what is so funny about that the guy used to be a top 15 dman in the league not so long ago. If he can play up to half of that he should be fine.
I don't understand the hate about Kaberle, he had awful stats with the canes last year (29 games, 9 points and -12) but with the habs, even though his play was soft and not on par with how he played in the past, he had 22 points in 43 games and ended a -6 on a god awful team.
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, I think he will have a great season.
He was never a top 15 d-man. He has always been terrible in his own end and was overrated due to the Toronto media and fanbase.
To be a top 15 d-man you have to be a legitimate #1, which he never was.....
No he was not overrated on Toronto. He was their number one defensman for most of his career their. He is not what he used to be but im fairly certain he can handle playing 20 minutes a night in all situations.
Pretty clear that the 13th forward spot belongs to Blunden till Nokie comes back. Therrien doesn't want a young player in the stands. And Blunden has no real future with us so he will be the lucky winner.
If that was the case, Blunden would have been here from the start of training camp, no?
He was never a top 15 d-man. He has always been terrible in his own end and was overrated due to the Toronto media and fanbase.
To be a top 15 d-man you have to be a legitimate #1, which he never was.....
That's ********. He played on a crappy team and had to play a lot of tough minutes, so if he was even below average defensively he'd have been -50 every year.
At his best he was a top 10 guy(in the NHL) offensively and above average defensively. Based on the measuring stick some people use there are only like 10 d-men in the friggen NHL that are above average defensively(plus 50 that are average and 150 that suck defensively).
I can put together a 30 minute video of Chara, Suter, Weber, Lidstrom, Regehr, Seabrook, Doughty, Staal, Timonen etc making brutal giveaways or getting undressed on defense. Point being bad plays happen to the best of them and will happen to Markov Kaberle and Subban, it doesn't make them "bad defensively".
Arpon Basu @ArponBasu
Therrien says he expects Kaberle to play a major role for #Habs this season, top-4 minutes, PP, PK, everything. So there's that.
even in his peak form, I don't want Kaberle on the PK.
I used to consider Kaberle the poor man's Markov, in retrospect Markov was a far better 5 on 5 player, but Kaberle still had a good career. I wouldn't write him off yet.
being a Torontonian I have the misfortune of having seen many Leafs games. I don't believe he played much on the PK, and if so he did it poorly.
I'm far from someone who thinks he should be bought out, he's okay to use in the top 4 ES (with Gorges, Markov with Emelin) and a very good powerplay QB (although it is true that he never shoots), but he should stay far away from the PK/top pair.
Wait and see with Kabs. I have never been a big Kabs backer, however stick him with Gorges and Kabs "could" have a decent season (least until PK is back )
2009-10: 0:06 AVG SH TOI/G
2008-09: 1:09 AVG SH TOI/G
2007-08: 1:22 AVG SH TOI/G
2006-07: 3:34 AVG SH TOI/G
2005-06: 4:31 AVG SH TOI/G
So yes, he was used as on the 1st pairing on the PK after the lockout but it quickly dropped to 2nd pairing in 2007-08 to no use on the PK at all 3 years ago.
I just checked the year after the lock out, he had 4:31 per game. 05-06
3:34 in 06-07
1:22 in 07-08
1:07 in 08-09
0.06 in 09-10
0.17 in 10-11
3.29 in 03-04
even in his peak form, I don't want Kaberle on the PK.
It wan't so long ago that the Bruins sent a first round pick to the Leafs to have Kaberle play for them for part of a season (and help them win a championship). The Habs had been juggling quite a few duds on their PP before they traded a spare part like Spacek for him. I'll take Kaberle over Weber any day.
Unit #1A - Markov/Emelin with Markov as the setup guy and Emelin as the shooter
Unit #1B - Diaz/Subban with Diaz as the setup guy and Subban as the shooter
It keeps two RH's together and two LH's together but this idea does not solve the problem of what to do with Kaberle. He is a setup guy not a shooter but plays the wrong side to set up Subban properly and isn't likely to take Markov's spot... at leas to begin with.
thats pretty much the way i see it. hopefully they do this at some point.
as for kaberle hoping they will trade him after the early season showcase
That's ********. He played on a crappy team and had to play a lot of tough minutes, so if he was even below average defensively he'd have been -50 every year.
At his best he was a top 10 guy(in the NHL) offensively and above average defensively. Based on the measuring stick some people use there are only like 10 d-men in the friggen NHL that are above average defensively(plus 50 that are average and 150 that suck defensively).
I can put together a 30 minute video of Chara, Suter, Weber, Lidstrom, Regehr, Seabrook, Doughty, Staal, Timonen etc making brutal giveaways or getting undressed on defense. Point being bad plays happen to the best of them and will happen to Markov Kaberle and Subban, it doesn't make them "bad defensively".
I have seen more of Kaberle than anyone on this board......book it. He was always a liability in his own end and was a common whipping boy in Toronto when they got eliminated every year from the playoffs. He is incredibly soft and one of the worst d-men in the league in front of his own net.
He was always a great skater/passer but in order for him to get the puck, somebody would have to pass it to him as he rarely took it from an attacker. A true #1 plays in all situations and is not a liability in any aspect of the game. He was never a mainstay on the pk due to his lack of physicality but saw plenty of minutes overall because Toronto's defence corps was usually very bad and he was on for entire PP's more often than not.
If you want to look at stats and draw your conclusions from that........it is common practice on these boards. I prefer to use actual observations.
It wan't so long ago that the Bruins sent a first round pick to the Leafs to have Kaberle play for them for part of a season (and help them win a championship). The Habs had been juggling quite a few duds on their PP before they traded a spare part like Spacek for him. I'll take Kaberle over Weber any day.
The previous poster said that he wouldn't want him on the PK.
Boston acquired him for their woefull powerplay with hopes that he could feed Chara for the one-timer. Boston was considered a serious contender and the only piece that they were missing was a powerplay quarterback to play with Chara.
Boston grossly overpaid for him and that was shown by his paltry return in the Carolina trade. They still went on to win the Cup but let Kaberle walk as he was a huge disappointment.
Arpon Basu @ArponBasu
Therrien says he expects Kaberle to play a major role for #Habs this season, top-4 minutes, PP, PK, everything. So there's that.
What's really funny is in a bad year Kaberle gets around the same amount of points Subban gets in a good year yet Kaberle isn't top 4 while Subban is right up there beside Crosby. Gorges does one heck of a job I guess
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet
The previous poster said that he wouldn't want him on the PK.
Boston acquired him for their woefull powerplay with hopes that he could feed Chara for the one-timer. Boston was considered a serious contender and the only piece that they were missing was a powerplay quarterback to play with Chara.
Boston grossly overpaid for him and that was shown by his paltry return in the Carolina trade. They still went on to win the Cup but let Kaberle walk as he was a huge disappointment.
Actually they tried to sign him but why let reality get in the way of this circle jerk?
Last edited by OneSharpMarble: 01-16-2013 at 01:03 PM.
I'm actually happy to hear Therrien wants to give Kaberle a better role. He's probably someone who works better with more responsabilities and the fact that Therrien considers him for them means he's already showing to be in much better shape than last year.
I'm actually happy to hear Therrien wants to give Kaberle a better role. He's probably someone who works better with more responsabilities and the fact that Therrien considers him for them means he's already showing to be in much better shape than last year.
Therrien certainly is a better "people's-coach" than Martin or Cunneyworth (?) were. Maybe he gets his player more..?
Arpon Basu @ArponBasu
Therrien says he expects Kaberle to play a major role for #Habs this season, top-4 minutes, PP, PK, everything. So there's that.
I like that Therrien has matched up Kaberle with Gorges. The guy still has skills but also some obvious issues in his own zone. Gorges being our most steady and reliable defenceman I could see them complementing each other well. I don't know what happens once PK is in the mix but I like the idea of the Kaberle-Gorges pairing and am interested to see how it turns out.
I have seen more of Kaberle than anyone on this board......book it. He was always a liability in his own end and was a common whipping boy in Toronto when they got eliminated every year from the playoffs. He is incredibly soft and one of the worst d-men in the league in front of his own net.
He was always a great skater/passer but in order for him to get the puck, somebody would have to pass it to him as he rarely took it from an attacker. A true #1 plays in all situations and is not a liability in any aspect of the game. He was never a mainstay on the pk due to his lack of physicality but saw plenty of minutes overall because Toronto's defence corps was usually very bad and he was on for entire PP's more often than not.
If you want to look at stats and draw your conclusions from that........it is common practice on these boards. I prefer to use actual observations.
Toronto didn't get eliminated from the Playoffs because Kaberle was bad, it's because they had weak goaltending and no depth.
Lots of soft defensemen have been among the best. Ray Bourque is in the Hall of Fame and Lidstrom will join him soon. By your definition they'd be on the 3rd pair and only play PP's.
even in his peak form, I don't want Kaberle on the PK.
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