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P.K Subban Thread 2.0

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:20 PM
  #626
14hockey14
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Just Sign the Kid

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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
continue here
I still personally find it ridiculous that we haven't sign a him to a long term deal it piss me off !

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01-16-2013, 02:20 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by e46330ivs View Post
I really dont care what a few Oilers fan say, their GM is not crazy enough to trade Eberle for Subban, so yes he's nuts, if im not mistaken he's not that far from ppg. in his first 2 seasons.
Based on their lineup and depth chart it would be a no brainer for them.

Eberle-Subban makes no sense for the Habs. Maybe if Diaz, Emelin Tinordi and Beaulieu make big strides in the next 18 months it could make sense.

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01-16-2013, 02:21 PM
  #628
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No one is bigger than the team.

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:21 PM
  #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Neither team would make that trade. Chicago can't afford to lose him and we can't lose Plekanec.
Plekanec doesn't have enough value to get Seabrook....

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01-16-2013, 02:22 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by ppil View Post
So what is the plan? Keep the same team that finished 28th last year and just pay those player higher salaries?
I don't see how signing Subban long-term and/or not signing Prust means you can't improve the team. There are many ways to improve a roster.

Hard to really improve when your best defenceman is not around though..................

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He had a need to address and this was the price he had to pay. That's how the UFA market works.

I understand that Prust won't make us a good team all of the sudden, but I fail to how this signing means that MB shouldn't stick to his philosophy when it comes to RFAs...
When as an organization you are busy shelling out big bucks on a long term to a UFA who slots somewhere between 15th and 20th on your roster, you set a precedent that anyone else has a case to get a long term...and then going to war with a top player on your team who wants to be here over term seems bizarre. Like habsfanatics said, as a GM you have to pick your battles. Bergevin decided to not battle on the Price front, as an example. Probably because he saw how tough it was in Chicago to get consistent high end goaltending and he knew Price being 2 years away from UFA had all kinds of leverage.

Some people here claim Bergevin is following a ''cap structure'' in these talks...well if that is the case, he started the structure off on the wrong foot by doing that Prust deal and as a result it's kind of ridiculous to suddenly talk about that structure suddenly needing to be respected in these Subban talks, who is probably the most important or the second most important skater on the roster.

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Montreal historically always had to overpay for UFAs and if we start to pay big bucks for our RFAs I really don't see how we can build a championship team in a salary cap world. It's not only about getting as many top performer as possible, but it's about fitting as much performance under the cap.
All the more reason why Subban signing the 5+ year deal he wants is smart. Just like it was smart to do it with Max Pac. You may overpay him in year 1 and 2, but he could be a steal on the cap by year 3 when you look at what he gives you in terms of performance, allowing you to survive an overpaid UFA signing or two.


Last edited by Marc the Habs Fan: 01-16-2013 at 02:36 PM.
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Old
01-16-2013, 02:23 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
When Price got his he was coming off a year where he lost his starting job to Halak.

Pacioretty got his after starting the year in the AHL.

Subban is in a considerably stronger bargaining position.
Ya and the team was terrible last year with Subban at the helm, he was no savior that's for sure. He might have been decent but he got 38 points while getting non stop PP time. If Bergevin has doubts about his skills they are there.

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01-16-2013, 02:24 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
Plekanec doesn't have enough value to get Seabrook....
The values are about the same. Seabrook is good but Plekanec does so many things for a team, ideal #2 on a cup winner.

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01-16-2013, 02:25 PM
  #633
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If the molson family is having trouble signing a star player and players don't want to play in Quebec what was the point of Molson buying the team?And what was the point of the lockout?

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:27 PM
  #634
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If the molson family is having trouble signing a star player and players don't want to play in Quebec what was the point of Molson buying the team?And what was the point of the lockout?
I don't follow the logic between PK and the Habs not yet coming to a contract agreement and Molson buying the team.

About players not wanting to play in Quebec, well, we've signed a fair amount of UFA's lately, so I think that myth can be laid to rest.

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:28 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Ya and the team was terrible last year with Subban at the helm, he was no savior that's for sure. He might have been decent but he got 38 points while getting non stop PP time. If Bergevin has doubts about his skills they are there.
Pointing to Subban for last year's failures is completely missing the boat.

Not saying he didn't have flaws, but I doubt Tavares is to blame for the Islanders struggles or Nash in Columbus or Eberle in Edmonton. Ridiculous logic.

Subban didn't do as well on the PP last year but that in big part was the crappy play and subsequent trade of Cammalleri who was a key PP performer. Last year's PP struggles mostly because the forwards did very little and the plan to pass to the point and shoot reletlessly was a big failure(right, Randy).

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01-16-2013, 02:29 PM
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The values are about the same. Seabrook is good but Plekanec does so many things for a team, ideal #2 on a cup winner.
I dare you to take this offer to the main board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thom View Post
If the molson family is having trouble signing a star player and players don't want to play in Quebec what was the point of Molson buying the team?And what was the point of the lockout?
and huh ?

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:31 PM
  #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thom View Post
If the molson family is having trouble signing a star player and players don't want to play in Quebec what was the point of Molson buying the team?And what was the point of the lockout?
Nominated for the __________ post of 2013 (you decide)

In a league with no salary cap, PK would've signed 1 year ago. And also wtf with the not wanting to play in qc statement?

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01-16-2013, 02:32 PM
  #638
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
I love it how the guys who were raging and calling the players greedy during the lockout are the same ones fighting for PK not signing for a little less than what he might be worth as a UFA.

If the "bridge" contract was good enough for Price it sure as hell is good enough for Subban.
After going through two threads, I'm baffled how people are still bringing up the bridge contract Price (or MaxPac) as if they are in the same situation. Those two guys were not coming off great years, and were still big question marks.

Also, the CBA and PK are two completely different situations. The people supporting a bigger deal to PK are saying that it'd be a good thing because you'll get him cheaper now than you would in two years, and he deserves more than what the other less talented players on the team are making. UFA or RFA changes nothing, when you speak of players that are on separate levels. I mean, some guys here are suggesting PK gets 500K more than Prust, do you realize how ridiculous this sounds?

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01-16-2013, 02:32 PM
  #639
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I am just going to put this out there.
Bergevin might have gone to Price and Patches and asked an important question. How would the players take it if MG gave Subban a long term contract. When no one else were offered this at their age. Would it create a huge closed door problem. well maybe it's not true but it sure is an elephant in the room.

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01-16-2013, 02:32 PM
  #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Pointing to Subban for last year's failures is completely missing the boat.

Not saying he didn't have flaws, but I doubt tavares is to blame for the Islanders struggles or Nash in Columbus or Eberle in Edmonton. Ridiculous logic.

Subban didn't do as well on the PP last year but that in big part was the crappy play and subsequent trade of Cammalleri who was a key PP performer. Last year's PP struggles mostly because the forwards did very little and the plan to pass to the point and shoot reletlessly was a big failure(right, Randy).
I didn't say it was all his fault but he was a key player on the habs and the team failed as a whole. After a huge transition and such a terrible performance last year no one on this team should be making ANY demands of management.

There are doubts about the teams structure and skillset, PK is not some golden god that carried the team on his back while everyone else lagged behind.

Edit: Remind me who was at the point blasting shots wide every 10 seconds?

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:34 PM
  #641
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Subban... Cole... Gomez...

What a tizzy around here.


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Old
01-16-2013, 02:38 PM
  #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
I am just going to put this out there.
Bergevin might have gone to Price and Patches and asked an important question. How would the players take it if MG gave Subban a long term contract. When no one else were offered this at their age. Would it create a huge closed door problem. well maybe it's not true but it sure is an elephant in the room.
I don't think players put nearly as much emphasis on what one another are making as the fans do.

Habs players (and any player in general) won't begrudge Subban for trying to get paid because they all know it could easily be them in that position someday. And after narrowly avoiding things like salary rollbacks like the NHL initially wanted, no NHL player is going to begrudge another for trying to get as much as they can while they can.

Just my hunch.

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01-16-2013, 02:39 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Ya and the team was terrible last year with Subban at the helm, he was no savior that's for sure. He might have been decent but he got 38 points while getting non stop PP time. If Bergevin has doubts about his skills they are there.
Name 10, 22 year old defenseman that played tougher minutes against opponents top players and put up better numbers.

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:40 PM
  #644
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
I can see you don't live in Quebec so i understand. But if you did in fact live here you would understand why he will NOT be traded.
The "you don't live here so you don't know as much as I do" card is not appreciated, and totally unnecessary. I never said he would be. I said that if offers were in fact coming in, you could be certain that Bergevin would at least be listening to them, that is all.

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:43 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by Matt19 View Post
The "you don't live here so you don't know as much as I do" card is not appreciated, and totally unnecessary. I never said he would be. I said that if offers were in fact coming in, you could be certain that Bergevin would at least be listening to them, that is all.
I will write this differently for you ok ?

If you lived in Quebec you would realize how big a commodity PK is to the Habs organization. His face is everywheres, and he is at the moment a bigger marketing tool than Price. Tell me, does this make more sense to you now ?

The card thing, i have no idea what you are talking about.

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01-16-2013, 02:43 PM
  #646
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I dare you to take this offer to the main board.
I could care less about the main board. I'm sure they would be shocked at Plekanec's trade value if he was on the market...and how the Habs wouldn't trade him(barring a ridiculous offer).

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01-16-2013, 02:43 PM
  #647
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
That's the risk PK and his agent are taking...just like the Habs are taking a risk if they don't sign him and lose the first 5 games.
I'm not a 'tank' kind of guy, but I'm also a realist. With our without PK I wouldn't consider us a contender for the cup this year imo. So PK can sit for awhile imo.

I think the East is very even after Pitts, Philly, Bos, and NYR. If we were one of those teams then PK would be signed asap imo.

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:47 PM
  #648
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Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
I'm not a 'tank' kind of guy, but I'm also a realist. With our without PK I wouldn't consider us a contender for the cup this year imo. So PK can sit for awhile imo.

I think the East is very even after Pitts, Philly, Bos, and NYR. If we were one of those teams then PK would be signed asap imo.
And last year did you think LA would win the SC ?

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01-16-2013, 02:50 PM
  #649
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And last year did you think LA would win the SC ?
Yes I liked them actually. They finished 8th but when they added Mike Richards in the off season I really liked their chances. And then when they added Carter at the deadline their chances improved greatly.

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:51 PM
  #650
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
I didn't say it was all his fault but he was a key player on the habs and the team failed as a whole. After a huge transition and such a terrible performance last year no one on this team should be making ANY demands of management.

There are doubts about the teams structure and skillset, PK is not some golden god that carried the team on his back while everyone else lagged behind.

Edit: Remind me who was at the point blasting shots wide every 10 seconds?
So because the team finished 28th, all UFA's and RFA's should all give Bergevin a blank chque to pay what he wants? Nice logic there.

You make it sound like people are saying he should get a ridiculous Crosby/Ovechkin contract. 5-5.5 mil/year is very reasonable on a 6-7-8 year deal, just look at the list of guys Meehan named. last I checked Edmonton hasn't lit the world on fire yet Eberle and Hall both got big deals...same with Skinner. Tavares got a big new contract and the Islanders suck.

You are off your rocker if you don't believe he was one of our top 5-6 players last year game in and game out. He was part of the solution, not the problem.

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