HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Chicago Blackhawks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2008 draft class has yielded little for Chicago Blackhawks

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-14-2013, 09:38 PM
  #26
Sevanston
Moderator
 
Sevanston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 11,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
Holl has been a healthy scratch and used at forward. Quite the find.

Tallon takes the ultimate heat but its the Hawks draft brain trust are behind the failed picks. Wonder how many are still around now.
I've been wondering that myself.

Kelley is of course still at the helm, but the 2011 and 2012 drafts both look pretty good so far; better than some previous drafts looked even this early at only six months out. Only time will tell if those turn into anything at the NHL level, but they're certainly good signs. I'll be really curious if the 2013 draft goes off just as well.

I'm thinking out loud more than I'm suggesting anything, but I'm starting to wonder if the scouting department went through some changes after 2010.

Sevanston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2013, 09:41 PM
  #27
ChiGuySez
Showtime
 
ChiGuySez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 6,218
vCash: 500
Dumas is still around. Quite the draft record during his time.

ChiGuySez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2013, 10:17 PM
  #28
craigcaulks*
Registered Luser.
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Van!
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,000
vCash: 500
Still better than the Canucks 2007 draft class.

craigcaulks* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2013, 10:32 PM
  #29
Atomic Punk
Mean Streets
 
Atomic Punk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Panama
Country: United States
Posts: 9,211
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Still better than the Canucks 2007 draft class.
We really need some games so we can quit reliving the past over and over

Atomic Punk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2013, 10:37 PM
  #30
ovenbaked
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 370
vCash: 500
i was wondering if they wrote negative articles

ovenbaked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2013, 06:16 AM
  #31
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini View Post
To Beach's defense, he lost a year of development. Personally, I dont think he will amount to anything, but I wont throw in the towel just yet after the lightweights have left to Hawks TC and he gets some minutes in the Rock.

He will be an NHL'er, same as Lalonde, just not with the Hawks.
Lalond will not be a NHLer. I think I will see him soon in europe



This year is Beachs last chance to not being labeled as bust.

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2013, 08:12 AM
  #32
HockeySensible
Smug Teuvo
 
HockeySensible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Yeah, Holl is a long shot. I tried telling people this summer how unimpressive he was when I watched him play a bunch of times at Minnesota last year. He can't even make the top 6 defenseman of a college team. Granted, they are extremely stacked but what a terrible 2nd round pick...just like Rensfeldt. Simpson has also been brutal.

That 2010 draft is all up to Johns and Hayes IMO. Nordstrom is looking positive as well, but when you have 5 top 60 picks and you draft 3 busts like Simpson, Rensfeldt, and Holl....well, that is brutal. I do like Hayes but he is far away and needs to learn to be more of a two way player and more a team player(aka backchecking harder). He does have a lot of offensive skill though. I love Johns as well but he has been reluctant to sign with Chicago it seems. He is AHL ready now and I love watching him play. He is PERFECT for what we need right now. He is a good skater, can move the puck, is good defensively, good size and physical. He can do everything...so hopefully he continues to improve.
I never liked the Holl pick, but I'm not ready to give up on him yet. He's got a good frame and is a good skater. He's toolsy. It doesn't look good right now, but I'd like to see him in the AHL before giving up on him.

I also don't get the Simpson "bust" status. He's in his first year as a Pro. Is he lighting the world on fire in the ECHL? No.. but it's his first year as a Pro. He posted as good or better numbers than Carruth throughout their Junior careers, despite being on an awful team for the majority of his Junior career while Carruth's been on a powerhouse Portland team.

I really liked the Rensfeldt pick at the time.. but he simply didn't develope as well as he needed too. Big guy, but slight, not really physical, an average skater and didn't produce anywhere near as much as I tought he would in the OHL. However, at the time, he looked very promising. He was outstanding in the sweden's junior league and was coming off a great U-18's.

Luckily, I think both Johns and Kayes will be NHLers. Nordstrom has a chance too, as a bottom-6 forward and Mattson's been good in college thus far, but he's more of an outside chance IMO.

HockeySensible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2013, 10:09 AM
  #33
Hawkaholic
Registered User
 
Hawkaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,169
vCash: 500
A Dale Tallon draft class that didn't yield much NHL talent? Anyone surprised?

Hawkaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2013, 05:51 PM
  #34
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,618
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Yeah, Holl is a long shot. I tried telling people this summer how unimpressive he was when I watched him play a bunch of times at Minnesota last year. He can't even make the top 6 defenseman of a college team. Granted, they are extremely stacked but what a terrible 2nd round pick...just like Rensfeldt. Simpson has also been brutal.

That 2010 draft is all up to Johns and Hayes IMO. Nordstrom is looking positive as well, but when you have 5 top 60 picks and you draft 3 busts like Simpson, Rensfeldt, and Holl....well, that is brutal. I do like Hayes but he is far away and needs to learn to be more of a two way player and more a team player(aka backchecking harder). He does have a lot of offensive skill though. I love Johns as well but he has been reluctant to sign with Chicago it seems. He is AHL ready now and I love watching him play. He is PERFECT for what we need right now. He is a good skater, can move the puck, is good defensively, good size and physical. He can do everything...so hopefully he continues to improve.
Ya 2010 not shaping up too well. So many early picks and a lot of them have been squandered. I think we made a couple good 2nd round grabs in 2011 in Saad and Clendening though to make up for it.

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2013, 05:57 PM
  #35
Hawkaholic
Registered User
 
Hawkaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,169
vCash: 500
Drafting after the top 15 or so is a crap shoot, it's the high 1st round picks that a GM should be judged by, excluding gimme picks.

Hawkaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2013, 11:21 PM
  #36
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,618
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Drafting after the top 15 or so is a crap shoot, it's the high 1st round picks that a GM should be judged by, excluding gimme picks.
Disagree. The fact that it's a crapshoot is what distinguishes good drafters from bad drafters. You think it's a coincidence Detroit is always popping out good players from the late rounds despite low draft positions? About a 1/4 of 2nd round picks turn out well. The guy is to find that good quarter.

Bowman hoarded draft picks for the players we traded away from the Cup team in 2010 and 2011. The result combined with our own picks was Kevin Hayes and Justin Holl (for Buff, Eager, and Sopel. Also brought in Morin). Ludvig Rensfeldt and Kent Simpson (for own 1st), Stephen Johns (own 2nd), Mark McNeill (own 1st), Phillip Danault (for Brouwer), Adam Clendening (for Ladd) and Brandon Saad (for Toronto's own 2nd in 2010 that the Hawks had acquired so that they could threaten the Bruins with an offer sheet for Kessel).

Johns and Hayes have both been longterm development guys in the NCAA. Holl, Rensfeldt, and Simpson are not going to be in the NHL. McNeill and Danault have promise. Clendening certainly has the offensive tools but needs to work on his Defense. Saad is a great prospect right now. So it's a mixed bag so far I'd say.

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2013, 11:38 PM
  #37
DoctorDoak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 985
vCash: 500
Any shot of Birch getting signed next year, at least?

DoctorDoak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 06:08 AM
  #38
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Drafting after the top 15 or so is a crap shoot, it's the high 1st round picks that a GM should be judged by, excluding gimme picks.
good, we can judge Tallon for Beach and Skille. I'm a Beach believer, but even I admit he is a bust and wasted pick.

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 08:20 AM
  #39
unbridledid
Registered User
 
unbridledid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 443
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
good, we can judge Tallon for Beach and Skille. I'm a Beach believer, but even I admit he is a bust and wasted pick.
If Beach can be a 3rd line grinder type he will at least give the team something on the bottom two lines it is missing. His size and his ability to agitate the other team has a place on this Hawks team.

At the time we have to admit the Beach pick looked good. I was high on Myers, simply based on his size and our lack of quality d-men in the minors..

Looks like Fiddy may have been right about keeping our 30th pick in 2010 and getting Brock Nelson. Nelson is having a nice season in the AHL and I have read that he is a solid two way player. His being a center with his size and his two way game would be a nice chip to have..

unbridledid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 08:38 AM
  #40
Hawkscap
Registered User
 
Hawkscap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,701
vCash: 500
Quote:
You think it's a coincidence Detroit is always popping out good players from the late rounds despite low draft positions? About a 1/4 of 2nd round picks turn out well. The guy is to find that good quarter.
This myth needs to die.

Just look at their draft history in the last 10 years.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005492.html

Hawkscap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 10:24 AM
  #41
Illinihockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topher42 View Post
This myth needs to die.

Just look at their draft history in the last 10 years.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005492.html
Thank you, I was about to post this.

Illinihockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 10:29 AM
  #42
Hawkscap
Registered User
 
Hawkscap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,701
vCash: 500
The 2007-2010 Red Wing Draftees have played a total of 48 NHL games.

Hawkscap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 11:43 AM
  #43
Blue Liner
Registered User
 
Blue Liner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 4,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topher42 View Post
The 2007-2010 Red Wing Draftees have played a total of 48 NHL games.
Very true but no one can deny the success they had drafting in the lower rounds in their history previous. Lidstrom 3rd Round, Fedorov 4th round, Datsyuk 6th round, Zetterberg 7th round, Johan Franzen 3rd round and could name a few other key role players who were taken in the 2nd round or later. Even finding ONE Hall of Famer in a later round is impressive. They managed to find a few.

But as you said, that magic has seemed to have fizzled out the past five or six years and I won't lose a minute of sleep over it.

EDIT: Forgot Holmstrom in the TENTH round.

Blue Liner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 11:56 AM
  #44
Illinihockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Liner View Post
Very true but no one can deny the success they had drafting in the lower rounds in their history previous. Lidstrom 3rd Round, Fedorov 4th round, Datsyuk 6th round, Zetterberg 7th round, Johan Franzen 3rd round and could name a few other key role players who were taken in the 2nd round or later. Even finding ONE Hall of Famer in a later round is impressive. They managed to find a few.

But as you said, that magic has seemed to have fizzled out the past five or six years and I won't lose a minute of sleep over it.

EDIT: Forgot Holmstrom in the TENTH round.
They were way ahead of the curve in scouting Europe and Russia for players. It was their version of money ball.

Illinihockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 12:04 PM
  #45
Blue Liner
Registered User
 
Blue Liner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 4,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
They were way ahead of the curve in scouting Europe and Russia for players. It was their version of money ball.
Very true, plus they were big on the Russian pipeline.

Blue Liner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 12:29 PM
  #46
hockeydoug
Registered User
 
hockeydoug's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,598
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topher42 View Post
This myth needs to die.

Just look at their draft history in the last 10 years.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005492.html
Thank you for that. Holland's draft record since the last CBA has been nothing special. His last meaningful acquisition was landing Hossa for a year.

hockeydoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 01:15 PM
  #47
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,618
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topher42 View Post
The 2007-2010 Red Wing Draftees have played a total of 48 NHL games.
That means nothing. The Red Wings are notoriously slow in their development. They don't rush players. On that list I see players like Brendan Smith, Gustav Nyquist, Tomas Tatar, Calle Jarnkrok, Petr Mrazek... Just because these guys weren't placed in the NHL at 20 doesn't mean they don't have high-end potential and should make up a group of solid NHL players.

The Wings have made the playoffs 20 straight years with almost entirely teams made up of their draft picks. Their prospect pool is top notch despite this. Give credit to your opponent when it's due.

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 01:19 PM
  #48
digdug41982
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 26,473
vCash: 50
I still like Tatar and Smith quite a bit. They've barely played. They will now though.

digdug41982 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 01:33 PM
  #49
Blue Liner
Registered User
 
Blue Liner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 4,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
That means nothing. The Red Wings are notoriously slow in their development. They don't rush players. On that list I see players like Brendan Smith, Gustav Nyquist, Tomas Tatar, Calle Jarnkrok, Petr Mrazek... Just because these guys weren't placed in the NHL at 20 doesn't mean they don't have high-end potential and should make up a group of solid NHL players.

The Wings have made the playoffs 20 straight years with almost entirely teams made up of their draft picks. Their prospect pool is top notch despite this. Give credit to your opponent when it's due.
Also a very good point.

I like Smith and Tatar, personally.

Blue Liner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 01:43 PM
  #50
unbridledid
Registered User
 
unbridledid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 443
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
That means nothing. The Red Wings are notoriously slow in their development. They don't rush players. On that list I see players like Brendan Smith, Gustav Nyquist, Tomas Tatar, Calle Jarnkrok, Petr Mrazek... Just because these guys weren't placed in the NHL at 20 doesn't mean they don't have high-end potential and should make up a group of solid NHL players.

The Wings have made the playoffs 20 straight years with almost entirely teams made up of their draft picks. Their prospect pool is top notch despite this. Give credit to your opponent when it's due.
Potential and should are the key words here. Outside of Nyquist and Mrazek, who has seven games in the AHL under his belt, and is a smaller goalie, all the players you listed were 1st or 2nd round picks.

Smith is a going to be a good player and he was a 1st rounder.

unbridledid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:12 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.