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P.K Subban Thread 2.0

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:31 AM
  #401
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
While I would prefer PK Subban, they are comparable players.
Cam Fowler is one of the worst top four defencemen in the NHL defensively. There is no comparison.

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01-16-2013, 09:32 AM
  #402
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Looking at the schedule, can't really afford a bad start. If we have a bad start were toast
Yep. The NHL gave the Habs a really easy schedule to start. Tons of home games to start against teams are just not that good. If they start something like 2-5-2, which I would definitely believe is possible sans Subban, that would be a sign this team is going nowhere this year because it's only going to get tougher from that point on.

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01-16-2013, 09:32 AM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Just wondering, do you actually cheer for Montreal?

It's really not clear.
It's very clear that I cheer for Montreal: I want the team to win the cup. That's the thrust of most of my posts.

Exhibit A: I want Subban to be locked up long-term to a respectful salary.

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01-16-2013, 09:35 AM
  #404
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Cam Fowler is one of the worst top four defencemen in the NHL defensively. There is no comparison.
Cam Fowler has also just turned 21 and has been in the league the same number of years putting up impressive numbers. He will get better defensively.

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01-16-2013, 09:37 AM
  #405
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
They're a marginally better team, but the difference between 15th place and 8th place is huge.

Without Subban, they are probably an inferior team though.

They could of course sign Subban any day, and then I'll maintain my prior prediction of 11th-15th place, but without Subban, I'll assume 14th-15th place, and I think that's sad.

And yes, if the Habs do badly, you will need to come to terms with the fact your predictions were wrong.
How is the gap from 8th to 15th huge?

The Habs were like 1 point from 8th when martin was fired and 5-6 weeks later they were 13th or 14th. That's a ridiculous statement if I ever heard one.

I look at teams like Ottawa Florida Washington, they all made the playoffs last year with similar GF GA last yaer(all 3 combined are -23, Habs are -14). Florida was 3rd seed with a worst +- than us FFS!

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01-16-2013, 09:38 AM
  #406
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P.K hasn't been more important, different players = different roles...
Silly me. I thought being top pairing on the PP, the PK and ES plays for two years made you more important than the guy who played only one year in the top PK and ES pairing.

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You're acting like P.k is the be all end all player for Montreal but it just truly isn't true.
Except for Price, I hardly see any players being the be all end all. Yet PK is certainly one of our most important players.

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Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh View Post
Rumors have said that he isn't very well liked in the dressing room as is and now he'll likely miss the Toronto game do you think his teammates are going to greet him with open arms or are they going to think he's a selfish little punk.
I don't know. And you don't either. You have no idea if he is actually disliked, and why. you don't know the sort of attitude he'll have coming back, or how his teammates will behave toward him. You just make an argument out of ass-air.

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Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh View Post
The Canadiens like to sign their young players to two year contract bridges to see if they can be consistent in their play before giving up big money.
Considering his age and experience, PK has been extremely consistent as our key D-man in the past two years. If he hadn't been, I hardly see why they would have kept sending him into that position.

It's not to say PK has been perfect; he just been a heavyweight on our roster since january 2011.

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Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh View Post
It wouldn't even surprise me if P.K is traded, I don't want him to be traded obviously but before going on a rampage I'll look at the player or players we received and go from there. He is selfish quite honestly for now he doesn't deserve to have a contract like Eberle or Hall. I thought P.K would be different but he is only thinking about himself and the more money he can get, if you're that confident in your abilities sign a short term contract and prove you can be a true #1 d-man.
Blablabla you hate Subban, we get it. Thank you very much.

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01-16-2013, 09:40 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How is the gap from 8th to 15th huge?

The Habs were like 1 point from 8th when martin was fired and 5-6 weeks later they were 13th or 14th. That's a ridiculous statement if I ever heard one.

I look at teams like Ottawa Florida Washington, they all made the playoffs last year with similar GF GA last yaer(all 3 combined are -23, Habs are -14). Florida was 3rd seed with a worst +- than us FFS!
I think he means that the difference in what you get to draft is huge. And if PK doesn't sign and we're a few points worse off then we'll be drafting in the top 5.

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01-16-2013, 09:40 AM
  #408
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Where does the impression that PK Subban is awful defensively come from?

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01-16-2013, 09:42 AM
  #409
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Where does the impression that PK Subban is awful defensively come from?
His number of turnovers. He tries stuff that doesn't necessarily convert, and that often lead to a turnover.

When he plays his defensive game, he's awesome defensively.

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01-16-2013, 09:43 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh View Post
Cam Fowler has also just turned 21 and has been in the league the same number of years putting up impressive numbers. He will get better defensively.
Not really. Being from Essex County, I watched my share of Cam Fowler games in Windsor. The boy was never good defensively. His World Junior play for Team USA was a real anomaly. He'll be the Patrice Brisebois of the Ducks franchise unless they find someone better to push him down the depth charts. The Ducks thought it was fine to sign a 21 year old to a $4M per year extension despite his defensive play. I promise you that Meehan is pointing at the Fowler contract and the Doughty contract and saying, "Let's try to meet somewhere in the middle"

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01-16-2013, 09:44 AM
  #411
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If Bergevin offered him 8M$ for two years (4M$ per season), how many games can Subban miss in an effort to receive a 6 years offer? After 2-3 weeks, what would be the impact of such a decision regarding his team’s chance to reach the playoffs?

I hope both sides will soon agree to sign a one year deal worth 4,5M$.

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01-16-2013, 09:44 AM
  #412
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To the Tankers..

http://www.985sports.ca/hockey/nouve...nt-201254.html

Only PK left, and this will be done by the weekend. Sorry of we dissapoint and have a great season !

Go Go

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:46 AM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
If Bergevin offered him 8M$ for two years (4M$ per season), how many games can Subban miss in an effort to receive a 6 years offer? After 2-3 weeks, what would be the impact of such a decision regarding his team’s chance to reach the playoffs?

I hope both sides will soon agree to sign a one year deal worth 4,5M$.
I can see that...it's either that or he sits imo.

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:51 AM
  #414
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I feel like Bergevin will end up offering a contract he's not comfortable with just to get Subban on the ice for the season opener.

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01-16-2013, 09:51 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by ZARTONK View Post
I feel like Bergevin will end up offering a contract he's not comfortable with just to get Subban on the ice for the season opener.
Which is fine. As a GM, you can't win every negotiation. Sometimes you have to do what's best for the team on the ice.

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01-16-2013, 09:53 AM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
I think he means that the difference in what you get to draft is huge. And if PK doesn't sign and we're a few points worse off then we'll be drafting in the top 5.
I would be shocked if PK isn't in the lineup by next weekend(the 26th) so it won't have a huge impact on the standings.

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:54 AM
  #417
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
His number of turnovers. He tries stuff that doesn't necessarily convert, and that often lead to a turnover.

When he plays his defensive game, he's awesome defensively.
That's normal for players who tend to handle the puck as much as PK does...but it blows me away that people think he's not good defensively.

I think his offensive game is way behind his defensive game

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:54 AM
  #418
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
To the Tankers..

http://www.985sports.ca/hockey/nouve...nt-201254.html

Only PK left, and this will be done by the weekend. Sorry of we dissapoint and have a great season !

Go Go
Good to see that Pleks is back.

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:57 AM
  #419
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Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
Well part of the trouble is that we are going on pure speculation and opinion and we don't know the workings of MB's team. I'm willing to bet they have salary structures laid out and a gameplan already created for building a winning team. And considering PK hasn't signed yet, they haven't been able to come to an agreement so it fits.

We can all have the opinions we want if PK is great or not, in the end he is just one player that has to fit an entire gameplan that is managed by MB.

I want to win, I couldn't care less about PK getting max money...sometimes you have to take a hometown discount to let management make the entire team better, and that's what I personally care about.

I'm a PK fan if he is a hab, if he isn't then i'll cheer for the next guy that puts on the jersey.

Look at it this way, it's Meehan's job to get PK as much money as possible...it's MB's job to make the habs a good team and at this point I have to trust that MB knows what he is doing. He has the habs interests in mind, whereas Meehan only has his own and PK's.
You do not operate negotiations in thinking every player needs to go through the same structure. If you agree on the simple notion that not everybody has the same development and progress, then I don't see why every player should follow the same structure.

I also disagree on just being a player. PK is your BEST player, he's not just a player you can easily replace. I'm just like you in the sense that its a team game, not any player should be bigger than the team, I don't think thinking you're worth more than a 2year deal when you've been the most used player on your team, and doing a good job at it, means you think your bigger than the team. We're not talking about a player who's playing 13-14min a game and still has a lot to prove, so I don't see why he'd had to follow the same path as other players who have proven a ton less than him.

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:57 AM
  #420
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Which is fine. As a GM, you can't win every negotiation. Sometimes you have to do what's best for the team on the ice.

And that’s (the bolded part) what Bergevin is doing: in a league with a salary cap, you can’t win if you do not have a team contractual structure.

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01-16-2013, 09:57 AM
  #421
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http://awinninghabit.com/2012/08/15/...-to-his-peers/

Please read this everyone. Sure he can be dangerous at times, but he is a very very good hockey player and we need to sign him long term.

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01-16-2013, 09:59 AM
  #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZARTONK View Post
I feel like Bergevin will end up offering a contract he's not comfortable with just to get Subban on the ice for the season opener.
Man I hope not...

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Which is fine. As a GM, you can't win every negotiation. Sometimes you have to do what's best for the team on the ice.
I suppose you could change your future moves to compensate but personally I'd prefer if MB stuck to his guns because it is for the better of the team in the long run. That is of course assuming that his objective is to win the cup.

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01-16-2013, 10:02 AM
  #423
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You do not operate negotiations in thinking every player needs to go through the same structure. If you agree on the simple notion that not everybody has the same development and progress, then I don't see why every player should follow the same structure.

I also disagree on just being a player. PK is your BEST player, he's not just a player you can easily replace. I'm just like you in the sense that its a team game, not any player should be bigger than the team, I don't think thinking you're worth more than a 2year deal when you've been the most used player on your team, and doing a good job at it, means you think your bigger than the team. We're not talking about a player who's playing 13-14min a game and still has a lot to prove, so I don't see why he'd had to follow the same path as other players who have proven a ton less than him.
Not about following the 'same structure' it's about following the structure that MB thinks we need to follow. He is more informed than we are imo.

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01-16-2013, 10:06 AM
  #424
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Still far apart
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=413662

Is it possible that PK misses the whole season ? Who knows.

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Old
01-16-2013, 10:07 AM
  #425
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Still far apart
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=413662

Is it possible that PK misses the whole season ? Who knows.
According to his agent. The exact opposite of an unbiased source.

Ask Bergevin he'll tell you there are only a few minor details to be worked out and the deal will be done shortly.

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