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Old
01-16-2013, 12:30 PM
  #476
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SO THE BILLIONAIRE OWNERS HELD THE MILLIONAIRE PLAYERS AND THIS IS THE ANSWER?SUBAN HOLDS OUT NOT ONE PRACTICE i THOUGHT THEY PLAYED FOR THE LOVE OF THE GAME?I'm just an adiot for thinking that

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01-16-2013, 12:32 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I agree especially since we have no idea what's out there by either side. Having said that, perception is reality. And people in the end will often be on the management side and especially in Montreal where the more money you make....the more people can boo you if you don't produce. Price had it tough...but I can't imagine how tough he will have if he doesn't make the big saves. Same for Subban. Would make no sense to me how Subban and Co would be asking for Doughty money, so I would be tempted to call him some names if true....but since it doesn't make any sense, and since we have no idea if it's true or not....the name calling is indeed sad. Especially since we will be the ones cheering him the day he scores 1.
Actually, IMO, it makes complete sense...As an agent, you're job is to get max dollars. So as long as it can be proven reasonably, you ask for the higher end of a contract.

That's just basic stuff...i'm sure he doesn't expect Doughty money, but it's just smart business to ask for it IMO.

But again, why do fans NEED to choose sides when teams negotiate with players?

Contract negotiations are a process, it's the unfortunate side of business in sports...just let it play itself out.

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01-16-2013, 12:34 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh View Post
He said publicly that he's looking for the same kind of contract skinner hall and eberle had, don't try to be sarcastic if you don't know anything.
Assuming what you're saying is true...what's wrong with that?

If his agent publically states that he wants Michael Del Zotto money, then PK should fire Don Meehan immediately.

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01-16-2013, 12:35 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
This kind of attitude kills me...

ANYONE on this board, if given the opportunity to negotiate their salary...wouldn't just accept anything that's proposed.

There's a negotiation process, it may not be fun for fans...but I think it's important to respect the player AND the team as they work through it.

There's no need to take it personally...the 'spoiled brat' comments are just ridiculous and immature.
Of course I negotiate salary, I don't take my employer hostage because he isn't giving me what I want though. Also, I've been doing this (graphic design) for 3 years, I know I can command a certain salary based on talent and experience, but I sure as hell don't have the balls to ask for a senior's salary or try to compare myself with people who have a long list of achievements. That day will come, but not today.

That's why he's looking like a spoiled brat. He wants to stay here long term, the organization wants the same thing and this is dragging on and on and on. IMO he should've been practicing with his teammates at camp instead of holding out for his contract. A comparable was just signed between MDZ and NYR, I don't see what's holding him up other than he wants more.

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01-16-2013, 12:35 PM
  #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thom View Post
SO THE BILLIONAIRE OWNERS HELD THE MILLIONAIRE PLAYERS AND THIS IS THE ANSWER?SUBAN HOLDS OUT NOT ONE PRACTICE i THOUGHT THEY PLAYED FOR THE LOVE OF THE GAME?I'm just an adiot for thinking that
He doesn't have a contract. Why would he practice with the team? To risk potentially getting injured?

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Old
01-16-2013, 12:36 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by thom View Post
SO THE BILLIONAIRE OWNERS HELD THE MILLIONAIRE PLAYERS AND THIS IS THE ANSWER?SUBAN HOLDS OUT NOT ONE PRACTICE i THOUGHT THEY PLAYED FOR THE LOVE OF THE GAME?I'm just an adiot for thinking that
He's practicing with the Leafs.

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01-16-2013, 12:37 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
He's practicing with the Leafs.
With the team or alone?

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01-16-2013, 12:37 PM
  #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I agree especially since we have no idea what's out there by either side. Having said that, perception is reality. And people in the end will often be on the management side and especially in Montreal where the more money you make....the more people can boo you if you don't produce. Price had it tough...but I can't imagine how tough he will have if he doesn't make the big saves. Same for Subban. Would make no sense to me how Subban and Co would be asking for Doughty money, so I would be tempted to call him some names if true....but since it doesn't make any sense, and since we have no idea if it's true or not....the name calling is indeed sad. Especially since we will be the ones cheering him the day he scores 1.
Big money brings big expectations. And I don't blame the habs for not wanting to give him that money yet.

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01-16-2013, 12:39 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Assuming what you're saying is true...what's wrong with that?

If his agent publically states that he wants Michael Del Zotto money, then PK should fire Don Meehan immediately.
MDZ decided for the better of the team to sign a two year 5.1 million contract to prove himself further and be worth a long term contract for the Rangers. P.K makes the decisions, he is also looking for that 5.5-6 million dollar long term contract. He hasn't proved himself enough to be worth that kind of money and will all the big contracts we currently have in our system it's just not worth it. If P.K is as confident as he is he should sign a two year deal and prove himself further. Clearly you didn't get my point P.K and Meehan are looking for major money.

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01-16-2013, 12:40 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
He's practicing with the Leafs.
Before the CBA was signed, not now.

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01-16-2013, 12:41 PM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaby23 View Post
With the team or alone?
Not sure but I think it's by himself. He lives around there so I guess it's no big deal... Would prefer he'd practice here though.

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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
Before the CBA was signed, not now.
He's still there though...

Quote:
Subban is from Toronto so he intends to skate at the MasterCard Centre with other players as long as he can. He won’t be heading to Montreal until he has a signed contract.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...real-canadiens

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Old
01-16-2013, 12:41 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh View Post
He said publicly that he's looking for the same kind of contract skinner hall and eberle had, don't try to be sarcastic if you don't know anything.
From what I remember referenced them in regards to the term (to eat up UFA years), not the $ amount.

Comparing his pay to that of forwards is a bit illogical to say the least.

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01-16-2013, 12:41 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Actually, IMO, it makes complete sense...As an agent, you're job is to get max dollars. So as long as it can be proven reasonably, you ask for the higher end of a contract.

That's just basic stuff...i'm sure he doesn't expect Doughty money, but it's just smart business to ask for it IMO.

But again, why do fans NEED to choose sides when teams negotiate with players?

Contract negotiations are a process, it's the unfortunate side of business in sports...just let it play itself out.
At this point, it doesn't make sense. Ask Doughty's money all you want AT THE START OF THE NEGOTIATION which was in the summer. But they can't still be at this point now or then it doesn't make sense. How can you split in the middle if the Subban is STILL at Doughty's money? If the Subban camp can't move from this, I'm sorry, but he'll never get signed or will be traded and not even sure if there's someobyd crazy enough to give him that. Which in the end, makes me believe that even if they started with that the first day of the negotiation, they can't be at that anymore. This is a 48-game season here. The guy didn't play in the winter, missed a full 1-week of practices and still would be at Doughty and it would make sense? Not anymore.

And people choose sides because now it's crunch time and if we don't have one of our most important player, somebody needs to be accountable for it. Nobody would say a word if, during a season, a player and his team would be in the long process of renegotiating even if it takes 2 or 3 months 'cause it would not affect anything. But now? It does.

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Old
01-16-2013, 12:43 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
What makes you think he's asking for superstar money(8-10 mil/year)?
Please with the new CBA big contracts in the future are going to be about 6 million.

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01-16-2013, 12:43 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
You're talking about a contractual structure when he opened the vault and gave 2.5 M per year to a deluxe grinder? OK...
The deluxe grinder was exactly what we needed upfront: a Neil type, a tough guy who can play hockey. And, contrary to Subban, he was UFA.

If Bergevin offered RFA Subban a two years contract worth 8M$ (4M$ per season), I hope PK’s reaction won’t be to stay at home for another 2-3 weeks. It would not please the fans nor would it please his teammates imo.

At this point all I wish for is a one year deal worth 4,5M$.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
According to his agent. The exact opposite of an unbiased source.

Ask Bergevin he'll tell you there are only a few minor details to be worked out and the deal will be done shortly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
Exactly, and we know that the latter is the truth.
As underlined by 99GoHabsGo99:

(It appears that when the Montreal Canadiens open their season at home against the rival Toronto Maple Leafs on Saturday night, there is a growing likelihood that they will do so without restricted free agent defenceman P.K. Subban.
Subban's agent Don Meehan was contacted by the Montreal Gazette on Tuesday for an update on talks, and the agent's response was not positive.

"No news to report today," Meehan told the Gazette. "We are not close to an agreement."...)


Ref.: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=413662


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 01-16-2013 at 12:51 PM.
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Old
01-16-2013, 12:44 PM
  #491
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Couldn't they just file for arbitration and call it a day?

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01-16-2013, 12:45 PM
  #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strik_IX View Post
Of course I negotiate salary, I don't take my employer hostage because he isn't giving me what I want though. Also, I've been doing this (graphic design) for 3 years, I know I can command a certain salary based on talent and experience, but I sure as hell don't have the balls to ask for a senior's salary or try to compare myself with people who have a long list of achievements. That day will come, but not today.

That's why he's looking like a spoiled brat. He wants to stay here long term, the organization wants the same thing and this is dragging on and on and on. IMO he should've been practicing with his teammates at camp instead of holding out for his contract. A comparable was just signed between MDZ and NYR, I don't see what's holding him up other than he wants more.
So in other words...if you COULD, you WOULD.

Also, how is he taking his employer hostage? I don't get what you mean? How do you know it's not the Habs who are low balling him? If you're current employer offered you a new contract which you thought wasn't worthy of your contributions and your talents, would you just shut up and sign it?

Maybe you would, because you have no other chocie...but PK does have a choice. He can sit at home and use his absence as a negotiation tool. It's well within his right, just like it's within the Montreal Canadiens right to not budge at all and let him sweat it out.

As for him practicing with his teamates while he negotiated a contract? How dumb would that be? His agent is trying to negotiate a contract on his behalf, and he's hired to get the best possible contract for his client. Having PK practicing with the Habs takes away a whole lot of leverage for him...that makes no sense

As for MDZ...I don't see why he should sign a comparable contract and if the Habs are indeed trying to sign him to the same type of contract...then not only do I understand Subban/Meehan's position, but I fully support it.

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01-16-2013, 12:45 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
From what I remember referenced them in regards to the term (to eat up UFA years), not the $ amount.

Comparing his pay to that of forwards is a bit illogical to say the least.
Why would that be? if Meehan and P.K feel he is worth about 5-6 million he can compare contracts with the ones a forward had, same kind of length and pay.

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01-16-2013, 12:47 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh View Post
Why would that be? if Meehan and P.K feel he is worth about 5-6 million he can compare contracts with the ones a forward had, same kind of length and pay.
Because it's comparing apples to oranges, obviously.

And again, he referenced those contracts, sure, but he never said what amount he was looking for. They were talking terms right before he referenced them IIRC. Reality is, no one here knows exactly what Meehan asked for, or what Bergevin is offering. So far we've heard people saying Meehan is asking for Doughty money, others saying Del Zotto money, and others saying Eberle money. All speculation at this point. The only people who know for certain are involved in the negotiations.

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01-16-2013, 12:48 PM
  #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh View Post
MDZ decided for the better of the team to sign a two year 5.1 million contract to prove himself further and be worth a long term contract for the Rangers. P.K makes the decisions, he is also looking for that 5.5-6 million dollar long term contract. He hasn't proved himself enough to be worth that kind of money and will all the big contracts we currently have in our system it's just not worth it. If P.K is as confident as he is he should sign a two year deal and prove himself further. Clearly you didn't get my point P.K and Meehan are looking for major money.
Dear God

MDZ signed that deal because he thought it was a fair deal...had the Rangers offered less, he'd still be holding out.

But MDZ is MDZ...PK Subban is PK Subban.

Also I COMPLETELY disagree that PK hasn't proven himself yet...quite the opposite actually. And therein lies the problem

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01-16-2013, 12:50 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
At this point, it doesn't make sense. Ask Doughty's money all you want AT THE START OF THE NEGOTIATION which was in the summer. But they can't still be at this point now or then it doesn't make sense. How can you split in the middle if the Subban is STILL at Doughty's money? If the Subban camp can't move from this, I'm sorry, but he'll never get signed or will be traded and not even sure if there's someobyd crazy enough to give him that. Which in the end, makes me believe that even if they started with that the first day of the negotiation, they can't be at that anymore. This is a 48-game season here. The guy didn't play in the winter, missed a full 1-week of practices and still would be at Doughty and it would make sense? Not anymore.

And people choose sides because now it's crunch time and if we don't have one of our most important player, somebody needs to be accountable for it. Nobody would say a word if, during a season, a player and his team would be in the long process of renegotiating even if it takes 2 or 3 months 'cause it would not affect anything. But now? It does.
Agreed on all of this...but no one really knows what PK Subban and his agent are asking for. It's all rumors

And as i've said quite a few times...rumors when it concerns PK Subban, tend to take on a life of their own.

As for choosing sides, I equate it to the lockout...I didn't understand it then, I don't understand it now. Player salaries are between team and player, it doesn't involve fans, so I don't see why I need to take it personally. The age of information and salary disclosures, has turned every average fan into a salary cap specialist...

Just be a fan man lol

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01-16-2013, 12:51 PM
  #497
Dr Gonzo
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I'm just going to leave this right here:

Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs
For those "authoritatively" quoting @PKSubban1's wishes: you're guessing. Subban camp & #Habs know offers from both sides. No one else


p.s. Stubbs actually talks to Subban on a regular basis, unlike all the rumour mongers out there.

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01-16-2013, 12:51 PM
  #498
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Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh View Post
Please with the new CBA big contracts in the future are going to be about 6 million.
Not even close. Even guys like Perry and Getzlaf will get 7.5-8.5 mil/year on upcoming deals. Malkin will get 9+ by the time he gets his extension.

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01-16-2013, 12:53 PM
  #499
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Dear God

MDZ signed that deal because he thought it was a fair deal...had the Rangers offered less, he'd still be holding out.

But MDZ is MDZ...PK Subban is PK Subban.

Also I COMPLETELY disagree that PK hasn't proven himself yet...quite the opposite actually. And therein lies the problem
How exactly has he proven himself to be worth alot of money he's only played in the NHL two season. He hasn't shown that can be a consistent #1 d-man in the NHL.

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01-16-2013, 12:53 PM
  #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Actually, IMO, it makes complete sense...As an agent, you're job is to get max dollars. So as long as it can be proven reasonably, you ask for the higher end of a contract.

That's just basic stuff...i'm sure he doesn't expect Doughty money, but it's just smart business to ask for it IMO.

But again, why do fans NEED to choose sides when teams negotiate with players?

Contract negotiations are a process, it's the unfortunate side of business in sports...just let it play itself out.
For me it's simple, I'm a habs fan so I want them to sign him to a deal that gives them enough money to make the rest of the players happy when we need to pay them too.

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