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How does your league weed out ringers?

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01-16-2013, 11:08 AM
  #76
JR97
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Our league basically says you can play up/down one level to your skill level. The issue is that the difference in range of skill level between leagues can be substantial the lower you go. So D1 guys playing in D2 isn't as drastic as D3 guys playing in D4. Right now D4 is full of D3 guys. Even to the effect that this year the consensus across the league is that the average team skill level in D4 is higher than D3 since so many of the D4 teams brought in D3 guys and D3 got diluted a bit.

My team is the only team that hasn't made any roster changes in about 5 years. We used to be in the top 25% of the league. We've been dead last 2 seasons in a row now. This season we have 1 freaking win. We've talked about bring in some of our D3 buddies, but we don't want to encourage the trend.

The summer league we played in was pretty good for the most part about enforcing skill level. Our first season out there we ran the table but none of the games were blow-outs and a good chunk of them were come from behind wins. Winning the championship automatically moved us up a level where we finished with 1 or 2 wins a few ties and were in last place. We were allowed to move back down a level where we ran the table again but this time a bit more substantially and we were threatened with action towards our top skaters.

The thing though, was that our top skaters weren't even in the top 5 point scorers on our team and our top scorers weren't even in the top 10 for the league. Our best player skill wise ended the season with only 2 or 3 goals. The difference was as a team we were better than the field. We were also the only team with more than 1 female and we typically carried 4 or 5 females on the roster.

When we moved up a level again we didn't even win a game. We were told we wouldn't be allowed to move back down unless we got rid of 3-4 guys. So basically we were being punished for team work and not ringer skill.

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01-16-2013, 11:56 AM
  #77
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In Edmonton, there is a league that says a player has to have a minimum number of games to play in the playoffs. (So ringer subs not apply for playoffs)

Secondly they do two reseeds during the season moving teams up and down divisions based on GF/GA, Win/Loss. They move a team and then put them at the mean average points of the new division giving them a shot at the playoffs regardless of what division they came from.

Teams require jerseys with namebars and sign in sheets to determine GP. (Both home and away)

As far as I can tell it is the most succinct league in monitoring competition. (Although it isn't easy with 12 divisions and 80 teams)

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01-16-2013, 12:55 PM
  #78
Jarick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR97 View Post
When we moved up a level again we didn't even win a game. We were told we wouldn't be allowed to move back down unless we got rid of 3-4 guys. So basically we were being punished for team work and not ringer skill.
This is pretty much what happened to us. We might have had 1-2 players who were PPG or close, but nobody scoring 1.5-2 PPG. Nobody that was just flat out dominant.

Our league kept taking our top scorers because "we were winning too much", not because they were scoring too much.

And because a lot of those guys were friends of the team or struggled at higher levels, just about all of them have quit playing hockey or at least competitively. Which sucks because most of them are GREAT guys.

Oh yeah, our league, only the top four teams make the playoffs.

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01-16-2013, 01:32 PM
  #79
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I go to school at UND and our intramural system has been totally wrecked by ringers, so much so that this year I've stopped showing up to games. We have 3 Divisions, with D3 being the absolute lowest, for more beginner and non serious player. The D1 league is all ex MN high school kids who are really amazing players. The problem area is when the lower D1 and D2 kids band together, and start showing up randomly to play D3 games. Most of the D3 Captains let them sneak on the team because they want to win. This completely ruins the game for every other team in the league, and unfortunately, nobody does anything about it. Before each game a league official comes to check ID's, but all the ringers from D1 and D2 hide in the bathroom until the league guy goes away, then they come back and suit up. Its a joke watching guys who are trying to learn how to play hockey get setup to fail and hate the game because some guy who wants to feel like a jock is playing in a division where he can glide faster than everybody else can skate.

Im moving back to San Jose after I graduate this Spring and am hoping to play at Sharks Ice. Hopefully they have a better system of ranking and enforcing players.

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01-16-2013, 01:33 PM
  #80
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Forgot to add, nothing is more embarrassing than being on a team with a ringer. Whats the point of winning a game 9-1 when the person who scored 8 goals and had 1 assist had no business playing against that level of competition? Thats the reason I've stopped showing up for intramural games and have stuck to the ponds this year.

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01-16-2013, 01:48 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoopALoop View Post
Ringers have always been part of the game. There is always going to be someone better than you and your team.

Most leagues around here require 5-10 games played in the regular season to qualify for the playoffs, then during the playoffs having a photo ID to check in.

I mean, everyone wants to win in the regular season, but with every team making the playoffs regardless, does it really matter?


Also, in regards to blowing teams out. One of my teams this year started off the season on a really bad slump. By the time they re-tallied the divisions, all of our regular guys started to show up and we began to own our division by a large margin.

Sometimes the teams that end up blowing out the rest of your division aren't there by choice.

It's not about winning IMO... it's about the quality of the game ie. fun.

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01-16-2013, 02:28 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Fanned On It View Post
It's not about winning IMO... it's about the quality of the game ie. fun.
Great point.

Blowing out teams or getting blown out almost every night is not fun. Trying to play against guys who played very high level hockey is neat for a few shifts, not fun for 20 games. Especially paying big bucks.

I will (and have) played shinny or pickup with elite players...not competitive hockey though.

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01-16-2013, 02:30 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Fanned On It View Post
It's not about winning IMO... it's about the quality of the game ie. fun.
Which is fair enough. It's not very often around here that a team absolutely waxes the floor with everyone and isn't bumped up.

I can imagine it's frustrating for players, but as a goalie, I always look forward to those games as they're a higher challenge.

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01-16-2013, 02:41 PM
  #84
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Wouldn't it be easier for a goalie to adjust to better competition though? Once you adjust to the quicker/harder shots?

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01-16-2013, 03:04 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Wouldn't it be easier for a goalie to adjust to better competition though? Once you adjust to the quicker/harder shots?
I'd assume so. It gets tougher as you go up. Shots go from at you, to actually being aimed with force. But at the same time, I only need to cover a 6x4 area, not the 200ft of ice like player would have to cover.

I enjoy the jump, the games faster, shots are more frequent, and you have to be on your toes. Lower level div games have me standing still quite a bit as I wait for the puck carrier to make a decision. It really takes me out of the game at times.

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01-16-2013, 03:37 PM
  #86
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I could only imagine how much it would suck to play against beginners who can hardly even get the puck off the ice.

Sometime, I really want to try shooting against a college or pro goalie. Just to see how much different it is.

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01-16-2013, 03:47 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I could only imagine how much it would suck to play against beginners who can hardly even get the puck off the ice.

Sometime, I really want to try shooting against a college or pro goalie. Just to see how much different it is.
I'm sure it would put any "good" goalie you've come across to shame.

It's actually tougher for myself to read the lower level guys. You can never really get a good read on where they're trying to shoot the puck, (like it goes where they aim), they hold on to the puck for far to long and I easily over estimate the power/arc of their shot.

It's odd, but I do better against guys who are better, and do worse against low level guys.

It's probably the most frustrating thing for me as a goalie.

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01-16-2013, 04:45 PM
  #88
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Has anyone else noticed that ringers tend to be the most short tempered too? I play in the second to lowest level, and there are a lot of times when guys just accidentally fall down or can't quite control their stick. Everyone kind of knows that if you get tripped or run into, usually it's an accident, so no one gets too upset. But if a ringer who isn't used to the level of play gets tripped, they take it like a personal attack or think it was done on purpose. Just seems strange to play down in a beginners level, but then get upset when beginner mistakes are made.

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01-17-2013, 10:29 AM
  #89
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Most ringers I've known/seen are either super laid back and take it easy or are ultra high on themselves like they're a superstar.

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01-17-2013, 11:38 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by CoopALoop View Post
I'm sure it would put any "good" goalie you've come across to shame.

It's actually tougher for myself to read the lower level guys. You can never really get a good read on where they're trying to shoot the puck, (like it goes where they aim), they hold on to the puck for far to long and I easily over estimate the power/arc of their shot.

It's odd, but I do better against guys who are better, and do worse against low level guys.

It's probably the most frustrating thing for me as a goalie.

I've heard that from just about every goalie I've ever played with. The other thing I've quite a bit from goalies is that it can be harder to maintain focus when the game is so much slower and then bam... shot!

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01-17-2013, 12:40 PM
  #91
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I've heard that from just about every goalie I've ever played with. The other thing I've quite a bit from goalies is that it can be harder to maintain focus when the game is so much slower and then bam... shot!
It's the truth.

I prefer 35+ shot games than <20 shot games. Keeping the legs and mind active really help. Imagine sitting on the bench for 3 shifts then playing for a quick 30 second shift, then sitting again for 6-7 minutes. It's a mental position, the low level guys always make you think too much and it screws me up.

I always look so bad against bad players.

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01-17-2013, 01:41 PM
  #92
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I should add that I played in a mixed-level summer league (lots of fun, wide skill levels) and the "ringers" were a blast.

Because of the kill variance the league instituted a "Gretzky rule" where a single player could not get more than 3 goals per game. Any goals scored beyond that 3 would be counted for the OTHER team.

What it meant was that the really good guys would spend a lot of time passing/setting up plays etc. It is a lot of fun (as a total scrub) to be on the receiving end of a laser tape-to-tape pass.

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01-17-2013, 02:06 PM
  #93
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that's a nice way of handling it.
the last pick up game I played, there was a guy waaay out of everyone elses league. After a couple minutes, he realized it, and then spent the rest of the game trying to set people on his team up, and just give enough pressure to the other team to make them work hard. Very classy way to handle it, even if it might not have been what he was looking for when he walked in

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01-17-2013, 03:18 PM
  #94
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I'd love that rule for a summer league where there are fewer players and levels.

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01-17-2013, 03:19 PM
  #95
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that's a nice way of handling it.
the last pick up game I played, there was a guy waaay out of everyone elses league. After a couple minutes, he realized it, and then spent the rest of the game trying to set people on his team up, and just give enough pressure to the other team to make them work hard. Very classy way to handle it, even if it might not have been what he was looking for when he walked in
There are a couple of private drop-ins I hit where it's pretty much a 70/30 mix of D1-D2 guys and then the rest of us. Most of the D1-D2 guys are pretty cool about backing off on the pressure in the neutral zone and in their own end to give you a chance to handle the puck a little bit. But it is a drop-in and I guess a good excuse for them not to exert too much energy on D. But make no mistake about it, you fumble the puck and they're gone. In the offensive end you're pretty much at their mercy.

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01-18-2013, 12:47 PM
  #96
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that's a nice way of handling it.
the last pick up game I played, there was a guy waaay out of everyone elses league. After a couple minutes, he realized it, and then spent the rest of the game trying to set people on his team up, and just give enough pressure to the other team to make them work hard. Very classy way to handle it, even if it might not have been what he was looking for when he walked in
A lot of the really good guys I've spoken to actually get MORE out of the ice time by doing this. Stickhandling end to end doesn't build their skill-set any more than it already is - those skills are already built in.

However, it gives em a chance to practice those saucer passes through legs, or how to direct the flow of the game through careful puck placement/management, or whatever.

There are still lots of hotheads out there, but there's a definite difference in maturity.

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01-18-2013, 01:04 PM
  #97
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I'm an A/B level goalie. I played on an intercollegiate team (club level though, not NCAA) back in my younger days. I play mostly on a B-level team right now. If I sub down in a C/C- level it can actually be harder than playing on even an A team.

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I've heard that from just about every goalie I've ever played with. The other thing I've quite a bit from goalies is that it can be harder to maintain focus when the game is so much slower and then bam... shot!
That's part of it. Goaltending is a lot about timing and repetition.

A lot of C/C- level teams usually have a few B-level players mixed in or even occasionally an A-level ringer or two. So you spend a period and a half facing low to medium difficulty shots, and you start to acclimate. You don't have to react hard. In fact you can't. Then suddenly one of the A-level guys gets the puck and his shot comes just as fast as it usually does, but you've been facing slow shots all game. It's similar to why MLB hitters who easily hit 95-mph fastballs can be devastated by 75-mph changeups. If you are used to expecting one speed, it's hard to adjust right away. And if you do adjust, then you become susceptible to the fastball again.

Now imagine a standard zone cycle. At the A-level the passes are quick and crisp. The shots are pinpoint targeted. Puck is along the half boards. I see a player cutting through the slot. I know he's looking for a one-timer. Pass comes......I quickly leave my post, slide out to the optimal position at the top of the far side of the crease to cut down the angle, arrive just as the player receives the pass, one-time shot.....and great save!

Now I go down a level. I see a player cutting through the slot. I know he's looking for a one-timer. Pass comes......I quickly push off and leave my post, slide out to the optimal position at the top of the far side of the crease to cut down the angle, arrive just as the player receives the pass, and......he bobbles it, and bobbles it some more, and now he finally gains control of it, and now he's skating with the puck, and no one's stopping him because they're C level defenseman, and my momentum has carried me to the far side of the net, and now he just has an empty net to shoot at. It's frustrating.

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01-18-2013, 01:13 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
Now I go down a level. I see a player cutting through the slot. I know he's looking for a one-timer. Pass comes......I quickly push off and leave my post, slide out to the optimal position at the top of the far side of the crease to cut down the angle, arrive just as the player receives the pass, and......he bobbles it, and bobbles it some more, and now he finally gains control of it, and now he's skating with the puck, and no one's stopping him because they're C level defenseman, and my momentum has carried me to the far side of the net, and now he just has an empty net to shoot at. It's frustrating.
This man knows my pain. Thanks for the better explanation of it than I did.

I nice crisp blocking B-fly slide is useless if the player receiving the puck can't shoot in the first place.

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01-18-2013, 01:13 PM
  #99
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For me, one of the toughest things to deal with when I play down is the quality of defensemen.

When I play up a level, yes, the game is fast and the shooters talented, but so are the defensemen. The offense shoots quick, but it's partially because they don't have a lot of time to set up and think about it. The defenders will get on them quickly. Their mistakes are costly. I can come out and cut down the angles more because I can trust that my defenders will find open guys and eliminate them from the play.

The game becomes almost easier to read because I know what everybody is going to do or try to.

At the lower levels, even the puckhandler often doesn't know what he's going to do.

At the A level, an A-level forward will be neutralized by an A-level defender. At the C level, even a B level forward can have 3 defenders standing between him and the goal and then just walk through all of them and have an easy shot. Makes it hard to cut down the angle and set for a shot from the top of the faceoff circles when I know the guy can just skate it right in with relative ease or pass to the guy standing at the doorstep who would have no difficulty receiving a pass despite being double-covered.

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01-18-2013, 04:58 PM
  #100
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Couldn't agree more - I also played at the ACHA level, and it's so much easier to play A/B than it is to play C or lower.

There's never been a better fake put on a goaltender than a C-level skater who thinks he's going to roof the puck, and then fluffs on it.

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