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Colorado Avalanche and Phoenix Coyotes

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:21 PM
  #1
jayminator
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Colorado Avalanche and Phoenix Coyotes

To Phoenix:

Ryan O'Reilly

To Colorado:

Keith Yandle


What's your guys take? Is it equal in value?

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01-16-2013, 02:29 PM
  #2
Benny FTW
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Oh wow. What an original idea.

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Old
01-16-2013, 02:30 PM
  #3
skip2mybordeleau
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this has been discussed in the 2nd line center to phx thread.


Last edited by skip2mybordeleau: 01-16-2013 at 03:03 PM.
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01-16-2013, 02:32 PM
  #4
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I think it might be good for both teams. I'd try to get more than Yandle if I could though. Avs need a solid d-man to play with Johnson.

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01-16-2013, 02:42 PM
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Sorry guys, haven't visited the site in awhile and didn't see it was already been talked about

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01-16-2013, 02:46 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Connolly2Duchene View Post
this has been discussed in the 2nd line center tp phx thread.
Let's be fair to the guy, look at the title of that thread? Doesn't mention the Avalanche anywhere, it actually mentions the rumor that it might be Lombardi to the 'Yotes.

A separate thread would be welcome to not have to sift through the Leafs/Coyotes stuff

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01-16-2013, 02:47 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by Mifroid View Post
I think it might be good for both teams. I'd try to get more than Yandle if I could though. Avs need a solid d-man to play with Johnson.
Uhh the deal is not fair value wise. Colorado would have to add. A 1-for-1 is not happening.

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01-16-2013, 02:48 PM
  #8
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Uhh the deal is not fair value wise. Colorado would have to add. A 1-for-1 is not happening.
Yep, Av's would be adding, not the other way around haha.

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01-16-2013, 02:52 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
Uhh the deal is not fair value wise. Colorado would have to add. A 1-for-1 is not happening.
While yes I do think Colorado would have to add, It wouldn't need to be serious piece. Could be anything from a 2nd round pick up to a fairly strong prospect, depending on how each GM views each player.

And on the OP... Yeah it would be nice to not have to sift through Leafs proposals (would be nice to never have to), I think most people have already voiced their opinion on the trade.

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01-16-2013, 02:53 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayminator View Post
To Phoenix:

Ryan O'Reilly

To Colorado:

Keith Yandle


What's your guys take? Is it equal in value?
As a Phoenix fan I would not make this trade.

At this point, I'm not interested in any realistic trade that includes any of Yandle, OEL, or Hanzal. We've got them under contract.

If a deal can be made for O'Reilly without the inclusion of any of those three names, it's certainly something I'd be interested in.

I made a counter proposal in another thread that I'm sure 75% of all Coyotes fans would be vehemently against because they believe we'd be giving up just too much. That deal included Brandon Gormley who is our number one prospect and arguably a top five D prospect in the world. A guy I consider to be a virtual lock for top-pairing NHL defenseman some day.

It also includes our best PKer in Boyd Gordon. A guy I honestly consider to be our most effective PKer in at least ten years. Probably somebody who can help make of for the loss of RO'R in two of the three zones on the ice. Obviously not in the same league offensively. A gamer who is decently young and basically turned our PK around single-handedly.

I also added a 2nd, which is as high as I can live with going on a pick because subtracting Gormley makes me incredibly nervous, and I'd feel the need to re-stock those prospect cupboards as quickly as possible. that next 1st round pick will be a big part of it, and I would have to hang onto it. Essentially the 2nd is payment in exchange for Colorado having to wait on Gormley.

I think Gormley, Gordon, and a 2nd for Ryan O'Reilly is one of those deals where the vast majority of Avs fans will insist it's not nearly enough and the vast majority of Yotes fans will insist that it is far too much. I suspect both franchises would side with their fan bases on that matter too.

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01-16-2013, 02:55 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
While yes I do think Colorado would have to add, It wouldn't need to be serious piece.
One is an established commodity signed for 4 more years. The other is a risk, albeit a talented one. Maloney has made it very clear that any team that wants Yandle will pay out the ass.

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01-16-2013, 02:57 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
As a Phoenix fan I would not make this trade.

At this point and time, I'm not interested in any realistic trade that includes any of Yandle, OEL, or Hanzal.

If a deal can be made for O'Reilly without the inclusion of any of those three names, it's certainly something I'd be interested in.

I made a counter proposal in another thread that I'm sure 75% of all Coyotes fans would be vehemently against because they believe we'd be giving up just too much. That deal included Brandon Gormley who is our number one prospect and arguably a top five D prospect in the world. A guy I consider to be a virtual lock for top-pairing NHL defenseman some day.

It also includes our best PKer in Boyd Gordon. A guy I honestly consider to be our most effective PKer in at least ten years. Probably somebody who can help make of for the loss of RO'R in two of the three zones on the ice. Obviously not in the same league offensively.

I also added a 2nd, which is as high as I can live with going on a pick because subtracting Gormley makes me incredibly nervous, and I'd feel the need to re-stock those prospect cupboards as quickly as possible. that next 1st round pick will be a big part of it, and I would have to hang onto it. Essentially the 2nd is payment in exchange for Colorado having to wait on Gormley.

I think Gormley, Gordon, and a 2nd for Ryan O'Reilly is one of those deals where the vast majority of Avs fans will insist it's not nearly enough and the vast majority of Yotes fans will insist that it is far too much. I suspect both franchises would side with their fan bases on that matter too.
The main problem with the trade involving futures + Gordon, is that Colorado is giving up a 'Now' type piece and a top 6 center is a SERIOUS piece. There is no way Colorado accepts a 'package' for a top 6 center without it being massive MASSIVE overpayment. Which would probably mean adding that 1st round pick, at the very least in order to make Colorado consider it.

Especially when nothing we are getting back is proven AT ALL, beyond a 3rd/4th line center. Gormley is a fantasy that has possibility, O'Reilly is real... Big difference there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
One is an established commodity signed for 4 more years. The other is a risk, albeit a talented one. Maloney has made it very clear that any team that wants Yandle will pay out the ass.
Anyone wanting a 21 year old franchise defensive center in the mold of Bergeron will have to pay out the ass as well.


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 01-16-2013 at 03:03 PM.
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Old
01-16-2013, 03:00 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
The main problem with the trade involving futures + Gordon, is that Colorado is giving up a 'Now' type piece and a top 6 center is a SERIOUS piece. There is no way Colorado accepts a 'package' for a top 6 center without it being massive MASSIVE overpayment. Which would probably mean adding that 1st round pick, at the very least in order to make Colorado consider it.
As far as adding more roster pieces and fewer futures, I just can't do it. Phoenix is in "now" mode much moreso than Colorado.

As for the other point, the 2nd to 1st pushes overall value (not considering "fit") too far in the other direction for my taste. Personally, I couldn't stomach it. That's just me. I'm sure 9/10 of my fellow Coyotes fans would agree on that.

(Before anyone says anything, I'm aware that our opinions as fans don't actually count. However, since our GMs don't have accounts here, there is no point in us discounting our own opinions if we are going to go through the trouble of discussing trades).

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01-16-2013, 03:00 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
The main problem with the trade involving futures + Gordon, is that Colorado is giving up a 'Now' type piece and a top 6 center is a SERIOUS piece. There is no way Colorado accepts a 'package' for a top 6 center without it being massive MASSIVE overpayment. Which would probably mean adding that 1st round pick, at the very least in order to make Colorado consider it.

Especially when nothing we are getting back is proven AT ALL, beyond a 3rd/4th line center. Gormley is a fantasy O'Reilly is real... Big difference there.


Ryan O'Reilly is a top 6 center in the KHL right now. In the NHL he is an unsigned RFA holding out after 1 good season. Temper your expectations. He's also a luxury for Colorado. If they were offered a solid package that contained a blue chip D, they should take it.

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01-16-2013, 03:05 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post


Ryan O'Reilly is a top 6 center in the KHL right now. In the NHL he is an unsigned RFA holding out after 1 good season. Temper your expectations. He's also a luxury for Colorado. If they were offered a solid package that contained a blue chip D, they should take it.
Not unless it contains a blue chip D who is at the least, ready to step into the NHL.

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01-16-2013, 03:06 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Not unless it contains a blue chip D who is at the least, ready to step into the NHL.
And Brandon Gormley isn't?

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01-16-2013, 03:06 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by XX View Post


Ryan O'Reilly is a top 6 center in the KHL right now. In the NHL he is an unsigned RFA holding out after 1 good season. Temper your expectations. He's also a luxury for Colorado. If they were offered a solid package that contained a blue chip D, they should take it.
You can't really blame Avs fans for not seeing that way. They want to win now and Gormley won't help them do that.

That said, I must agree with you that it at least appears ROR won't be helping them win, either.

I guess it boils down to whether or not they can find comparable value that does help them win now. Something based on PK Subban or Kulikov with a lot of extras leaving Colorado along with ROR.

EDIT: I suppose they could also let him play this season in Russia and start negotiations back up in the summer. The most he is going to miss is 48 games, after. Of course, the Turris fiasco seemed an eternity and only lasted half that time.

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01-16-2013, 03:08 PM
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They want to win now and Gormley won't help them do that.
http://avalanche.nhl.com/club/roster...ob&type=roster

Does that look like a 'win now' roster? No. And Gormley is plenty ready. I don't know what kind of timeline Avs fans think they are on, but it certainly isn't one short enough to brush off prospects that are ready this year or the next.

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01-16-2013, 03:11 PM
  #19
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And Brandon Gormley isn't?
No right now he is not. How do you know that he will stick?
Right now he is a prospect who has shown nothing in the NHL. ROR is one year older than him and has 3 great seasons (not 1 like you insist, he was an absolute stud his first 2 years defensively with crap wingers) in the NHL to show for it.

ROR has a lot of room to grow. We don't know where his ceiling is.
We know his floor though. Gormley has a high ceiling but could easily bust.

So if we are talking Gormley for ROR, I need at least a very good prospect and a 1st added.
Why so much? Because I can see PHX winning it all with ROR this year.
So I don't think a 1st holds that much value

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01-16-2013, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
http://avalanche.nhl.com/club/roster...ob&type=roster

Does that look like a 'win now' roster? No. And Gormley is plenty ready. I don't know what kind of timeline Avs fans think they are on, but it certainly isn't one short enough to brush off prospects that are ready this year or the next.
'Win Now' Does not mean 'Cup contender' but we do need to start taking steps in the right direction and building on last season, preferably by making the playoffs. Even if Colorado is a one and out team... The season will be considered a success and a building point.

If we don't improve on last year then the team isn't going in the right direction. Then at that point some serious changes may need to be made. But as of this season.... Yes we are legitimately trying to compete for a playoff spot and seeing how far we can go.

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01-16-2013, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
http://avalanche.nhl.com/club/roster...ob&type=roster

Does that look like a 'win now' roster? No. And Gormley is plenty ready. I don't know what kind of timeline Avs fans think they are on, but it certainly isn't one short enough to brush off prospects that are ready this year or the next.
It's pretty rare in these days of parity to find a fanbase that doesn't expect their team to make the post-season. It's a lot easier for you and I to discredit their chances, than it is for them to do the same to themselves. Especially given the on ice performance roller coaster the Avs have been the last handful of years.

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01-16-2013, 03:13 PM
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It's pretty rare in these days of parity to find a fanbase that doesn't expect their team to make the post-season. It's a lot easier for you and I to discredit their chances, than it is for them to do the same to themselves. Especially given the on ice performance roller coaster the Avs have been the last handful of years.
Funny how that works, and how it's been happening every year to Phoenix no matter what huh?

Edit: Most people expected Colorado to be in the lottery last year... Hence all the craziness over the Varlamov trade. We are starting to become a team that is very underrated.

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01-16-2013, 03:16 PM
  #23
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Ryan O'Reilly is a top 6 center in the KHL right now. In the NHL he is an unsigned RFA holding out after 1 good season. Temper your expectations. He's also a luxury for Colorado. If they were offered a solid package that contained a blue chip D, they should take it.
Ryan O'Reilly led our team in points last year, and had the most ice time amongst forwards, and his line was our Top Line.

So I'm sorry if you don't see him as a Top-6 player, but facts are facts.

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01-16-2013, 03:17 PM
  #24
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No right now he is not. How do you know that he will stick? Right now he is a prospect who has shown nothing in the NHL.
He would be getting top 4 minutes on a weaker roster. Coyotes can afford to bring him along slowly, so they are. Ask anyone around hockey about him and you'd be hard pressed to find a hater. He is one of the best prospects out there right now. I'm not even sure why we are discussing his availability, because management is in love with him.

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ROR is one year older than him and has 3 great seasons (not 1 like you insist, he was an absolute stud his first 2 years defensively with crap wingers) in the NHL to show for it.
The Coyotes already have one of the better defensive centers in the game in Hanzal so they could really care less about his 'defense.' It's a nice plus, but we're talking about trading for a top 6 center here. That means offense. He has 1 solid season under his belt, offensively.

Quote:
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So if we are talking Gormley for ROR, I need at least a very good prospect and a 1st added.
Why so much? Because I can see PHX winning it all with ROR this year.
So I don't think a 1st holds that much value
That's a strange argument. But you don't get the equivalent of 3 first round picks for a temperamental holdout. All indications are that the relationship between the Avs and ROR has soured, and that he has no intention of coming back unless his demands are met. As talented a player as he is, no team is going to be trampling the weak and hurtling the dead to acquire him for a premium. It is what it is.

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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
If we don't improve on last year then the team isn't going in the right direction. Then at that point some serious changes may need to be made. But as of this season.... Yes we are legitimately trying to compete for a playoff spot and seeing how far we can go.
Gordon would be impactful on D and the PK. Gormley could step right in and log serious minutes. Shelter him if you want, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't think he is a surefire top pairing guy. Add in the pick and I'd say that's a sweet deal for an asset that isn't helping you make the playoffs for the foreseeable future.

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01-16-2013, 03:17 PM
  #25
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I look at the Coyotes' group of forwards this year (and even prior years) and wonder how they plan to be competitive, not to mention make the playoffs.

Bu they have somehow managed to do so for the past few seasons.

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