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P.K Subban Thread 2.0

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Old
01-16-2013, 12:38 PM
  #551
charlie
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To me,,,,, I would of rather had no hockey this year to having hockey without Subban.


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01-16-2013, 12:38 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
So now back to reality, we know little of the situation so it's neither MB's or PK's fault, hehe. But I will still say that if MB hasn't signed him yet that's good enough for me at this point. Once he is signed and some facts come out then we'll have more to talk about, you're right
No doubt about that...once he's eventually signed, then all the salary cap soldiers will be out in full effect explaining how this deal will cripple the Habs for the next decade.

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01-16-2013, 12:38 PM
  #553
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Don't listen to Meehan, Subban will be signed by the weekend.

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01-16-2013, 12:40 PM
  #554
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that's an opinion...not a fact.

10 different people might have 10 different opinions about those 5 players...doesnt make anyone right or wrong

just shows how easily negotiations like this can get off the rails. I mean we're having trouble determining PK's value in virtual world with no consequence...imagine how difficult this must be for the parties involved
That's true. All I really wish his that he gets signed asap.

I'd prefer a bridge contract (2 or 3 years max) but if a contract is sign longtime at a decent price, I'll also be happy.

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01-16-2013, 12:40 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Those deals...

Skinner 6 years 34.35 5.72 mil cap hit
Hall 7 years 42 mil 6 mil cap hit
Eberle 6 years 36 mil 6 mil cap hit
Kane 6 years 31.5 mil 5.25 mil
Seguin 6 years 34.5 mil 5.75

Maybe Bergevin can give in with 5 years and 5.5-5.7 AAV.
They're all fairly rich contracts for highly touted forwards, however I believe the point that Meehan was making was that it's not abnormal for high quality players to sign long term (and consequently for a higher salary) coming out of their ELC, whereas 10 years ago it was almost unheard of.

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01-16-2013, 12:41 PM
  #556
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Sigh, still not signed?

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01-16-2013, 12:41 PM
  #557
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Because Edmonton decided to pay him that much.

Question for you, do you think Edmonton and Montreal are the same type of market?
You'd have to be more specific...what do you mean by 'same type of market'?

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01-16-2013, 12:43 PM
  #558
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No doubt about that...once he's eventually signed, then all the salary cap soldiers will be out in full effect explaining how this deal will cripple the Habs for the next decade.
I do worry that he will sign a contract that will make him stick out the moment there is a slump in his play, yes. Montreal is not a very patient place. And once the money comes, the results are expected.

I just think it's smart for them not to commit that much if they don't have to - WHICH THEY DON'T. His payday should come after this contract and it will likely come with less problems imo.

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01-16-2013, 12:44 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You'd have to be more specific...what do you mean by 'same type of market'?
Do you think that the Montreal fans would give PK a break if he signed a long term contract and then didn't produce to their expectations?

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01-16-2013, 12:46 PM
  #560
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Not looking good but it is so hard to tell from the lack of reliable information coming out. Bergevin must be getting some offers for him at this point.

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01-16-2013, 12:46 PM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
I do worry that he will sign a contract that will make him stick out the moment there is a slump in his play, yes. Montreal is not a very patient place. And once the money comes, the results are expected.

I just think it's smart for them not to commit that much if they don't have to - WHICH THEY DON'T. His payday should come after this contract and it will likely come with less problems imo.
Agreed...they don't have to. But it's a game of 'chicken'...we'll see who wins/looses.

based on what we've seen around the league, an argument can be made that alot of young players are getting their big pay day post entry-level deal, so I can understand why PK and Meehan are holding out.

Think back to the midway point of PK's rookie year...anytime the Habs have had a PP, PK, late game, shutdown situation, etc...PK has been a constant on the ice

So why the hell should he accept a deal he doesn't think is worthy of his contributions?

Other contracts on the habs, other contracts around the league and his utilization show that he should be getting PAID...so why fans expect him to take less, is somewhat baffling to me.

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01-16-2013, 12:47 PM
  #562
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I don't get why Prust signing gets thrown here. He was a UFA and was signed at market value. You can't impose your team's philosophy regarding contracts when it comes to the UFA market (free market).

As a team, you should be able to impose your philosophy when it comes to RFAs.

It doesn't mean signing them under their value, it just mean that should be able the fit the player in their salary structure as they wish.

In the end, I'm sure that on a given 6yrs plan, both parties come up with the overall same numbers. It's just that the Habs would like to split the contract 2yrs then 4yrs (for a question of status within the team and with the fans, and to keep some flexibility with their signings next year and in two years) while PK's clan would prefer a 6yrs deal (for status in the league, and for security in case of injury)...

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01-16-2013, 12:48 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
Do you think that the Montreal fans would give PK a break if he signed a long term contract and then didn't produce to their expectations?
Of course not, but they wouldn't either in any other big market or any canadian market for that matter.

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01-16-2013, 12:48 PM
  #564
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That's because MB and Therrien don't think PK is arguably their most important player. Notice the rhetoric they use every single time they talk about him. They invariably say, every single time, that PK is a player who is still in development stages of his career. They say this every time they are asked a question about him. So as much as you read on here that he's a #1 defenseman etc, the people who run the show don't think that.

And those who are basically throwing Prust under the bus before he's even played a minute in the Habs uniform have to understand that there was a desperate need for a player like him on this team and that had they not slightly overpaid they would have Diaz and Weber playing forward again. That is why they paid that much for him and that is why it has zilch to do with PK's contract.

I disagree with this entire post. Saying someone is still in a developmental stage at 23yrs old is accurate, but it says nothing about the value they place on PK. Actions speak louder than words. He lead the team in ice-time because he has game changing qualities and can perform adequately to above average in every situation. He's not without holes, but he's very integral to this team. MB and Therrien know this and it will be evident again by his ice-time.

I'm not throwing Prust under the bus, he filled a need, but there's not a chance in hell that he fills a bigger hole than PK Subban.

As a GM you need to pick your battles. Giving a 4 year 10 million dollar contract to an aging 4th liner and refusing to give the same term to your 2nd or 3rd best player is laughable and goes entirely against the so-called restrictive cap structure that people claim MB is enacting.

This has nothing to do with how the team, MB or Therrien value PK. This is entirely about trying to use their leverage to get to the UFA period with a lesser cap hit. They'd have to be blind to not value PK as one of their best players, because he is, without a doubt.

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01-16-2013, 12:50 PM
  #565
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Of course not, but they wouldn't either in any other big market or any canadian market for that matter.
Right, and if I was MB this is why I would hesitate to sign a big money long term deal. Like I said, his money will come next time easier imo...

It's simply MB being sure of the contract. These are the types of contracts that kill you if you are wrong about a guy.

I'm no handyman, but I remember hearing somebody say measure twice, cut once. MB is simply just choosing to measure again one more time before he throws cash for term PK's way.

And like I said, in a market like Montreal with the expectations from a large money contract, I don't blame him one bit.

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01-16-2013, 12:50 PM
  #566
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I don't want Subban on our team if he want special treatment... I've been following hockey for long enough to know that overpaying for hold-out player is not a viable option. Let him rot at home !

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01-16-2013, 12:51 PM
  #567
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Sorry if this has already been covered:

Does anybody know the tagging rule implications for Subban's contract?

Assuming Galchenyuk makes the team, the Habs only have about 3M of cap space left for next year. My understanding is that they cannot exceed that, even this year.

Was this adjusted due to the cap decrease in the new CBA? Will Gomez's cap hit for next season disappear immediately with the accelerated compliance buyout?

I'm not sure MB could sign Subban to a $5-6M contract today even if he wanted to...

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01-16-2013, 12:52 PM
  #568
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Originally Posted by ppil View Post
I don't get why Prust signing gets thrown here. He was a UFA and was signed at market value. You can't impose your team's philosophy regarding contracts when it comes to the UFA market (free market).

As a team, you should be able to impose your philosophy when it comes to RFAs.

It doesn't mean signing them under their value, it just mean that should be able the fit the player in their salary structure as they wish.

In the end, I'm sure that on a given 6yrs plan, both parties come up with the overall same numbers. It's just that the Habs would like to split the contract 2yrs then 4yrs (for a question of status within the team and with the fans, and to keep some flexibility with their signings next year and in two years) while PK's clan would prefer a 6yrs deal (for status in the league, and for security in case of injury)...
Makes sense to me. In the end a 1 year deal is probably the middle ground they will find.

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Old
01-16-2013, 12:54 PM
  #569
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IMO the habs should follow a business model like the Red Wings and not the Rangers! If Subban is willing to sacrifice this year of hockey good for him but IMO Bergevin has a good chance to show his authority and not bulge over popularity contest but more around team concept

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01-16-2013, 12:54 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
Right, and if I was MB this is why I would hesitate to sign a big money long term deal. Like I said, his money will come next time easier imo...It's simply MB being sure of the contract. These are the types of contracts that kill you if you are wrong about a guy.

I'm no handyman, but I remember hearing somebody say measure twice, cut once. MB is simply just choosing to measure again one more time before he throws cash for term PK's way.

And like I said, in a market like Montreal with the expectations from a large money contract, I don't blame him one bit.
That's fair...but when other teams aren't using the same logic...PK is well within his right to asked for big money now.

Also, there's a huge misconception that I want to dispell right now...and that's the one that PK Subban hasn't proven anything

Nothing could be further from the truth

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01-16-2013, 12:54 PM
  #571
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Not looking good but it is so hard to tell from the lack of reliable information coming out. Bergevin must be getting some offers for him at this point.
MB already said less than 4 days ago that he will NOT trade PK during an interview with RDS. So what difference does it make what offers he gets ?

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01-16-2013, 12:55 PM
  #572
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I don't want Subban on our team if he want special treatment... I've been following hockey for long enough to know that overpaying for hold-out player is not a viable option. Let him rot at home !
See Doughty, the LA Kings and Stanley Cup. These types of reactions are totally based on emotions rather than logic.

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01-16-2013, 12:55 PM
  #573
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I don't want Subban on our team if he want special treatment... I've been following hockey for long enough to know that overpaying for hold-out player is not a viable option. Let him rot at home !
Why in the world would you claim he's looking for special treatment? He and his agent are merely negotiating a contract.

As long as this doesn't start to resemble the CBA debacle, I have no problems with this perfectly normal part of the hockey business.

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01-16-2013, 12:56 PM
  #574
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I don't want Subban on our team if he want special treatment... I've been following hockey for long enough to know that overpaying for hold-out player is not a viable option. Let him rot at home !
There's nothing to indicate he wants special treatment...

He's been the teams most used defensman in all situations for the last 1.5 years (going back to mid way through his rookie season). Why should he accept a deal that would make him the 4th or 5th highest paid dman on the team?

Just think about that for one second...put yourself in his shoes.

The team uses him like a #1 dman...yet they don't want to reward him like one when it's time too?

I'm not entirely sure I wouldn't be holding out either...then again, priciples are important to me.

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01-16-2013, 12:58 PM
  #575
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Gorges 3.9 Price 6.5 Markov 5.5 if i'm Subban and i see these contracts of course i want at least 5 mil if Price that hasn't won more than one playoff series get 6.5 mil than how much does Subban who shut down Crosby at his first playoff appearance get?

He should get at least 5 mil gtfo with the 3 mil in no kind of world will he accept that and he is right.
How come he would be less paid than Markov and Gorges when he is better then them right now and has still potential left.

Bergevin is starting to bother me, pay the kid for god's sake he is a major piece in the tabs right now and in the future he has got franchise dman labelled on him.

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