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01-16-2013, 11:54 AM
  #501
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
The deluxe grinder was exactly what we needed upfront: a Neil type, a tough guy who can play hockey. And, contrary to Subban, he was UFA.
You can not convince me that GM who gives Brandon Prust 2.5 M per year has a ''contractual structure'' for his team in place, no matter how much he is needed on the ice with his intangibles. Paying a deluxe 4th liner that type of money is a sure way to find yourself in cap hell before long unless the cap goes to like 75 M by year 3 of the deal. Every decent player or better on this team is going to look at Prust's deal and think they should be paid far more.

Thankfully he somehow got Pacioretty done at 4.5 M per year through his prime to soften the blow.

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At this point all I wish for is a one year deal worth 4,5M$.
I agree with you here, this is the best solution at this point.

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01-16-2013, 11:55 AM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Because it's comparing apples to oranges, obviously.

And again, he referenced those contracts, sure, but he never said what amount he was looking for. They were talking terms right before he referenced them IIRC. Reality is, no one here knows exactly what Meehan asked for, or what Bergevin is offering. So far we've heard people saying Meehan is asking for Doughty money, others saying Del Zotto money, and others saying Eberle money. All speculation at this point. The only people who know for certain are involved in the negotiations.
Have you read the whole article Meehan WAS comparing P.K to these young forwards. It's obvious that he wants the same kind of contract for P.K and how do you know Subban won't be a 30 point player with average defense for his career. Especially with the new CBA you just don't give up that kind of money to a player like that.

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01-16-2013, 11:56 AM
  #503
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Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh View Post
MDZ decided for the better of the team to sign a two year 5.1 million contract to prove himself further and be worth a long term contract for the Rangers. P.K makes the decisions, he is also looking for that 5.5-6 million dollar long term contract. He hasn't proved himself enough to be worth that kind of money and will all the big contracts we currently have in our system it's just not worth it. If P.K is as confident as he is he should sign a two year deal and prove himself further. Clearly you didn't get my point P.K and Meehan are looking for major money.
One D played just over 24 min/game, the other played just over 22 min/game. One played top pairing shutdown even strength minutes, other played 2nd pairing even strength minutes. One played 1st PK minutes, other was spot filler on the 2nd PK unit. One has to prove he can play the minutes the other already has proved he can play well.

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01-16-2013, 11:56 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Not even close. Even guys like Perry and Getzlaf will get 7.5-8.5 mil/year on upcoming deals. Malkin will get 9+ by the time he gets his extension.
Those were signed before the new CBA was in place, under the new CBA the contracts are going to be worth much less.

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01-16-2013, 11:56 AM
  #505
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How exactly has he proven himself to be worth alot of money he's only played in the NHL two season. He hasn't shown that can be a consistent #1 d-man in the NHL.
Have you watched the Habs the last 2 years? Especially last year?

Also, RFA deals isn't only about what they've proven...it's about what they can prove going forward.

Do you have faith that PK Subban can be a player your team can build it's defense around for the next 4-5-6 years? I personally think so...

Maybe you don't and maybe MB doesn't either

therein lies the problem

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01-16-2013, 11:57 AM
  #506
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For me it's simple, I'm a habs fan so I want them to sign him to a deal that gives them enough money to make the rest of the players happy when we need to pay them too.
That's fine...i'm a fan and I want them to sign him to a deal, period. It's up to the GM to do his job to make sure he can sign the rest of his players and make them happy and make it all fit as well.

That's his job though...not mine.

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01-16-2013, 11:59 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh View Post
Have you read the whole article Meehan WAS comparing P.K to these young forwards. It's obvious that he wants the same kind of contract for P.K and how do you know Subban won't be a 30 point player with average defense for his career. Especially with the new CBA you just don't give up that kind of money to a player like that.
Article? I heard the radio interview.

Link to the article you are referencing please. And please don't let it be bleacher report or 25stanley.com

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01-16-2013, 12:00 PM
  #508
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So in other words...if you COULD, you WOULD.
No, what I'm saying is if I had the credentials to demand a senior's salary I would ask for it. If we'Re talking Doughty vs. Subban, one of the two has proven he deserved it, the other hasn't.

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Also, how is he taking his employer hostage? I don't get what you mean? How do you know it's not the Habs who are low balling him? If you're current employer offered you a new contract which you thought wasn't worthy of your contributions and your talents, would you just shut up and sign it?
No, I probably wouldn't. The difference is that I can walk away and the company I work for would have to deal with freelance designers for a couple of weeks, it wouldn't cripple them. Starting without PK is quite crippling, which is why he and Meehan are holding out.

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Maybe you would, because you have no other choice...but PK does have a choice. He can sit at home and use his absence as a negotiation tool. It's well within his right, just like it's within the Montreal Canadiens right to not budge at all and let him sweat it out.
Actually I do have choice, just like any other young professional. It's also within my right to up and leave without giving a 2 week notice since it isn't in my contract, that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do or the best move to make for my career.

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As for him practicing with his teamates while he negotiated a contract? How dumb would that be? His agent is trying to negotiate a contract on his behalf, and he's hired to get the best possible contract for his client. Having PK practicing with the Habs takes away a whole lot of leverage for him...that makes no sense
Did I say anywhere that he should practice without a contract? No, I said he should be practicing with his team... In other words he should have already signed the damned thing if he and the team are so high on each other.

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As for MDZ...I don't see why he should sign a comparable contract and if the Habs are indeed trying to sign him to the same type of contract...then not only do I understand Subban/Meehan's position, but I fully support it.
Wether it's MDZ or players on our own team like Price and Pacioretty, they all signed short length transition contracts before scoring expensive, long-term contracts. Subban was great for us and he stopped the gap left by Markov last year. If he can demonstrate that this can repeated on a short term contract, then fine Doughty money it is... But that's in 1 or 2 years, not now.

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01-16-2013, 12:01 PM
  #509
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Agreed on all of this...but no one really knows what PK Subban and his agent are asking for. It's all rumors

And as i've said quite a few times...rumors when it concerns PK Subban, tend to take on a life of their own.

As for choosing sides, I equate it to the lockout...I didn't understand it then, I don't understand it now. Player salaries are between team and player, it doesn't involve fans, so I don't see why I need to take it personally. The age of information and salary disclosures, has turned every average fan into a salary cap specialist...

Just be a fan man lol
No rumor; Meehan mentioned the names of Seguin, Eberle, Hall, Skinner and Kane on numerous occasions.

Ref.: http://www.985sports.ca/hockey/nouve...di-200986.html

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01-16-2013, 12:01 PM
  #510
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Meehan is an idiot if he is comparing pk to young star forwards around the league, for one thing pk doens't play forward, so how does that comparison even work? They don't have ths same points so you can't use that. If I were MB I would be pissed with his tatics, looks like a vetern agent trying to put one over on a rookie GM

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01-16-2013, 12:01 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Have you watched the Habs the last 2 years? Especially last year?

Also, RFA deals isn't only about what they've proven...it's about what they can prove going forward.

Do you have faith that PK Subban can be a player your team can build it's defense around for the next 4-5-6 years? I personally think so...

Maybe you don't and maybe MB doesn't either

therein lies the problem
lmao, you will never be happy if P.K doesn't stay stop being so simple minded contracts are about what the player has proven and he hasn't shown he's worth 5-6 million dollars for the next 7 years. And why wouldn't I take MDZ as comparison, MDZ is one of the best young offensive d-man in the business if they were handing out contracts based on what he will do and not on how he needs to prove that he can be consistent in the NHL MDZ would have gotten a big time contract..

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01-16-2013, 12:02 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh View Post
Have you read the whole article Meehan WAS comparing P.K to these young forwards. It's obvious that he wants the same kind of contract for P.K and how do you know Subban won't be a 30 point player with average defense for his career. Especially with the new CBA you just don't give up that kind of money to a player like that.
You don't know that...there's no possible way of knowing that.

Just like when the Pens need to negotiate a new deal for Sidney Crosby...will they know that Crosby won't have anymore concussion issues?

That's contracts in the NHL...unfortunately, this isn't the NFL where contracts aren't guaranteed. There's risk/reward in any deal you make, and that goes for ANY player.

If MB is not convinced PK Subban can be a #1 defensman going forward (I don't personally agree with that), then that's fine...continue to play hardball with Subban/Meehan and let the chips fall where they may

Time will prove who is right...

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01-16-2013, 12:02 PM
  #513
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That's fine...i'm a fan and I want them to sign him to a deal, period. It's up to the GM to do his job to make sure he can sign the rest of his players and make them happy and make it all fit as well.

That's his job though...not mine.
Right it's MB's job, and imo that is why Subban is still unsigned pretty much.

Meehan doesn't care about making the habs competitive. He cares about getting PK as much money as he can.

I care about the habs so i'm on MB's side.

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01-16-2013, 12:02 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
No rumor; Meehan mentioned the names of Seguin, Eberle, Hall, Skinner and Kane on numerous occasions.

Ref.: http://www.985sports.ca/hockey/nouve...di-200986.html
"The dynamics that we've seen in our CBA in the last few years, organizations have recognized the importance of contracting with players on a post-entry-level basis so they secure their rights for a longer term, so that they're not prejudice in any way by any free agency rights or interference," Meehan said.

"The Boston Bruins have done that for Tyler Seguin. The Edmonton Oilers have done that for (Jordan) Eberle and (Taylor) Hall. Carolina has done it for (Jeff) Skinner. The Jets have done it for (Evander) Kane. So there's precedent for that in our industry today."


He is talking about signing important players right out of their ELC. I don't see anywhere that he is asking for "Taylor Hall type money".

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01-16-2013, 12:02 PM
  #515
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Three days to go. Subban will be rusty when he plays in his first NHL game this season, wherever that might be. In the meantime let's pretend he's injured. If he sits out many games in this abbreviated season the Habs would be spotting the bottom bracket of the East teams a lead in the race for the remaining playoff spots after the stronger teams clinch theirs. Since the 2013 entry draft is supposed to be El Dorado, that would abet the cynical designs of the tankards, wouldn't it?

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01-16-2013, 12:03 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Have you watched the Habs the last 2 years? Especially last year?

Also, RFA deals isn't only about what they've proven...it's about what they can prove going forward.

Do you have faith that PK Subban can be a player your team can build it's defense around for the next 4-5-6 years? I personally think so...

Maybe you don't and maybe MB doesn't either

therein lies the problem
You can't sign a player on what he's going to do in the future that's complete garbage of course he needs to prove himself further.

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01-16-2013, 12:05 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Three days to go. Subban will be rusty when he plays in his first NHL game this season, wherever that might be. In the meantime let's pretend he's injured. If he sits out many games in this abbreviated season the Habs would be spotting the bottom bracket of the East teams a lead in the race for the remaining playoff spots after the stronger teams clinch theirs. Since the 2013 entry draft is supposed to be El Dorado, that would please the tankards, wouldn't it?
Can't wait to see what happens if/when he comes back and makes a defensive (or any kind, really) gaffe in his first game. Fans will get on him for not having been at training camp.

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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
"The dynamics that we've seen in our CBA in the last few years, organizations have recognized the importance of contracting with players on a post-entry-level basis so they secure their rights for a longer term, so that they're not prejudice in any way by any free agency rights or interference," Meehan said.

"The Boston Bruins have done that for Tyler Seguin. The Edmonton Oilers have done that for (Jordan) Eberle and (Taylor) Hall. Carolina has done it for (Jeff) Skinner. The Jets have done it for (Evander) Kane. So there's precedent for that in our industry today."


He is talking about signing important players right out of their ELC. I don't see anywhere that he is asking for "Taylor Hall type money".
If the Subban camp is only after term, I'd have to side with them. Bergevin may be shooting himself in the foot with the guns he's sticking to, here.

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01-16-2013, 12:05 PM
  #518
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lmao, you will never be happy if P.K doesn't stay stop being so simple minded contracts are about what the player has proven and he hasn't shown he's worth 5-6 million dollars for the next 7 years. And why wouldn't I take MDZ as comparison, MDZ is one of the best young offensive d-man in the business if they were handing out contracts based on what he will do and not on how he needs to prove that he can be consistent in the NHL MDZ would have gotten a big time contract..
Is that right?

What did Carey Price prove to earn the deal he signed?

What did Max Pacioretty prove to earn the deal he signed? (he has 1 30 goal season on a last place team)

What has Taylor Hall proven to earn the deal he signed?

I could go through EVERY single NHL team and do the same excercise

again, if the league just paid RFA's based on some totally subjective list of accomplishments...then the league would be filled with unsigned RFA's

Get real man

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01-16-2013, 12:06 PM
  #519
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You don't know that...there's no possible way of knowing that.

Just like when the Pens need to negotiate a new deal for Sidney Crosby...will they know that Crosby won't have anymore concussion issues?

That's contracts in the NHL...unfortunately, this isn't the NFL where contracts aren't guaranteed. There's risk/reward in any deal you make, and that goes for ANY player.

If MB is not convinced PK Subban can be a #1 defensman going forward (I don't personally agree with that), then that's fine...continue to play hardball with Subban/Meehan and let the chips fall where they may

Time will prove who is right...
Don't confuse the argument...they don't dislike PK and think he won't be a #1 D, I simply think they want PK to be an RFA when they do this again next time so the habs can hold the hammer again, that's pretty much it...once the player becomes a UFA the hammer is in their hands...

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01-16-2013, 12:06 PM
  #520
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You can't sign a player on what he's going to do in the future that's complete garbage of course he needs to prove himself further.
Ridiculous...you're making no sense right now.

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01-16-2013, 12:07 PM
  #521
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If the Subban camp is only after term, I'd have to side with them. Bergevin may be shooting himself in the foot with the guns he's sticking to, here.
Agreed 100%.

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01-16-2013, 12:07 PM
  #522
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Anyway I'm off let's hope he does sign for a fair amount of money.

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01-16-2013, 12:07 PM
  #523
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Ridiculous...you're making no sense right now.
Obviously no GM's ever sign a player on potential. It's never been done.

Ever.

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01-16-2013, 12:08 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh View Post
Anyway I'm off let's hope he does sign for a fair amount of money.
Before you go, can I get a link to the article you were referencing where Meehan said PK was looking for a specific amount of money.

Thanks in advance.

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01-16-2013, 12:09 PM
  #525
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Ridiculous...you're making no sense right now.
You're misunderstanding everything I say, if it isn't your way of thinking it's bullsh*t

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