Otters
3. I like Lehner, but not at the price of Savard. Lehner is still an unknown quantity at the NHL level and I wouldn't give up a promising young defenseman for that.

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01-15-2013, 04:05 PM
  #32
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No interest or need for Bishop if it requires giving up an asset like Savard. Something could be done around Goloubef but I don't think he's much of a need when they have Wiercioch and Boro.

Not much I wouldn't give up for Lehner though, he's going to be better than anything we have most likely in the pipes.

I'd entertain giving up one of Savard/Erixon+ if it meant getting Silf, Zib, or Stone though. Pretty much in love with most of Ottawa's prospects except Zibanejad, not saying he won't become an NHLer....but I don't see the elite first line wing/center a. lot of people are proclaiming.

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01-15-2013, 04:53 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
There is no such thing as a logjam when it comes to goaltending, especially for a team that was dressing Shawn Hunwick and calling up Allen York from the ECHL.
Imagine if Pittburgh lost Crosby, Malkin, and Sutter to injury all at the same time for extended periods. Does that mean they now have a desperate need to draft a MacKinnon or trade for a Duchene or Pavelski?

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01-15-2013, 08:48 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Imagine if Pittburgh lost Crosby, Malkin, and Sutter to injury all at the same time for extended periods. Does that mean they now have a desperate need to draft a MacKinnon or trade for a Duchene or Pavelski?
I was disagreeing with the idea that the Blue Jackets would/should settle for their goalie situation if a guy like a Lehner could somehow be had.

Regardless of injures, there was a system that had what, Allen York, Curtis Sanford, Mark Dekanich, Steve Mason, Manny Legace, etc? You can't compare them to Crosby, Malkin, and Sutter, that's for sure.

I don't think the drafting of two goalies and the Bob/Macelheinny signings means mean we're set at goalie and should prevent us from pursuing good young goaltending should one be made available. Lehner is a stud


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Old
01-15-2013, 08:55 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
...but second round goalie picks like Lehner are perfectly fine?
And we'll just ignore the fact that Dansk was also in the second round...

There's this double standard of "he's not a Jackets prospect so therefore he doesn't suck" that comes around now and again. I think that may be what's going on here.
I think you misunderstand. All I'm saying are goalie prospects are not sure things, even highly touted ones, so Columbus can't just be satisfied that we drafted two goalie prospects and count that one of them will eventually solve our goalie issues Lehner has been called up and played very well and won games at the NHL level and he has been dominant at the AHL...so it has nothing to do with a bias.

I like Savard, but with Murray, Moore, and Erixon I think he would be a great trade chip to use (you have to give value to get value)

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01-15-2013, 08:59 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
I don't think the drafting of two goalies and the Bob/Macelheinny signings means mean we're set at goalie and should prevent us from pursuing a good young goaltending should one be made available.
Sure, but I'd much rather target a guy who has been the starter for 2+ seasons over someone like Lehner who hasn't yet been an NHL starter. Essentially, I'd have more interest in Anderson than Lehner. That's nothing against Lehner mind you, just my uneasiness about acquiring a prospect goalie and giving him the reins.

That's if we're to trade for someone. If no such thing is available, then stick with what we have and build goaltending through FA and the draft.

Don't give up the hefty pieces necessary to acquire a young "stud" goalie who has yet to prove himself at the NHL level. That means guys like Lehner, Markstrom, and Bernier.

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01-15-2013, 09:06 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Don't give up the hefty pieces necessary to acquire a young "stud" goalie who has yet to prove himself at the NHL level. That means guys like Lehner, Markstrom, and Bernier.
I would absolutely give up hefty pieces for either Lehner or Markstrom...

After last year's success, I wonder if Ott would part with Lehner if they got an amazing offer that could help them now, that's why I was thinking Brassard

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01-15-2013, 09:10 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
I would absolutely give up hefty pieces for either Lehner or Markstrom...

After last year's success, I wonder if Ott would part with Lehner if they got an amazing offer that could help them now, that's why I was thinking Brassard
Lehner is the future. It would take Ryan Murray and Bishop looking like he can be a starter.

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01-15-2013, 10:02 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
I would absolutely give up hefty pieces for either Lehner or Markstrom...

After last year's success, I wonder if Ott would part with Lehner if they got an amazing offer that could help them now, that's why I was thinking Brassard
Well Brassard is not an amazing offer it's kinda weak considering he was scratched on the last place team last year and we're set for forwards tbh at least brassard quality forwards.

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01-16-2013, 12:10 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Zib's concussions are getting him dangerously close to boom-or-bust territory (if he overcomes them, he's still a blue-chip #1C type, but they just keep coming)
While his concussions aren't to be over-looked, they hardly put him dangerously close to boom or bust. The kid 19 and was drafted last summer.

People on this board are way to quick to label someone.

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01-16-2013, 12:51 AM
  #41
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Bishop + Da Costa

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01-16-2013, 01:11 AM
  #42
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My problem is: if Last Spring, Colombus had offered Savard, Do you think St-Louis would had chosen Savard instead of a 2013 2nd from Ottawa ?

And if your answer is yes, then why Colombus would be willing to offer Savard for bishop now and not last spring ?

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01-16-2013, 01:18 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
My problem is: if Last Spring, Colombus had offered Savard, Do you think St-Louis would had chosen Savard instead of a 2013 2nd from Ottawa ?

And if your answer is yes, then why Colombus would be willing to offer Savard for bishop now and not last spring ?
Not that i think Bishop is worth Savard but Bishop's value is slightly higher now because he's improved his game; still dominated the AHL and looked decent in his 10 NHL games last season.

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01-16-2013, 01:35 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Not that i think Bishop is worth Savard but Bishop's value is slightly higher now because he's improved his game; still dominated the AHL and looked decent in his 10 NHL games last season.
its a good argument and i agree with you.

But did he improve his value to Colombus, especially since they acquired Brobovsky ?

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01-16-2013, 01:48 AM
  #45
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its a good argument and i agree with you.

But did he improve his value to Colombus, especially since they acquired Brobovsky ?
Columbus has no need for Bishop.

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01-16-2013, 02:23 AM
  #46
Nikita Filatov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
My problem is: if Last Spring, Colombus had offered Savard, Do you think St-Louis would had chosen Savard instead of a 2013 2nd from Ottawa ?

And if your answer is yes, then why Colombus would be willing to offer Savard for bishop now and not last spring ?
There's no way that they wanted to keep him in the division. Why trade him to a team that needs him like Columbus or Chicago where he could potentially come back and haunt them for years?

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01-16-2013, 06:28 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Lehner is the future. It would take Ryan Murray and Bishop looking like he can be a starter.
Sorry, but Lehner is overrated. Great prospect, but not in Ryan Murray territory.

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01-16-2013, 12:30 PM
  #48
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Sorry, but Lehner is overrated. Great prospect, but not in Ryan Murray territory.
Completely disagree. They both could play in the NHL right now and both can be a franchise player.

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01-16-2013, 12:52 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
I would absolutely give up hefty pieces for either Lehner or Markstrom...
For me, not a chance in hell. We've got a goaltender who as a prospect was truly awesome and "going to set the world on fire"; his name's Steve Mason.

Goaltending is just too damn flaky.

* * *
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Originally Posted by Xelace View Post
While his concussions aren't to be over-looked, they hardly put him dangerously close to boom or bust. The kid 19 and was drafted last summer.

People on this board are way to quick to label someone.
That it's happening so frequently and so early in his career, I think, makes the classification worthwhile.

That said, I concede that the situation can be (and has been) overstated. It's not that I wouldn't take him; I'm just not as eager as I might have been, say, half a year ago.

* * *
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Originally Posted by Manked View Post
Bishop + Da Costa
Clever idea, but it doesn't work for us. We've got a few guys like DaCosta, so don't really have a pressing need for another. The forward prospect types we need are of the "lol no way we trade him" variety.

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01-16-2013, 01:10 PM
  #50
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If CBJ can get Bishop for Savard I think they should take it and run. Savard is very over-hyped.

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