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Old
01-16-2013, 01:09 PM
  #26
DousedInOil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
What's this NOT EVEN CLOSE stuff that Leafs fans are going on about?
I would do this trade as an Oiler fan and i can see why the Leafs wouldn't do it but i fail to see how the value is so lopsided.

Gunnarson is only playing on the top pairing with Phaneuf because the Leafs don't have any better options. He is ideally a solid, stay at home 2nd pairing guy which is what Nick Schultz is. Gunnarson is better but not by much and even that's questionable.

As far as value is concerned, i see Kulemin perhaps having slightly more value due to his durability and better 2 way game but Hemsky is superior offensively when he's at the top of his game, last year was an aberration for him.

Again, i would do this deal for the Oilers and i highly doubt that the Leafs do the deal but it's not a slam dunk in favor of the Oilers by any means.
This must be your first time in a Toronto trade proposal.

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Old
01-16-2013, 01:17 PM
  #27
TOGuy14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
To Oilers
Carl Gunnarsson
Nikolai Kulemin





To Leafs
Nick Schultz
2013 2nd round pick
Ales Hemsky
There is more nope than you could ever image on this trade proposal.

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Old
01-16-2013, 01:24 PM
  #28
TOGuy14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Easy no for Edmonton, because it doesn't bring anything they need.

Nikolai Kulemin is a question, because he took a giant step backward last season and you don't know if his one 30G season was a fluke. Yes I know he's did well in the KHL, but he's always done well there, and the KHL is not the NHL. TO fans have flamed MPS for his one bad year, the same questions they asked about MPS can be asked about Kulemin.

IMO Carl Gunnarsson is a solid 2nd pairing D, but he's not a top pair D. N.Schultz is as good as Gunnarsson and Schultz is way better at the PK, he's also a great leader. The Oilers need Schultz to school J.Schultz and for his his superior D play.
You're so funny.

Kulemin has scored 15, 16, 30, and 7 goals in his NHL career, and shot only 6.5% last year (exactly half of what he averaged in his previous three full seasons). I fail to see the logic that last year has somehow completely damaged his value or is in any way representative of what he has done for the other 75% of his career so far.

Gunnarson would step in and be the best defensive d-man on the Oilers immediately (just like he is on the Leafs). Despite your statement that he is onyl a second pairing guy, he would almost certainly be playing top pairing minutes with Schultz unless they decided to go with Smid, but Gunnar would probably be a better fit.

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Old
01-16-2013, 01:24 PM
  #29
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I dont see why Edmonton would do this. Schultz is better than Gunnarsson and Hemsky is better than Kulemin. They are just older and Hemsky gets injured alot. With how young the Oilers are already I dont see why they would bother with this.

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Old
01-16-2013, 01:29 PM
  #30
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The Oilers are downgrading in both areas and giving up a 2nd round pick? No way.

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Old
01-16-2013, 01:34 PM
  #31
gooilgo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
There is more nope than you could ever image on this trade proposal.
There is a fair bit of nope in this post too

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
You're so funny.

Kulemin has scored 15, 16, 30, and 7 goals in his NHL career, and shot only 6.5% last year (exactly half of what he averaged in his previous three full seasons). I fail to see the logic that last year has somehow completely damaged his value or is in any way representative of what he has done for the other 75% of his career so far.

Gunnarson would step in and be the best defensive d-man on the Oilers immediately (just like he is on the Leafs). Despite your statement that he is onyl a second pairing guy, he would almost certainly be playing top pairing minutes with Schultz unless they decided to go with Smid, but Gunnar would probably be a better fit.
......err how about no. Schultz won't play top pairing minutes either.

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Old
01-16-2013, 01:43 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Let's not get crazy.
Not at all crazy. Hemsky isn't need here, no need to add more top six players when we actually need to unload a couple. Schultz is a significant downgrade on Gunnarsson, and a 2nd is just a 2nd. Value-wise its an operpayment for the oilers, but it just doesn't make any sense for the leafs.

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Old
01-16-2013, 01:47 PM
  #33
CupofOil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
You're so funny.

Kulemin has scored 15, 16, 30, and 7 goals in his NHL career, and shot only 6.5% last year (exactly half of what he averaged in his previous three full seasons). I fail to see the logic that last year has somehow completely damaged his value or is in any way representative of what he has done for the other 75% of his career so far.

Gunnarson would step in and be the best defensive d-man on the Oilers immediately (just like he is on the Leafs). Despite your statement that he is onyl a second pairing guy, he would almost certainly be playing top pairing minutes with Schultz unless they decided to go with Smid, but Gunnar would probably be a better fit.
Oh Leafs fans (some of you), don't ever change.
Gunnarson is NOT better than Smid. Smid is bigger, more physical and just as good defensively. Smid is ideally a 2nd pairing guy on a good team as well but he's a better 2nd pairing guy than Gunnarson, i have little doubts about this.
Smid-Petry will be the top pairing this season so Gunnarson would probably play on the 2nd pairing paired with Justin Schultz.

You talk about Kulemin's damaged value due to his down year yet Hemsky's value has been damaged somehow for the same exact reason? And Hemsky is actually much more proven than Kulemin. I don't see the logic here.

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Old
01-16-2013, 01:52 PM
  #34
Mystifo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
To Oilers
Carl Gunnarsson
Nikolai Kulemin





To Leafs
Nick Schultz
2013 2nd round pick
Ales Hemsky
Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy?

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Old
01-16-2013, 01:56 PM
  #35
gooilgo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy?
It's a message board, work it out.

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Old
01-16-2013, 01:59 PM
  #36
5RingsAndABeer
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As an Oiler fan I probably wouldn't do this. Nick Schultz is exactly what we need on our 2nd/3rd pairing. He also was made an alternate/assistant captain, which probably says something about his dressing/lockerroom impact.

I'm also a believer in letting it ride on Hemsky and seeing if he can return to his prior form.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Ales Hemsky doesn't have much value atm. He needs to prove he can stay healthy, until then he's just baggage you're trying to dump on teams. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player when healthy but until then...
If Ales Hemsky is healthy then you can expect to give up a lot for him. Right now is the time if you wanna buy low. It could be a great bargain or a complete waste.

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:00 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
I'm not so sure. I'm not married to either Gunnar or Kulemin, and if Hemsky can stay healthy for 3/4 of a season he's an upgrade offensively over Kulemin. Defensively, Schultz is tougher than Gunnar but not as offensively inclined.

If Edmonton flops that pick could be in the top-45 in a deep draft, which could help us.

I'm on the fence, but objectively I don't think it's a bad offer.
How is someone who has never scored 30 goals an upgrade from someone who has?

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:02 PM
  #38
Gavy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Oh Leafs fans (some of you), don't ever change.
Gunnarson is NOT better than Smid. Smid is bigger, more physical and just as good defensively. Smid is ideally a 2nd pairing guy on a good team as well but he's a better 2nd pairing guy than Gunnarson, i have little doubts about this.
Smid-Petry will be the top pairing this season so Gunnarson would probably play on the 2nd pairing paired with Justin Schultz.

You talk about Kulemin's damaged value due to his down year yet Hemsky's value has been damaged somehow for the same exact reason? And Hemsky is actually much more proven than Kulemin. I don't see the logic here.
Typical " my guy is better than your guy because he plays for my team" post

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:22 PM
  #39
5RingsAndABeer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavy View Post
How is someone who has never scored 30 goals an upgrade from someone who has?
What...? Are you serious?

1) There is much more to offense than scoring goals.
2) There is much more to hockey than scoring goals.
3) This is a terrible way to evaluate who's a good goal-scorer.

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:24 PM
  #40
CupofOil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavy View Post
Typical " my guy is better than your guy because he plays for my team" post
Did you see the post i quoted or are you wearing Leaf blinders? I'm guessing the latter.

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:27 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
You're so funny.

Kulemin has scored 15, 16, 30, and 7 goals in his NHL career, and shot only 6.5% last year (exactly half of what he averaged in his previous three full seasons). I fail to see the logic that last year has somehow completely damaged his value or is in any way representative of what he has done for the other 75% of his career so far.

Gunnarson would step in and be the best defensive d-man on the Oilers immediately (just like he is on the Leafs). Despite your statement that he is onyl a second pairing guy, he would almost certainly be playing top pairing minutes with Schultz unless they decided to go with Smid, but Gunnar would probably be a better fit.
He's no where close to Laddy Smid. Smid was actually a plus player on the Oilers and plays almost 3.5 minutes of PK per game. Shall we bring up that Smid is more physical, better shot blocker, doesnt cough up the puck as much, and has similar points despite virtually not having any PP time?

Despite Hemsky being made of glass and having his worse season since the last lock out he still put up better numbers than Kulemin

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:29 PM
  #42
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Lol no. Edmonton gives up the two best players and gives a pick?

NOPE

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:32 PM
  #43
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...Why would the Oilers do this?

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Old
01-16-2013, 03:00 PM
  #44
The Podium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
They just named Schultz and alternate captain and Hemsky no longer has to focus on being a leader on the team. Rather, he can just focus on putting up points on a line with Yakupov. His natural playmaking ability would probably gel better with Yakupov then Kulemin's game regardless of nationality. He could also be more of a mentor. Schultz on the other hand would probably be a better mentor to Justin then Gunnar. Not only that but they add a 2nd round pick in a draft year that could have some sick players in the later stages. Not saying the value isn't their but it doesnt make a whole lot of sense from a lockerroom perspective. I dont think any of these players strive in the other market. The Oilers need more defensive defencemen (Schultz not Gunnar) and more of a playmaker on the wing and not a goal scorer (Kulemin).
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Easy no for Edmonton, because it doesn't bring anything they need.

Nikolai Kulemin is a question, because he took a giant step backward last season and you don't know if his one 30G season was a fluke. Yes I know he's did well in the KHL, but he's always done well there, and the KHL is not the NHL. TO fans have flamed MPS for his one bad year, the same questions they asked about MPS can be asked about Kulemin.

IMO Carl Gunnarsson is a solid 2nd pairing D, but he's not a top pair D. N.Schultz is as good as Gunnarsson and Schultz is way better at the PK, he's also a great leader. The Oilers need Schultz to school J.Schultz and for his his superior D play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazinBruins View Post
I dont see why Edmonton would do this. Schultz is better than Gunnarsson and Hemsky is better than Kulemin. They are just older and Hemsky gets injured alot. With how young the Oilers are already I dont see why they would bother with this.
Its funny how you all say how much better Schultz is defensively when:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Carlyle prefers defensive forwards for his system, so Kulemin will bring a lot more at 30 points than Hemsky can at 50.

Defensively Gunnarsson is much better.

Gunnarsson had a higher

Corsi Rel QoC
Corsi QoC
Corsi Rel

Both Gunnarsson and Schultz had the lowest Offensive zone starts and GaOn/60 in relation to their respective teams.

Blocked Shots: Schultz 165, Gunnarsson 152
tells otherwise. Gunnarsson is easily the better player, 4 years younger and 2 million cheaper..... The value difference is substantial between them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
He's no where close to Laddy Smid. Smid was actually a plus player on the Oilers and plays almost 3.5 minutes of PK per game. Shall we bring up that Smid is more physical, better shot blocker, doesnt cough up the puck as much, and has similar points despite virtually not having any PP time?

Despite Hemsky being made of glass and having his worse season since the last lock out he still put up better numbers than Kulemin
Shot blocking is a marginal upgrade, 184-152, one is top 10 in the league the other top 20.

Although Gunnarsson has move give aways than Smid (again marginal difference), he also has more take aways as well (again marginal).

Both have similar Corsi Rel QoC (albeit Smids is slightly higher), similar Corsi QoC (albeit Gunnarssons is slightly higher), similar Corsi Rel (albeit Smids is slightly higher)

Gunnarsson has the lowest GA On/60 in respect to his team, while Smid is 3rd lowest.

Gunnarsson starts in the defensive zone much more often than Smid

Smid has roughly 70 more hits however that isnt Gunnarssons game

Gunnarsson also lead the leafs in PK time with just over 2:30/G

Total TOI/G: Gunnarsson has roughly a minute more

Gunnarsson is valued to Leaf fans like Smid is valued to Oiler fans. The difference between them is marginal defensively, however Smid is more physical while Gunnarsson provides more offence. Now factor in that Gunnarsson is making 1 mill less, and is 10 months younger. Would you trade Smid + a good defensive 2nd liner for nick schultz, Hemsky and a 2nd?

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Old
01-16-2013, 03:29 PM
  #45
vespa99
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
I'd love to hear your reasoning on why the Oilers pass on this deal.
Schultz is our second most reliable defenceman. We have more puck movers than shutdown guys so we cant really afford to move him.
Hemsky's value is at it lowest ever. If he stays healthy this year he would bring more than what is being proposed. Also he will probably get a ton of points this year with Nail finishing his passes. While the value is pretty fair at this point a healthy point a game Hemmer makes this trade a pretty bad deal for the Oil. Not to mention the draft pick.

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Old
01-16-2013, 03:32 PM
  #46
vespa99
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy?
There is no real life. Only the Matrix

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Old
01-16-2013, 03:46 PM
  #47
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Only oil players I would want is hall rnh or ebs. You can keep all the rest.

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Old
01-16-2013, 04:32 PM
  #48
Mystifo
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Originally Posted by vespa99 View Post
There is no real life. Only the Matrix
Was more a reference to Queen but I will take what I can get. Leafs are taking the blue pill Morpheus we will just take what we have.

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Old
01-16-2013, 04:35 PM
  #49
Gavy
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
What...? Are you serious?

1) There is much more to offense than scoring goals.
2) There is much more to hockey than scoring goals.
3) This is a terrible way to evaluate who's a good goal-scorer.
Exacty. There is much more to hockey scoring goals. Kulemin is better defensively, is more physical and can play a full season. So why would we want Hemsky over Kulemin?

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Old
01-16-2013, 04:36 PM
  #50
Joey Moss
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Oilers take this and run? Are you kidding?

I'd rather have Nick Schultz than Gunnarsson and I'd rather have Hemsky than Kulemin. I'm sure the Leafs fans have it the other way which is fine but trust me, the Oilers wouldn't do this.

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