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Trading rules discussion (see post 50)

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Old
01-13-2013, 04:29 PM
  #76
EagleBelfour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
I don't like the penalty for trading on the clock at all. If we are giving GMs a certain amount of time each pick then they should be allowed to use that time however they see fit. There's absolutely no difference between someone using their entire clock to try to make a trade and using the clock to do research or to do some other non-ATD activity. Why is the person that's trading punished, but not the guy who waits till the last minute to do his player research or the guy who doesn't log on all day to see if it's his turn? There is a wide array of activities that hold up the draft...only one of them comes with a penalty. There's no solution, we just have to put trust in our fellow GMs to make their picks in a timely manner.


As a compromise, their should at least be a window in which trading is allowed. If someone is able to get a deal done without using an excessive amount of their clock then who cares? Either put a set time limit on it (within the first two hours), or base it on the total clock length (no penalty if the trade is made before 25% of your clock has elapsed).
I agree with the statement. Obviously every draft we are eager to make selection, but the time-clock is present for a reason. I also like the bolded proposition.

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01-13-2013, 06:13 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I agree with the statement. Obviously every draft we are eager to make selection, but the time-clock is present for a reason. I also like the bolded proposition.
Agreed, because only then can you and your trading partner be 100% sure of who is available and it doesn't really hold up the draft if you are only 25% in.

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Old
01-14-2013, 04:02 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I agree with the statement. Obviously every draft we are eager to make selection, but the time-clock is present for a reason. I also like the bolded proposition.
Who is going to keep track of where a GM is on his clock when he trades on the clock? I know it sounds easy, and by itself it is easy, but every little thing we have to administer adds up.

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Old
01-14-2013, 04:33 AM
  #79
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Wrote my propositions in the wrong thread here it is:

- 8 trades maximum
- 4 assets per trade maximum
- Vetoed trades counts toward the max
- Trade on the clock allowed in the first hour , else you lose an extra trade
- Swapping positions before the draft isn't a trade

The reason for letting an hour for a GM to make a trade on his clock is if the GM has only one player he's interested in and he's waiting for the GM before him to pick to see if his player is going to get picked.If that's the case , he should already have a trade in the making with another GM and he's entitled to do it in the first hour of his clock.


Last edited by BenchBrawl: 01-14-2013 at 04:44 AM.
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Old
01-14-2013, 07:02 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Who is going to keep track of where a GM is on his clock when he trades on the clock? I know it sounds easy, and by itself it is easy, but every little thing we have to administer adds up.
I understand. Although I believe it's quite easy to look it up. There's so many GM's lurking the ATD at all time of the day, impatient to speed up the draft, that I'm pretty certain people will be eager to point out how many time there's left for the GM to trade.

Maybe a better alternative is a fix time, less than 25%. On every selection, you can trade without penalty on the first hour on your clock. Anyway, discussion should already be on the way when it's your time to select.

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Old
01-14-2013, 07:26 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
Wrote my propositions in the wrong thread here it is:

- 8 trades maximum
- 4 assets per trade maximum
- Vetoed trades counts toward the max
- Trade on the clock allowed in the first hour , else you lose an extra trade
- Swapping positions before the draft isn't a trade

The reason for letting an hour for a GM to make a trade on his clock is if the GM has only one player he's interested in and he's waiting for the GM before him to pick to see if his player is going to get picked.If that's the case , he should already have a trade in the making with another GM and he's entitled to do it in the first hour of his clock.
Outside of losing an extra trade if you trade in the first hour, I'm okay with this. The clock should be yours to do with what you please.

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Old
01-14-2013, 08:28 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Outside of losing an extra trade if you trade in the first hour, I'm okay with this. The clock should be yours to do with what you please.
you don't lose anything if you trade in the first hour , it's after that that you would lose a trade in my proposal , though I think this is what you meant you were disagreeing with.

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Old
01-14-2013, 08:59 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
you don't lose anything if you trade in the first hour , it's after that that you would lose a trade in my proposal , though I think this is what you meant you were disagreeing with.
Yeah I just disagree with the whole concept.

It's your time on the clock. Do with it what you please, even if it takes the full time.

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01-14-2013, 09:31 AM
  #84
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I'm not strongly in favor of penalizing trades on the clock either , I would prefer if a certain penalty would be there , like clock reduction in the very least , but I wouldn't be pissed if nothing was done to prevent them.It's not a big deal to me.

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Old
01-14-2013, 12:27 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
After re-skimming the first few pages of the planning thread and finding this:



I tend to agree with you.
me too.

8 trades, 4 assets per.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
I don't like the penalty for trading on the clock at all. If we are giving GMs a certain amount of time each pick then they should be allowed to use that time however they see fit. There's absolutely no difference between someone using their entire clock to try to make a trade and using the clock to do research or to do some other non-ATD activity. Why is the person that's trading punished, but not the guy who waits till the last minute to do his player research or the guy who doesn't log on all day to see if it's his turn? There is a wide array of activities that hold up the draft...only one of them comes with a penalty. There's no solution, we just have to put trust in our fellow GMs to make their picks in a timely manner.
You make a good case.

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Old
01-14-2013, 12:31 PM
  #86
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I think we need a poll on whether there will be penalties for trading on the clock. Probably the last rules issue that needs to be put to a vote.

If there is a penalty, I think Sturm's idea of an on-the-clock trade counting as 2 trades against your limit makes a lot more sense than taking time off the clock.

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Old
01-14-2013, 12:38 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think we need a poll on whether there will be penalties for trading on the clock. Probably the last rules issue that needs to be put to a vote.

If there is a penalty, I think Sturm's idea of an on-the-clock trade counting as 2 trades against your limit makes a lot more sense than taking time off the clock.
Although I voiced my opinion, I really don't care which way we're going. Fine if we people want a poll, but the most important aspect of the draft's rule has been resolve.

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Old
01-14-2013, 12:41 PM
  #88
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Although I voiced my opinion, I really don't care which way we're going. Fine if we people want a poll, but the most important aspect of the draft's rule has been resolve.
I don't think it's a big deal to most people, but a quick 24-48 hour poll can't hurt. Meanwhile, we can finalize the other trading rules.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 01-14-2013 at 12:48 PM.
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Old
01-14-2013, 12:51 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
Wrote my propositions in the wrong thread here it is:

- 8 trades maximum
- 4 assets per trade maximum
- Vetoed trades counts toward the max
- Trade on the clock allowed in the first hour , else you lose an extra trade
- Swapping positions before the draft isn't a trade

The reason for letting an hour for a GM to make a trade on his clock is if the GM has only one player he's interested in and he's waiting for the GM before him to pick to see if his player is going to get picked.If that's the case , he should already have a trade in the making with another GM and he's entitled to do it in the first hour of his clock.
I'd say the following are basically agreed on:
  • 8 Trades Maximum
  • 4 assets per trade maximum
  • Swapping all positions before the draft isn't a trade

Does anyone else support the proposed idea of a 2 strikes and you're out rule for vetoed trades? Too harsh? The other option is that vetoed trades count towards the clock.

We have a poll on whether to allow trading on the clock. If we don't allow them, I agree with your suggested penalty - no penalty for a trade in the first hour, trading on the clock afterwards counts as 2 trades.

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Old
01-14-2013, 12:53 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think we need a poll on whether there will be penalties for trading on the clock. Probably the last rules issue that needs to be put to a vote.

If there is a penalty, I think Sturm's idea of an on-the-clock trade counting as 2 trades against your limit makes a lot more sense than taking time off the clock.
I think I like not having a rule at all.

But if there's going to be a rule, give it some teeth.

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Old
01-14-2013, 12:54 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Does anyone else support the proposed idea of a 2 strikes and you're out rule for vetoed trades? Too harsh? The other option is that vetoed trades count towards the clock.
How about just a vetoed trade counts as two, plus of course you don't get to make the deal? That's a pretty good deterrent.

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Old
01-16-2013, 07:49 AM
  #92
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
How about just a vetoed trade counts as two, plus of course you don't get to make the deal? That's a pretty good deterrent.
Works for me. Anyone think it's too harsh? Anyone care at all?

Also, anyone have a problem with continuing to use a trading committee to determine trades?

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Old
01-16-2013, 07:50 AM
  #93
BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Works for me. Anyone think it's too harsh? Anyone care at all?
1 or 2 trades towards the max , either way I'm fine with it.

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Old
01-16-2013, 07:53 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
too harsh , just make it count as 1 trade even though it doesn't happen.

I won't fight it to death though , no need to make a poll for this.Just toss a coin
What about this:

A vetoed trade counts as a trade against your limit (and you don't get to make the trade).

If a vetoed trade involves a rookie GM and a veteran GM, the rookie is not penalized and the vet loses two trades.

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Old
01-16-2013, 07:57 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Works for me. Anyone think it's too harsh? Anyone care at all?

Also, anyone have a problem with continuing to use a trading committee to determine trades?
I think it's totally fine and fair.

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Old
01-16-2013, 08:14 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
What about this:

A vetoed trade counts as a trade against your limit (and you don't get to make the trade).

If a vetoed trade involves a rookie GM and a veteran GM, the rookie is not penalized and the vet loses two trades.
I edited , again

Agreed with the first statement , completely disagree with the second.I don't like the whole double standard of it.

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Old
01-16-2013, 08:30 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
I edited , again

Agreed with the first statement , completely disagree with the second.I don't like the whole double standard of it.
You really think you should have been punished when 1 day into your first draft, a vet tried to take advantage of you?

Even if you don't want to give a vet an extra penalty for taking advantage of a rookie, I'm against rookie GMs being penalized for vetoed trades.

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01-16-2013, 08:36 AM
  #98
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New idea:

Any GM who has been in a previous ATD who has a trade vetoed loses 2 trades from his limit (and can't make the trade).

A rookie GM doesn't lose anything off his limit (but can't make the trade).

Actually, now that I think about it more, I think it should just be one lost trade per veto. If the penalty is too harsh, you make the trading committee reluctant to veto questionable trades

So I'd prefer 1 lost trade per veto, no lost trades for a rookie.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 01-16-2013 at 08:55 AM.
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Old
01-16-2013, 09:56 AM
  #99
BenchBrawl
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You really think you should have been punished when 1 day into your first draft, a vet tried to take advantage of you?

Even if you don't want to give a vet an extra penalty for taking advantage of a rookie, I'm against rookie GMs being penalized for vetoed trades.
It wasn't the same thing , we only had 3 trades and no rules were in place to warn me.

And looking at the list of GMs there isn't a lot of rookie GM that are alone.

A vet co-gm could use his rookie GM to trade witrhout risking penalty , and if it's only for rookie gms that are alone , we are talking about 1-3 team maximum , which is so few that I don't like to make exception for rules.

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Old
01-16-2013, 10:02 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
New idea:

Any GM who has been in a previous ATD who has a trade vetoed loses 2 trades from his limit (and can't make the trade).

A rookie GM doesn't lose anything off his limit (but can't make the trade).

Actually, now that I think about it more, I think it should just be one lost trade per veto. If the penalty is too harsh, you make the trading committee reluctant to veto questionable trades

So I'd prefer 1 lost trade per veto, no lost trades for a rookie.
I'm fine with this

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