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Old
01-16-2013, 02:51 PM
  #651
Gunners CH
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
I will write this differently for you ok ?

If you lived in Quebec you would realize how big a commodity PK is to the Habs organization. His face is everywheres, and he is at the moment a bigger marketing tool than Price. Tell me, does this make more sense to you now ?

The card thing, i have no idea what you are talking about.
Fair enough, probably took it more personally than was intended. The "card" thing is just an expression.

All I was trying to suggest was that if you have an RFA holdout like this, it would seem a bit foolish to not at least entertain a trade as a possibility.

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01-16-2013, 02:54 PM
  #652
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Fair enough, probably took it more personally than was intended. The "card" thing is just an expression.

All I was trying to suggest was that if you have an RFA holdout like this, it would seem a bit foolish to not at least entertain a trade as a possibility.
And that's my point. There is no way he would lose face at the beginning of his term like that ( talking about MB ). He openly said on RDS less than 4 days ago " I WILL NOT TRADE PK "....Molson would not let him trade him, i am pretty sure about that.

Not to use the ethnic thing, but PK attracts many ethnies to hockey.

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01-16-2013, 02:55 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
I didn't say it was all his fault but he was a key player on the habs and the team failed as a whole. After a huge transition and such a terrible performance last year no one on this team should be making ANY demands of management.

There are doubts about the teams structure and skillset, PK is not some golden god that carried the team on his back while everyone else lagged behind.

Edit: Remind me who was at the point blasting shots wide every 10 seconds?
No, he's not a 'Golden God'...He just led the team in icetime and points from defensman, he also finished a +9 despite the team being a bad even strength team and he did so not while hidden on the 3rd pair playing vs other teams 4th lines...he did so while playing vs the BEST the opposition had to offer on a NIGHTLY BASIS

The coaching staff used him IN ALL situations last year as their #1 option...but now that it's time to pay up, they want to pay him like he's their 4th or 5th dman?

Hmm...he may not deserve Doughty money...but he does deserve to get a significant raise

The organization is sending a mixed message if you ask me.

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01-16-2013, 03:00 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Name 10, 22 year old defenseman that played tougher minutes against opponents top players and put up better numbers.
There aren't many...which is why I find it ludicrous that people say he hasn't proven anything.

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01-16-2013, 03:00 PM
  #655
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If he wants a long term deal then do it, potentially he can become the best d-man in the NHL.

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01-16-2013, 03:05 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
No, he's not a 'Golden God'...He just led the team in icetime and points from defensman, he also finished a +9 despite the team being a bad even strength team and he did so not while hidden on the 3rd pair playing vs other teams 4th lines...he did so while playing vs the BEST the opposition had to offer on a NIGHTLY BASIS

The coaching staff used him IN ALL situations last year as their #1 option...but now that it's time to pay up, they want to pay him like he's their 4th or 5th dman?

Hmm...he may not deserve Doughty money...but he does deserve to get a significant raise

The organization is sending a mixed message if you ask me.
I know, Gorges is a heck of a partner to cover your ass every night. If you want to see a guy who shows leadership quality and who is deserving of a raise it is him.

Gorges has never been a primadonna, he does what is best for the team. Shame that hasn't rubbed off on PK yet.

Ofcourse he deserves a raise but he doesn't deserve Doughty money and he really doesn't deserve to push management into a corner where they now have to make a move that could jeopardize this teams future.

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Old
01-16-2013, 03:09 PM
  #657
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He should be in Markov's ball park. Nough said and get back to hockey, sign him for 5-6-7 years.

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01-16-2013, 03:10 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
I know, Gorges is a heck of a partner to cover your ass every night. If you want to see a guy who shows leadership quality and who is deserving of a raise it is him.

Gorges has never been a primadonna, he does what is best for the team. Shame that hasn't rubbed off on PK yet.

Ofcourse he deserves a raise but he doesn't deserve Doughty money and he really doesn't deserve to push management into a corner where they now have to make a move that could jeopardize this teams future.
Give me a break...that's complete non-sense

If PK couldn't handle the defensive side of the game, why the hell would TWO seperate coaches continue to use him as one half of their shut down pair?

Nevermind that, why would they CONTINUE to use him on the PK even though most teams often split up their pairs when it comes to special teams?

If you really think Josh Gorges carried PK defensively, then i'm convinced you didn't watch any Habs games

(I supposed Hal Gill was the one carrying PK the year prior too?)

Hmmm...the Habs keep using PK as one half of their shutdown duo, despite him being bad defensively as you seem to indicate.

Yeah...that makes total sense

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01-16-2013, 03:12 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
There aren't many...which is why I find it ludicrous that people say he hasn't proven anything.
To be honest, I really wish we'd know more. Is management really looking at a 2year deal worth an insulting 3M? Is PK really asking for close to 56M in total value like Doughty's deal? What is really going on?
I really don't understand the strong stance against your best player. It makes zero sense to me. Even if you really do have a structure in place for contracts and raises, it wouldn't be realistic to think no exception will ever occur.
It's not like your structure would just crumble if you made an exception and paid PK a bigger deal off his ELC. Guys like PK are rare, it's not like Collberg can come here, play like Eller has, and then see that PK got 6y at 6M, and so demand the same.
And if we have another player who's actually worth making an exception a la PK, then it'll be because he'll have proven himself to be a very very valuable and good young player.

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01-16-2013, 03:15 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
I won't respond to you know a big analysis because i'm at work and on my cellphone but let just say i'm very sceptical about giving him a long contract yet... Okay if he wants a 8yrs deal at (4M$) I would consider it but over that he could become an albatross and untradable.
Consider it? lol. 4million has a better chance of being the league minimum in 8 years than it does the value of PK Subban.

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01-16-2013, 03:17 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by e46330ivs View Post
are you nuts, not sure if serious...... did you see how many goals Eberle scored last year, and you must of forgotten about Skinner's calder trophy year, I would trade PK for either one of those guys and then try to land a bigger fish.
You are nuts. I wouldn't trade Subban for either one of these guys.

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01-16-2013, 03:19 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Give me a break...that's complete non-sense

If PK couldn't handle the defensive side of the game, why the hell would TWO seperate coaches continue to use him as one half of their shut down pair?

Nevermind that, why would they CONTINUE to use him on the PK even though most teams often split up their pairs when it comes to special teams?

If you really think Josh Gorges carried PK defensively, then i'm convinced you didn't watch any Habs games

(I supposed Hal Gill was the one carrying PK the year prior too?)

Hmmm...the Habs keep using PK as one half of their shutdown duo, despite him being bad defensively as you seem to indicate.

Yeah...that makes total sense
Ya Gill and Gorges aren't well known for their defensive abilities. Gill especially isn't well known as a PK specialist. I guess in your world Komisareck was the one making Markov look good all those years too.

We can't really argue who is in the wrong until we know what the contract amount is and the length. Ofcourse if Bergevin is asking for 3million that is not enough, but 4 million to 5million is and if PK wants more he might find himself on another team.

I didn't say he was bad defensively, I just didn't say he was incredible.

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Old
01-16-2013, 03:20 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
I love it how the guys who were raging and calling the players greedy during the lockout are the same ones fighting for PK not signing for a little less than what he might be worth as a UFA.

If the "bridge" contract was good enough for Price it sure as hell is good enough for Subban.
Prove it? The habs fan base is large and has varying opinions. This negotiation has nothing comparable to the lockout.

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01-16-2013, 03:21 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
You are nuts. I wouldn't trade Subban for either one of these guys.
This thread have really shown me that PK is a lot more underrated than my previous idea that he'd be overrated.

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01-16-2013, 03:24 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
We can't really argue who is in the wrong until we know what the contract amount is and the length. Ofcourse if Bergevin is asking for 3million that is not enough, but 4 million to 5million is and if PK wants more he might find himself on another team.

I didn't say he was bad defensively, I just didn't say he was incredible.
But if you're willing to give 5M to this kid, and saying it's enough, would it really be worth getting rid of him just because he wants an extra .500K or even 1M?

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01-16-2013, 03:25 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
I am just going to put this out there.
Bergevin might have gone to Price and Patches and asked an important question. How would the players take it if MG gave Subban a long term contract. When no one else were offered this at their age. Would it create a huge closed door problem. well maybe it's not true but it sure is an elephant in the room.
Silly imo. I think Patches and especially Price would love to have PK signed long term.

I think we tend to look for things that aren't there on these boards.

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01-16-2013, 03:25 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Ya Gill and Gorges aren't well known for their defensive abilities. Gill especially isn't well known as a PK specialist. I guess in your world Komisareck was the one making Markov look good all those years too.

We can't really argue who is in the wrong until we know what the contract amount is and the length. Ofcourse if Bergevin is asking for 3million that is not enough, but 4 million to 5million is and if PK wants more he might find himself on another team.
Ridiculous...i'm not even going to address the comment you made about Gorges carrying PK defensively. It's one of the most ridiculous things i've ever read here.

As for the last part...no, we can't argue who is wrong because no one is wrong. Each side is well within their right to determine their own valuation, there's no wrong in that.

Who knows, maybe they're offering a 2 yr 6M deal...in which case he's well within right to hold out, just like he might be wanting Doughty money, in which case the organization is entirely right.

What does all this mean? It means until the deal is finalized, dumping on Subban is completely uncalled for. All we've heard so far is rumors as to what he wants...and excuse me, but rumors in Montreal tend to take on a life of their own

I expect Subban to come in around 5M to 5.5M if he signs a long term deal...and that's more than fair if you consider his standing on the team, comparables around the NHL and his value to this organization.

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Old
01-16-2013, 03:29 PM
  #668
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
I know, Gorges is a heck of a partner to cover your ass every night. If you want to see a guy who shows leadership quality and who is deserving of a raise it is him.

Gorges has never been a primadonna, he does what is best for the team. Shame that hasn't rubbed off on PK yet.

Ofcourse he deserves a raise but he doesn't deserve Doughty money and he really doesn't deserve to push management into a corner where they now have to make a move that could jeopardize this teams future.
Gorges wishes he was half the player PK is. Gorges is a great guy to have, no argument here, but his skillset is very limited. Take a look at PK's GA/60min on the penalty Kill compared to Gorges and Gill. You'll find part of the answer.

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01-16-2013, 03:31 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Ridiculous...i'm not even going to address the comment you made about Gorges carrying PK defensively. It's one of the most ridiculous things i've ever read here.

As for the last part...no, we can't argue who is wrong because no one is wrong. Each side is well within their right to determine their own valuation, there's no wrong in that.

Who knows, maybe they're offering a 2 yr 6M deal...in which case he's well within right to hold out, just like he might be wanting Doughty money, in which case the organization is entirely right.

What does all this mean? It means until the deal is finalized, dumping on Subban is completely uncalled for. All we've heard so far is rumors as to what he wants...and excuse me, but rumors in Montreal tend to take on a life of their own

I expect Subban to come in around 5M to 5.5M if he signs a long term deal...and that's more than fair if you consider his standing on the team, comparables around the NHL and his value to this organization.
Ofcourse one side could be wrong, if the evaluation is too high or low depending on league value you are wrong. It's not a matter of opinion.

Subban should come in under 5, he is not that valuable yet and should follow the lead of Price and Pacioretty in taking a 2 year contract.

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01-16-2013, 03:32 PM
  #670
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In the new NHL, you pay based on potential not past deeds....PK has the potential.

Lock him up long term and solidify the core that is in place.

Not only that....PK bleeds, bleu, blanc et rouge, this should be a no brainer.....I really hope he's in the lineup Saturday night or I"m gonna be really pissed off.

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01-16-2013, 03:34 PM
  #671
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If he wants 4-5mil, I'm totally fine with that. If it was much over 5 and I'll have to consider. Still, hope he gets signed for a longish contract. Sorry don't like contracts that are like 7+ years.

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01-16-2013, 03:35 PM
  #672
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Originally Posted by Nashy View Post
In the new NHL, you pay based on potential not past deeds....PK has the potential.

Lock him up long term and solidify the core that is in place.

Not only that....PK bleeds, bleu, blanc et rouge, this should be a no brainer.....I really hope he's in the lineup Saturday night or I"m gonna be really pissed off.
I think it's too late for him starting on Saturday, he might not even be signed by then if ever. Really a sad development after all the lock-out BS.

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01-16-2013, 03:38 PM
  #673
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Though I don't think he should get Doughty dough, I do think it's important that PK gets back to work ASAP and starts the season on time. Is it worth giving him 6 + mil/season? Of course not, but for all considered, it might be in MB's best interest to lock him up long-term. If he was going to take a 2-year deal, he would've taken it by now. So fine - go the other way: buy up as many UFA years as you can at, let's say, $5-5.5 mil/season.
For the sake of argument, let's say 7 years, $36.75 mil. That way, you end the stalemate, PK gets what he wants (a long-term deal) and it's not an un-tradeable contract.
Every GM at one point or another ends up paying more than he'd like. I think it's damage control at this point.

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01-16-2013, 03:39 PM
  #674
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Originally Posted by Nashy View Post
In the new NHL, you pay based on potential not past deeds....PK has the potential.

Lock him up long term and solidify the core that is in place.

Not only that....PK bleeds, bleu, blanc et rouge, this should be a no brainer.....I really hope he's in the lineup Saturday night or I"m gonna be really pissed off.
You should start to be pissed off right now because PK won't be in the line up Saturday . The guy is not signed yet and had no training camp. Even if he would sign tomorrow or Friday, he would not play.

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01-16-2013, 03:41 PM
  #675
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
You are nuts. I wouldn't trade Subban for either one of these guys.
its not my fault you only watch habs games, and base your opinion on other habs fans opinions.

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